HH-O Hydromoving Technology

wheee! · 01-24-2013, 03:38 PM

First of all, this thread is for information regarding member lorenz1955's innovation in "Brown's Gas" technology. His website http://www.hydromoving.com is in Italian and he has asked me to help with a translated text of his website main info page.

Link to members gallery: http://www.the370z.com/members/loren...emissions.html

It is as follows:
(translation not perfect but feel free to go to the Italian version and retranslate if you like!)

Because the technology "HYDROMOVING" works ...

HHO technology, already known as "Brown's Gas", developed and patented by Lorenzo Errico, allows separation of the water molecules in a gas mixture of hydrogen and oxygen that quickly combusts at about 530° C with high pressure.

The already known method of producing “Brown’s Gas”, was significantly enhanced by Lorenzo with a new method of cell division, certified by the International Patent Office in Munich (Germany). Like all Class A inventions, it is devoid of any earlier trade marks worldwide. The system develops, a very low energy solution for separating of H2O molecules, and also greatly reduces electricity consumption, and consequently lower fuel consumption and emissions.

Supply of cars and Trucks in circulation, by scheduling the EURO 3 emission class EURO 6, with huge benefits for the environment, and dramatically reducing fuel expenses, of any kind it may be.

How to operate power turbines and engines with BIOGAS, certified reduction of TAR (byproduct of BIOGAS and natural GAS) eliminating all forms of CO, HC, NOx, SOx etc.

Lorenzo Errico has patented an innovative system to power the electrolysis of H2O (Pat N° TO2011A000404) and electronic fuel injection in Diesel and gasoline engine motors (Pat. N° TO2011A000400), according to the well-known principle "On-Demand" (HHO Gas production on-site at very low energy).

Thanks to these two patents, Lorenzo had the honour and the responsibility, first by the SOC. Marangoni, and later by Nissan Europe, to install and equip Hydromoving systems into two Nissan 370 Z, provided directly by the Japanese automaker known for system testing, certified by third party Entities, who left amazed with result, even the skeptics.

The results were obtained by following the Protocol tests imposed by Nissan Europe, power Tests prior to installing the system and consumption and emissions Tests before and after the installation of the system. In short, certified 30% less consumption and90 percent less emissions. The results are available in Pdf in the Test section.

Only the cogeneration market could be infinite certifying the consumption obtained in excess of 10%.

We have already achieved fuel consumption reduction from 8 to 15%. Imagine only deleting a filter, which would reduce the "particulate matter", as it is completely non-existent output, which would be in terms of saving money granted to the customer and end user "HYDROMOVING" technology, made available by Lorenzo.

The Hydromoving emissions from which water vapour emerges are: Hc-.007/CO 0-0, 013g/km

SouthArk370Z · 01-24-2013, 04:02 PM

Grabs a big tub of popcorn and sits back to watch the show

SPOHN · 01-24-2013, 04:10 PM

Sub

wheee! · 01-24-2013, 04:28 PM

This is definitely not a 'hi performance mod' that many of us would jump on, but it is definitely something unique being done to our platform that the inventor deserves credit for! Let's be positive guys!
In europe, fuel consumption and emissions are much more critical than here, this is innovative stuff!

ignore the Lambo doors.... it's Italy! Home of the Lamborghini!

SouthArk370Z · 01-24-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheee!

This is definitely not a 'hi performance mod' that many of us would jump on, but it is definitely something unique being done to our platform that the inventor deserves credit for! Let's be positive guys!
In europe, fuel consumption and emissions are much more critical than here, this is innovative stuff!

ignore the Lambo doors.... it's Italy! Home of the Lamborghini!

It's not unique (other than not being done on a 370Z) - snake oil salesmen have been promoting HHO/Brown's Gas for years. Like the little "turbos" that are inserted in the air inlet duct, HHO is pure hokum.
Yes, injecting H2 and O2 can have benefits. BUT, generating the gasses on the fly will result in a loss of power - you can't produce enough gas fast enough without large amount of power.
Google is your friend.

wheee! · 01-24-2013, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

It's not unique (other than not being done on a 370Z) - snake oil salesmen have been promoting HHO/Brown's Gas for years. Like the little "turbos" that are inserted in the air inlet duct, HHO is pure hokum.
Yes, injecting H2 and O2 can have benefits. BUT, generating the gasses on the fly will result in a loss of power - you can't produce enough gas fast enough without large amount of power.
Google is your friend.

No, it's not the first system ever designed, HOWEVER it is one that has received good reviews and proven performance. The current draw is 18A (if you took the time to look thru his album) and the system seems viable. Whether you want to compare it to an electric car that can only drive 200km is a whole different issue. This is experimental technology that MAY have applications in the near future.

No need to be a negative Nancy!....

DEpointfive0 · 01-24-2013, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

It's not unique (other than not being done on a 370Z) - snake oil salesmen have been promoting HHO/Brown's Gas for years. Like the little "turbos" that are inserted in the air inlet duct, HHO is pure hokum.
Yes, injecting H2 and O2 can have benefits. BUT, generating the gasses on the fly will result in a loss of power - you can't produce enough gas fast enough without large amount of power.
Google is your friend.

Agreed, this has been around SOOOOOO long, such bull, someone BOUGHT AND GAVE me a kit they had on their car because they thought it worked... Such bullshít I used it as an oil catch can... In fact, it was an oil catch can with different lines and electrical inputs

lorenz1955 · 01-25-2013, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Yes, injecting H2 and O2 can have benefits. BUT, generating the gasses on the fly will result in a loss of power - you can't produce enough gas fast enough without large amount of power.

Dear Friend,
this project, which I have been entrusted is a Nissan project.
The development of the project began in April 2010 and completed in September 2011. My thoughts on the benefits of HHO, are described on my website. The HHO , as is proposed by various professors on Ebay and other sites is an outlet for the bottoms.
The Hydromoving system works because it is supported by a project (Patent) which greatly reduces the energy used for the electrolytic dissociation itself ...That's why it can work on the cars.
Ask sellers worldwide to mount from 6 to 10 drycell on a car and put it into motion ... If you will.
The Hydromoving System, only works because it absorbs energy from the ridiculous car, comparable Amps amount to a very sophisticated stereo.
The tests carried out at the International(FIAT) Centers of European approval, can show whether the car in order to reduce consumption and emissions, is not overloaded by excessive current absorption.
In the results section of the site there is in pdf, which certifies the results of NEUDC tests cycles run on the car in question.
To be continued...
Best Regards
lorenz

DEpointfive0 · 01-25-2013, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorenz1955

Dear Friend,
this project, which I have been entrusted is a Nissan project.
The development of the project began in April 2010 and completed in September 2011. My thoughts on the benefits of HHO, are described on my website. The HHO , as is proposed by various professors on Ebay and other sites is an outlet for the bottoms.
The Hydromoving system works because it is supported by a project (Patent) which greatly reduces the energy used for the electrolytic dissociation itself ...That's why it can work on the cars.
Ask sellers worldwide to mount from 6 to 10 drycell on a car and put it into motion ... If you will.
The Hydromoving System, only works because it absorbs energy from the ridiculous car, comparable Amps amount to a very sophisticated stereo.
The tests carried out at the International(FIAT) Centers of European approval, can show whether the car in order to reduce consumption and emissions, is not overloaded by excessive current absorption.
In the results section of the site there is in pdf, which certifies the results of NEUDC tests cycles run on the car in question.
To be continued...
Best Regards
lorenz

Lorenz, I am so lost... And by the way, just because something is patented doesn't make it true, or valid
I think these systems work because the drivers WANT them to work and drive extra slow...

If you give me the price of one of these systems sent to 90275, in CA, I will make you a bet. I'll post/send footage of 10 days of average driving before and after installation.

If it works, and by works I mean give me MORE than 10% better gas mileage, and DOESN'T lose me any horsepower, I will pay for the system and advocate this as the greatest thing to have ever hit the forum. And I'll buy 2 more systems right off the bat for the other 2 cars at home

If it DOESN'T work, you pay for the install/uninstall and dyno runs, deal?

lorenz1955 · 01-25-2013, 03:57 AM

Dear Friend,
The Hydromoving System, don't you sell as a regular KIT ..this is a prototype, is a real system with two ECU controllers, injector rail, tanks, pressure controls, filters ... etc..and you need a week to it install.
Real tests need to be done at the Dyno runs with NEUDC Cycle ...to European standards ...for the USA , maybe USEPA... i don't know.
Second point:
The tests to verify the proper functioning of the system ... were written in protocol testing imposed by Nissan ...Fuel consumption, emissions and power ...Before and after.Can you see in my website
In order to facilitate reading data files, I will try to translate into English the most interesting pdf parts of the site.
The road test, performed by various journalists, by prof of some Italian universities, showed that: In Highway cruise cctrl active 140 Km/Hr, full of petrol, placed the device, the result were 19.2 Km trails with just one liter of gasoline.
These tests, reading the on-board instrumentation, while the logs on the Dyno, noted a consumption of 16, 7 km/liter in suburban location.
This is the second prototype which instructed me Nissan, to test the feasibility of the system ...about 370 Z cars and GTR ... is not a system for sale ... though seeing all the money i spent on it, I would like to create a new prototype that costs little and within reach of all budgets, or search for an investor in the USA, that ... testing the effectiveness of the system with US EPA or other, if it works, would like to import it and build it in USA.
Attention Please...very important...
... This is the description of a Nissan Europe project to make it known to fans .... and according to Nissan claimed that the car must be perfectly, and not a screw had to be replaced. Ban the reprogramming of the injection unit.
To be continued...
Many Thanks at all
Lorenz

wstar · 01-25-2013, 06:18 AM

Just some commentary from a science nerd who's seen way too many such things in his life...

First, if you're unfamiliar with the terminology being thrown about here, this is a good starter on what's basically going on here and that it's generally scientifically fraudulent:

Oxyhydrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most relevant sentence from there is:

Quote:

The most common and decisive counter-argument against producing this gas on board to use as a fuel or fuel additive is that the energy required to split water molecules exceeds the energy recouped by burning it.

However, it's pretty hard to shut down a project like this based on facts. It wouldn't surprise me if he could build an HHO-based system that did increase the MPG of a car very slightly in some standardized test. There are a lot of ridiculous inefficiencies in the design of a modern combustion-powered car that are difficult to eliminate. The most obvious is all the waste heat. Perhaps the guy is picking up his efficiency gains by using the waste heat pouring off the engine/exhaust to help reduce the electrical power needs for electrolysis? There's been legitimate research on that topic in the recent past, but the last one I heard about required temps in the 850C range to use heat to help power the splitting of water, so that one wasn't really appropriate for a car engine. Most legitimate research on any kind of waste-heat recovery system tends to report more like a 5-10% net gain in fuel efficiency, and almost none of those efforts involve using water electrolysis as a step in the process.

Just food for thought. My suspicions based on how these things usually turn out is that (1) He's exploiting an inefficiency like waste heat more than anything else, which is legitimate but doesn't legitimize the electrolysis part, (2) He probably can show a small gain on some test, but (3) It won't ever be a practical/viable system for real world use on a large scale, due to the cost of the technology, cost of some catalyst or wear-item component of the system, inability to provide enough gains to offset its own weight and manufacturing costs, etc.

But who knows, I could be wrong. You never know when the next seemingly-snake-oil guy has finally stumbled on something useful.

wheee! · 01-25-2013, 07:32 AM

Maybe I was off the mark thinking that this forum would support someone spending a lot of their own money and time researching and building an alternative system to improve the engine of our cars....

I didn't expect everyone to run out and buy a system, let alone be fanboi's, but I did expect that there would be support for someone thinking outside the box and having the stones and conviction to try and build it. It's people like Lorenz that help move our technology forward, either by discovering something incredible or proving it is non-viable. Either way, it's good for our future.

wstar · 01-25-2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheee!

Maybe I was off the mark thinking that this forum would support someone spending a lot of their own money and time researching and building an alternative system to improve the engine of our cars....

I didn't expect everyone to run out and buy a system, let alone be fanboi's, but I did expect that there would be support for someone thinking outside the box and having the stones and conviction to try and build it. It's people like Lorenz that help move our technology forward, either by discovering something incredible or proving it is non-viable. Either way, it's good for our future.

I did my best to bend over backwards to give the guy some credit above, but that's as far as I can go. The fact is that this does have the very distinct smell of pseudo-science snake-oil, and none of the list of Nissan and/or EU involvements really does much to change that. I fully support people thinking outside the box and moving technology forward. However, historically it's not people like Lorenz that help move our technology forward. Mostly what they do is defraud investors and fail to provide the world with any useful new science or engineering.

If you really want to go down the road of saying I'm being unfair, then perhaps I need to convince you a little more that I'm not:

Water4Gas HHO and Brown's gas are frauds and scams
Water powered car - RationalWiki
HHO is a scam: water for fuel doesn’t work, don’t fall for it. « Random musings from a heavily caffeinated computer business owner

I'm sure you can google more results for yourself. This sort of thing generally falls under the same category as the crackpots that pop up every few years pumping for investors in the latest "cold fusion" or perpetual motion machine scam. They defraud investors that might have used the money to invest in something actually useful.

Chuck33079 · 01-25-2013, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheee!

Maybe I was off the mark thinking that this forum would support someone spending a lot of their own money and time researching and building an alternative system to improve the engine of our cars....

I didn't expect everyone to run out and buy a system, let alone be fanboi's, but I did expect that there would be support for someone thinking outside the box and having the stones and conviction to try and build it. It's people like Lorenz that help move our technology forward, either by discovering something incredible or proving it is non-viable. Either way, it's good for our future.

Dude, it's complete ********. It's not good for anybody except the salesman. The only thing you're helping promote is misinformation. There would be support if the product weren't snake oil. Let me guess, it requires a turbonator and one of those magnets you put on your fuel line in order to work, right? Somehow I doubt Nissan just randomly called some guy in Italy to help them develop something like this. A company with millions of dollars in R&D budgets has to outsource development to some random dude in Italy? If he really had a solution, Nissan would put him on the payroll and release the details themselves.

lorenz1955 · 01-25-2013, 08:53 AM

Dear friends, I wanted to ask you to rest assured, nobody wants to come to smoke in the USA sell ... have enough snake oil to the USA, exactly those written by WSTAR, I so far I have received so much from Nissan Europe, Universities and I'm glad for this ...
The forum is helpful to share with you a project ..., having opinions, observations, I don't absolutely need investors, perhaps you misunderstood my thought ...
Best Regards
Lorenz

01-24-2013, 03:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
wheee! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Mod Capital of Canada Age: 57 Posts: 7,354 Drives: cars. lots of cars. Rep Power: 40181	HH-O Hydromoving Technology First of all, this thread is for information regarding member lorenz1955's innovation in "Brown's Gas" technology. His website http://www.hydromoving.com is in Italian and he has asked me to help with a translated text of his website main info page. Link to members gallery: http://www.the370z.com/members/loren...emissions.html It is as follows: (translation not perfect but feel free to go to the Italian version and retranslate if you like!) Because the technology "HYDROMOVING" works ... HHO technology, already known as "Brown's Gas", developed and patented by Lorenzo Errico, allows separation of the water molecules in a gas mixture of hydrogen and oxygen that quickly combusts at about 530° C with high pressure. The already known method of producing “Brown’s Gas”, was significantly enhanced by Lorenzo with a new method of cell division, certified by the International Patent Office in Munich (Germany). Like all Class A inventions, it is devoid of any earlier trade marks worldwide. The system develops, a very low energy solution for separating of H2O molecules, and also greatly reduces electricity consumption, and consequently lower fuel consumption and emissions. Supply of cars and Trucks in circulation, by scheduling the EURO 3 emission class EURO 6, with huge benefits for the environment, and dramatically reducing fuel expenses, of any kind it may be. How to operate power turbines and engines with BIOGAS, certified reduction of TAR (byproduct of BIOGAS and natural GAS) eliminating all forms of CO, HC, NOx, SOx etc. Lorenzo Errico has patented an innovative system to power the electrolysis of H2O (Pat N° TO2011A000404) and electronic fuel injection in Diesel and gasoline engine motors (Pat. N° TO2011A000400), according to the well-known principle "On-Demand" (HHO Gas production on-site at very low energy). Thanks to these two patents, Lorenzo had the honour and the responsibility, first by the SOC. Marangoni, and later by Nissan Europe, to install and equip Hydromoving systems into two Nissan 370 Z, provided directly by the Japanese automaker known for system testing, certified by third party Entities, who left amazed with result, even the skeptics. The results were obtained by following the Protocol tests imposed by Nissan Europe, power Tests prior to installing the system and consumption and emissions Tests before and after the installation of the system. In short, certified 30% less consumption and90 percent less emissions. The results are available in Pdf in the Test section. Only the cogeneration market could be infinite certifying the consumption obtained in excess of 10%. We have already achieved fuel consumption reduction from 8 to 15%. Imagine only deleting a filter, which would reduce the "particulate matter", as it is completely non-existent output, which would be in terms of saving money granted to the customer and end user "HYDROMOVING" technology, made available by Lorenzo. The Hydromoving emissions from which water vapour emerges are: Hc-.007/CO 0-0, 013g/km __________________ H&R / Stillen / Berk / HKS / Swift / Michelin / UpRev / SPC / Amuse Rep / Seibon / Fringe XVO / TWM / more... My Journal Last edited by wheee!; 01-24-2013 at 06:18 PM.

01-24-2013, 04:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
SouthArk370Z Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 8,435 Drives: 2014 Challenger Rep Power: 324197	Grabs a big tub of popcorn and sits back to watch the show Chuck33079 and DEpointfive0 like this. __________________ Steering Lock Links - Search The370Z Bookmarklet - FSM @ NICOclub Mankind has progressed past the need for war but we haven't evolved that far. - NachoMahma

01-24-2013, 04:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 45 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 221	Sub __________________

01-24-2013, 04:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
wheee! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Mod Capital of Canada Age: 57 Posts: 7,354 Drives: cars. lots of cars. Rep Power: 40181	This is definitely not a 'hi performance mod' that many of us would jump on, but it is definitely something unique being done to our platform that the inventor deserves credit for! Let's be positive guys! In europe, fuel consumption and emissions are much more critical than here, this is innovative stuff! ignore the Lambo doors.... it's Italy! Home of the Lamborghini! GaleForce, DEpointfive0, blackcherry20 and 1 others like this. __________________ H&R / Stillen / Berk / HKS / Swift / Michelin / UpRev / SPC / Amuse Rep / Seibon / Fringe XVO / TWM / more... My Journal Last edited by wheee!; 01-24-2013 at 04:31 PM.

01-25-2013, 03:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
lorenz1955 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Italy Posts: 33 Drives: 370Z Hydromoving S. Rep Power: 12	Dear Friend, The Hydromoving System, don't you sell as a regular KIT ..this is a prototype, is a real system with two ECU controllers, injector rail, tanks, pressure controls, filters ... etc..and you need a week to it install. Real tests need to be done at the Dyno runs with NEUDC Cycle ...to European standards ...for the USA , maybe USEPA... i don't know. Second point: The tests to verify the proper functioning of the system ... were written in protocol testing imposed by Nissan ...Fuel consumption, emissions and power ...Before and after.Can you see in my website In order to facilitate reading data files, I will try to translate into English the most interesting pdf parts of the site. The road test, performed by various journalists, by prof of some Italian universities, showed that: In Highway cruise cctrl active 140 Km/Hr, full of petrol, placed the device, the result were 19.2 Km trails with just one liter of gasoline. These tests, reading the on-board instrumentation, while the logs on the Dyno, noted a consumption of 16, 7 km/liter in suburban location. This is the second prototype which instructed me Nissan, to test the feasibility of the system ...about 370 Z cars and GTR ... is not a system for sale ... though seeing all the money i spent on it, I would like to create a new prototype that costs little and within reach of all budgets, or search for an investor in the USA, that ... testing the effectiveness of the system with US EPA or other, if it works, would like to import it and build it in USA. Attention Please...very important... ... This is the description of a Nissan Europe project to make it known to fans .... and according to Nissan claimed that the car must be perfectly, and not a screw had to be replaced. Ban the reprogramming of the injection unit. To be continued... Many Thanks at all Lorenz __________________ info@hydromoving.com

01-25-2013, 07:32 AM	#12 (permalink)
wheee! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Mod Capital of Canada Age: 57 Posts: 7,354 Drives: cars. lots of cars. Rep Power: 40181	Maybe I was off the mark thinking that this forum would support someone spending a lot of their own money and time researching and building an alternative system to improve the engine of our cars.... I didn't expect everyone to run out and buy a system, let alone be fanboi's, but I did expect that there would be support for someone thinking outside the box and having the stones and conviction to try and build it. It's people like Lorenz that help move our technology forward, either by discovering something incredible or proving it is non-viable. Either way, it's good for our future. ebb559 likes this. __________________ H&R / Stillen / Berk / HKS / Swift / Michelin / UpRev / SPC / Amuse Rep / Seibon / Fringe XVO / TWM / more... My Journal

01-25-2013, 08:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
lorenz1955 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Italy Posts: 33 Drives: 370Z Hydromoving S. Rep Power: 12	Dear friends, I wanted to ask you to rest assured, nobody wants to come to smoke in the USA sell ... have enough snake oil to the USA, exactly those written by WSTAR, I so far I have received so much from Nissan Europe, Universities and I'm glad for this ... The forum is helpful to share with you a project ..., having opinions, observations, I don't absolutely need investors, perhaps you misunderstood my thought ... Best Regards Lorenz __________________ info@hydromoving.com

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