Trouble downshifting to 1st

edub370 · 02-25-2013, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japanjay

It is so people that cant heel toe now can look like someone that learned how to drive a manual the right way. Some 45 year old women is going to be pulling into neiman marcus and sound like a circuit driver in the parking garage.... No different than the cars that have speakers that pump faux exhaust noise in the car and under the hood.... It is to help people drive, sort of like crutches for someone with a broke leg, helps them walk. It is never going to be as good a manual imput. Same reason why GTR engines are assembled by human hands and not robots.

But that is my .02

technology isn't a crutch. its an advancement. helping people to drive smoother and not have to heel toe on the street is nothing to look down upon. hell, one of the purest auto companies in the world (porsche) is switching over to SRM and pdk systems on most of their cars. times are changing man

Japanjay · 02-25-2013, 01:40 PM

I still stand behind the fact a machine will never be able to replicate a human response perfectly. Hence why exotic cars and even our own nissan skyline, the most important parts are all assembled by hand.

It is a option that one brand started, majority of the community liked it because heel toe was something that they didnt want to spend years perfecting and practicing. Now other makers are following suit. And this is only my .02 on the SRM on the 6spd. No comment on the 7spd. It is an option to help you, but doesnt mean it is better than doing it yourself. I am not bashing the people that use it be any means nor looking down upon them, just stating my dislike for the way the systems operates in my car. I have turned it on maybe a total of 3 times in the 20k miles I have driven. Each time was to give it another shot, and each time I turned it back off due to the feeling I got from it when driving it. Some might not notice it, but I do.

I am a manual transmission purist. Been solely driving a manual for going on 16 yrs. I heel toe in any car I get in, just second nature now. Just the way my feet move, I dont even notice it. I have friends ride with me and as we are coming to a stop I am downshifting and after a few mintues they always ask what I am doing with the car to make it downshift like that. Even friends that have modified cars comment about how I am doing that. It is something that is kinda hard to get the grasp of, but once you do it becomes second nature. I will state that when someone is trying it out or practicing it, it can be entertaining to watch.

SS_Firehawk · 02-25-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japanjay

I still stand behind the fact a machine will never be able to replicate a human response perfectly. Hence why exotic cars and even our own nissan skyline, the most important parts are all assembled by hand.

It is a option that one brand started, majority of the community liked it because heel toe was something that they didnt want to spend years perfecting and practicing. Now other makers are following suit. And this is only my .02 on the SRM on the 6spd. No comment on the 7spd.

I am a manual transmission purist. Been solely driving a manual for going on 16 yrs.

I'll respectfully disagree with the latter statement about SRM. It's not because no one wanted so spend the time to learn it. The benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Smoother engagements on up and down shifts mean longer life on drivetrain parts. Money back in the manufacturer's pocket. Not only that, it's a definite safety feature on a missed shift, the car won't rapidly change wheel speed when it's engaged. And most importantly for us who have it, it's one less thing to think about it when playing track warrior on the weekends. More time focused on brake points, hitting the apex and your immediate surroundings. For gentlemen such as yourself, turn it off. I'm pretty sure most women who happen to somehow find themselves in a SP Z or Nismo won't be downshifting when coming to a stop, they will most likely just press the clutch in and either put it in 1st or neutral when at a stop.

cheshirecat · 02-25-2013, 01:53 PM

IMO, the 370z transmission does not like being thrown into 1st at anything higher than 10 miles an hour.

I personally won't shift into first at anything faster than 5 or so- I treat it just as a very short gear to get the car moving and keep clutch wear down as opposed to starting in 2nd and possibly overfeathering the clutch.

Japanjay · 02-25-2013, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I'll respectfully disagree with the latter statement about SRM. It's not because no one wanted so spend the time to learn it. The benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. Smoother engagements on up and down shifts mean longer life on drivetrain parts. Money back in the manufacturer's pocket. Not only that, it's a definite safety feature on a missed shift, the car won't rapidly change wheel speed when it's engaged. And most importantly for us who have it, it's one less thing to think about it when playing track warrior on the weekends. More time focused on brake points, hitting the apex and your immediate surroundings. For gentlemen such as yourself, turn it off. I'm pretty sure most women who happen to somehow find themselves in a SP Z or Nismo won't be downshifting when coming to a stop, they will most likely just press the clutch in and either put it in 1st or neutral when at a stop.

Tracking you car means any damage done shouldnt be covered under warranty. But none of us will openly admit we are doing that.

SRM is just a feature. If it was meant to prevent damage and what not and if that was its sole purpose then why have the option to turn off or on. The 7at downshifts no different when referencing the rpms at which you drop down into. And they have no option on that, all computer controled. When you get good at it, it is just second nature, you dont even think, just react. I am still trying to get the left foot braking down, that is not something I try on the streets. Been known to jab and not press.

When you get good at doing it yourself, you will find the flaws. Even humans mess up sometimes though.

SS_Firehawk · 02-25-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japanjay

Tracking you car means any damage done shouldnt be covered under warranty. But none of us will openly admit we are doing that.

SRM is just a feature. If it was meant to prevent damage and what not and if that was its sole purpose then why have the option to turn off or on. The 7at downshifts no different when referencing the rpms at which you drop down into. And they have no option on that, all computer controled. When you get good at it, it is just second nature, you dont even think, just react. I am still trying to get the left foot braking down, that is not something I try on the streets. Been known to jab and not press.

When you get good at doing it yourself, you will find the flaws. Even humans mess up sometimes though.

I was only referring to on road performance except my last comment regarding warranties. I definitely understand where you are getting at. Being Military, we train until it's muscle memory. SRM doesn't always like to engage 1st, but in every other gear, even a race car driver will fail more times than SRM. Every notable magazine has said this. When watching video's, almost every one I've seen has the driver using SRM. Yes it's still considered a novelty, but I see it as being the standard every manufacturer moves to now that it's been proven to enhance the experience for most. Be happy ours is defeatable

The Cayman M6 is always on.

Japanjay · 02-25-2013, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I was only referring to on road performance except my last comment regarding warranties. I definitely understand where you are getting at. Being Military, we train until it's muscle memory. SRM doesn't always like to engage 1st, but in every other gear, even a race car driver will fail more times than SRM. Every notable magazine has said this. When watching video's, almost every one I've seen has the driver using SRM. Yes it's still considered a novelty, but I see it as being the standard every manufacturer moves to now that it's been proven to enhance the experience for most. Be happy ours is defeatable

The Cayman M6 is always on.

I wouldnt buy a car that controls everything, if it is going to be my "fun" car. That is one thing I like about ours. I can almost turn everything off. Hence why I would love to get a viper. And cars that are truely oriented and marketed at being a track car are using dual clutch set-ups now. I want a three pedal config with nothing else. I am not looking to make a lively hood of racing nor even get some trophy. I just plain ole enjoy driving a manual. Wont have it any other way. In heavy stop and go traffic or cruising down the hwy. I had my friend drive my other car home the other day, it has a 6 puck unsprung CC clutch with a 7.5lb fidanza flywheel. I shed like almost 35lbs just at the transmission housing. That thing is narly to drive, but once you get use to it, smooth as butter. He was like HOW THE **** DO YOU DRIVE THIS AROUND TOWN?

edub370 · 02-25-2013, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japanjay

I still stand behind the fact a machine will never be able to replicate a human response perfectly. Hence why exotic cars and even our own nissan skyline, the most important parts are all assembled by hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japanjay

I wouldnt buy a car that controls everything, if it is going to be my "fun" car.

IMO the 2 statements above contradict each other. u can't say u want the ultimate man/machine interaction, then use the GTR as an example.

i kinda feel like your argument went full circle in those 2 statements

I believe a machine can do a simple task, such as torquing a bolt to a certain spec, as precisely (if not more) than a man.sucks to say, but its true. and when an engine builder assembles something, does he not count on electronics (such as digital torque wrenches) to complete his task?

bfowlzr33 · 02-25-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

I like the way you think

I'm certainly no expert, but I'll clarify my thoughts a bit:

If you're having the problem trying to shift into first while moving, then that's probably something you can avoid altogether by just not doing it. Second gear should be sufficient unless maybe going uphill very slow. If you're sitting at a stoplight and you can't put it in first gear, that sounds like your synchros, which is something I would address sooner rather than later. How many miles are on the car?

ive just rolled over 60k

bfowlzr33 · 02-25-2013, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheshirecat

The issue is that there wasn't a problem before the fluid change- now there is.

dont know if thats exactly the issue or not, but either way ive had this problem in the past every so often even before i switched to redline. like i said its not something that is bothering me too much or going to ruin the tranny or anything i was just curious about this since its been more common lately. i was wondering if anyone else was having the same problem with higher milage, but some people want to pretty much say i dont know how to drive so whatever. im stationed in ms right now so it doesnt get too cold maybe like 35 at the lowest. so im not sure

bfowlzr33 · 02-25-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edub370

Dude why are u doing that?? Why do u think car manufacturers make transmissions that don't allow that? just cuz its fun to do? If u shift into first at anything other than stop, u are driving a manual wrong.

Listen, i love the 370. Clearly, i bought one. but I'm also not delusional. If u think this MT couldn't use a little work (a corvette isn't exactly the industry standard in tranismissions either) then u are drinking the kool-aid a little too much. go drive ANY manual... try sticking it in first at 15mph then report back,

And burnouts don't kill synchros. jamming into first at speed does.

( Click to show/hide )

ok man chill out unless you are a pro

im not downshifting to first while im going 15 - 20 miles per our, not even 10 or 5. im holding in the clutch while barely moving almost at a complete stop. even when im sitting there at a stop sign (not moving) sometimes it has trouble going into first unless i work it a little bit. thanks for sharing how to drive a stick also, i had NO idea how to until now.

edub370 · 02-25-2013, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfowlzr33

thanks for sharing how to drive a stick also, i had NO idea how to until now.

I have no idea how to drive a stick either. i just move the lil knob around in the middle till something happens or it crunches (idk is that bad). that combined with blindly stabbing at the 3 little mystery peddles has seemed to work out so far

bfowlzr33 · 02-25-2013, 05:12 PM

really ...

TerribleONE · 02-25-2013, 05:15 PM

JARblue · 02-25-2013, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfowlzr33

ive just rolled over 60k

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfowlzr33

dont know if thats exactly the issue or not, but either way ive had this problem in the past every so often even before i switched to redline. like i said its not something that is bothering me too much or going to ruin the tranny or anything i was just curious about this since its been more common lately. i was wondering if anyone else was having the same problem with higher milage, but some people want to pretty much say i dont know how to drive so whatever. im stationed in ms right now so it doesnt get too cold maybe like 35 at the lowest. so im not sure

If you've been having it in the past, I sincerely doubt it's fluid related. Are these people claiming you don't know how to drive on the forum (in which case just ignore them) or riding with you in real life (they may have a point and you may be wearing your clutch out prematurely because of it). At 60K miles you shouldn't be looking to replace anything with your clutch unless it's maybe the OEM CSC.

02-25-2013, 01:40 PM	#32 (permalink)
Japanjay Track Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Puyallup Posts: 856 Drives: 09 Nissan 370z MB M6 Rep Power: 14	I still stand behind the fact a machine will never be able to replicate a human response perfectly. Hence why exotic cars and even our own nissan skyline, the most important parts are all assembled by hand. It is a option that one brand started, majority of the community liked it because heel toe was something that they didnt want to spend years perfecting and practicing. Now other makers are following suit. And this is only my .02 on the SRM on the 6spd. No comment on the 7spd. It is an option to help you, but doesnt mean it is better than doing it yourself. I am not bashing the people that use it be any means nor looking down upon them, just stating my dislike for the way the systems operates in my car. I have turned it on maybe a total of 3 times in the 20k miles I have driven. Each time was to give it another shot, and each time I turned it back off due to the feeling I got from it when driving it. Some might not notice it, but I do. I am a manual transmission purist. Been solely driving a manual for going on 16 yrs. I heel toe in any car I get in, just second nature now. Just the way my feet move, I dont even notice it. I have friends ride with me and as we are coming to a stop I am downshifting and after a few mintues they always ask what I am doing with the car to make it downshift like that. Even friends that have modified cars comment about how I am doing that. It is something that is kinda hard to get the grasp of, but once you do it becomes second nature. I will state that when someone is trying it out or practicing it, it can be entertaining to watch. Last edited by Japanjay; 02-25-2013 at 01:54 PM.

02-25-2013, 05:15 PM	#44 (permalink)
TerribleONE A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Socal Posts: 10,203 Drives: WOT Rep Power: 5850	__________________ 638WHP 541WTQ @ 13.5PSI Build thread

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Downshifting bad?	ZKraken22	Engine & Drivetrain	26	11-19-2012 09:20 AM
Downshifting on 7at and not jolting	Cuda1337	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	36	07-24-2012 10:12 PM
Opinions on downshifting	SPOHN	Track / Autocross / Drifting / Dragstrip	32	03-07-2012 10:56 PM
downshifting	supraman626	Engine & Drivetrain	7	12-28-2009 01:53 PM
Having trouble picking a Z.. and having trouble with the manual	AceSpade77	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	12	08-04-2009 04:02 PM

02-25-2013, 01:53 PM	#34 (permalink)
cheshirecat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 1,428 Drives: N54 135i Rep Power: 292	IMO, the 370z transmission does not like being thrown into 1st at anything higher than 10 miles an hour. I personally won't shift into first at anything faster than 5 or so- I treat it just as a very short gear to get the car moving and keep clutch wear down as opposed to starting in 2nd and possibly overfeathering the clutch.