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Track Tire + Wheel "Square" Set-up Help

I have been reading through forum posts related to this, but honestly my head is spinning a bit on the optimal set-up. So I would appreciate some help. I am

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Old 10-01-2014, 06:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Track Tire + Wheel "Square" Set-up Help

I have been reading through forum posts related to this, but honestly my head is spinning a bit on the optimal set-up. So I would appreciate some help.

I am looking for advice from those of you who have a square set-up on your 370Z track cars.

Right now I have my eyes on these Enkei PF01's. Others have mentioned this size working, but the offset is not quite what I have seen in other posts. Of course, I would need the proper spacers as well. Thoughts?

As for tires, does anyone have recommendations for a good track tire? I don't want slicks, but I want tires that are as sticky as possible without them being slicks. FYI- I am talking about use in track day events, running about 5 or 6 twenty minutes sessions a day. I do this 12-16 days per year, roughly.
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Why do you want to go square? Our cars really aren't meant to wear the same size wheels front and back...simply because of the width and offset of the rear wheels. The hubs are pretty far in and the fenders are really made to accommodate some aggressive size rubber.

Is your suspension stock? You might be able to get away with those 18x10.5" +38 Enkei wheels all around, but you'll need a 15mm or 20mm spacer for the rear and maybe a 5mm for the front if you have clearance issues with the knuckle...but the front should be fine with them even without a spacer.

For tires, it really depends on the amount of money you want to spend so I'll leave that for you to decide, or maybe another form member has a suggestion...but for 10.5" wheels you'd need to run around a 285, which is fine to run 285s all around, maybe you can even do 305s all around like the new Camaro Z/28

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Old 10-01-2014, 10:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedWookiee View Post
I have been reading through forum posts related to this, but honestly my head is spinning a bit on the optimal set-up. So I would appreciate some help.

I am looking for advice from those of you who have a square set-up on your 370Z track cars.

Right now I have my eyes on these Enkei PF01's. Others have mentioned this size working, but the offset is not quite what I have seen in other posts. Of course, I would need the proper spacers as well. Thoughts?

As for tires, does anyone have recommendations for a good track tire? I don't want slicks, but I want tires that are as sticky as possible without them being slicks. FYI- I am talking about use in track day events, running about 5 or 6 twenty minutes sessions a day. I do this 12-16 days per year, roughly.
Im on 18x10.5 PF01s right now, et38 up front with a 10 mm spacer and ARP studs so the wheel clears the inside knuckle arm, and et15 rear. I DD on 295/35/18 Contientals and track on either 285/35/18 Hankook RS3s or 275/35/18 Maxxis RC1. The Z works well with square tire setups since the front is on the nose heavy side. But the suspension needs to be setup around the square tire setup to be optimal. im of the opinion the OE stagger is to make the car more forgiving to novice drivers.

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Originally Posted by VinceThe1 View Post
Why do you want to go square? Our cars really aren't meant to wear the same size wheels front and back...simply because of the width and offset of the rear wheels. The hubs are pretty far in and the fenders are really made to accommodate some aggressive size rubber.

Is your suspension stock? You might be able to get away with those 18x10.5" +38 Enkei wheels all around, but you'll need a 15mm or 20mm spacer for the rear and maybe a 5mm for the front if you have clearance issues with the knuckle...but the front should be fine with them even without a spacer.

For tires, it really depends on the amount of money you want to spend so I'll leave that for you to decide, or maybe another form member has a suggestion...but for 10.5" wheels you'd need to run around a 285, which is fine to run 285s all around, maybe you can even do 305s all around like the new Camaro Z/28
Only reason id run stagger on the Z is to help harness F/I power
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintfocus View Post
Im on 18x10.5 PF01s right now, et38 up front with a 10 mm spacer and ARP studs so the wheel clears the inside knuckle arm, and et15 rear. I DD on 295/35/18 Contientals and track on either 285/35/18 Hankook RS3s or 275/35/18 Maxxis RC1. The Z works well with square tire setups since the front is on the nose heavy side. But the suspension needs to be setup around the square tire setup to be optimal. im of the opinion the OE stagger is to make the car more forgiving to novice drivers.



Only reason id run stagger on the Z is to help harness F/I power
So you run a staggered offset, with same width wheel, and square tire setup? Interesting, however the only reason I can see to run a square tire setup is for cost, so you can buy sets of four and rotate them as you like, and you can have spares to put wherever needed. However, for that it'll be nice to have the same size wheels as well so you can mix and match quickly and easily.

As you know, nearly all RWD sports sedans, coupes, and sports cars in general have a staggered setup from the factory. This is because the front wheels have to turn so they cannot be as large unless the suspension is really made for it...and in general is not needed for a front tire to be that wide.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceThe1 View Post
So you run a staggered offset, with same width wheel, and square tire setup? Interesting, however the only reason I can see to run a square tire setup is for cost, so you can buy sets of four and rotate them as you like, and you can have spares to put wherever needed. However, for that it'll be nice to have the same size wheels as well so you can mix and match quickly and easily.

As you know, nearly all RWD sports sedans, coupes, and sports cars in general have a staggered setup from the factory. This is because the front wheels have to turn so they cannot be as large unless the suspension is really made for it...and in general is not needed for a front tire to be that wide.
my offsets are staggered to fit the shape of the body, my offsets dont allow me to rotate front to back, even though it would be nice and i could do so if i got Enkei NT03s which come in 18x10.5 et30 and just spacer the rear.

Running square setup though needs to have a chassis tune to match, which is what i have done with my setup. yeah most front engine, rwd cars have stagger from theh factory, but like i said i dont feel its because its optimal, i feel its to make the car have a understeer bias for a safer at the limit behavior for the common driver. Most of the Front engine RWD cars on track setup around square sizes (S2ks, Miatas, Z's, mustangs, etc) as to give the front more heat capacity and grip. instead of tuning rear traction with wide tire width, i like to do it with suspension setup and LSD tuning.
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintfocus View Post
my offsets are staggered to fit the shape of the body, my offsets dont allow me to rotate front to back, even though it would be nice and i could do so if i got Enkei NT03s which come in 18x10.5 et30 and just spacer the rear.

Running square setup though needs to have a chassis tune to match, which is what i have done with my setup. yeah most front engine, rwd cars have stagger from theh factory, but like i said i dont feel its because its optimal, i feel its to make the car have a understeer bias for a safer at the limit behavior for the common driver. Most of the Front engine RWD cars on track setup around square sizes (S2ks, Miatas, Z's, mustangs, etc) as to give the front more heat capacity and grip. instead of tuning rear traction with wide tire width, i like to do it with suspension setup and LSD tuning.
I agree that it is better to run a wider tire in the front, especially on the track, but also why not run an even wider tire in the rear because the car allows it. I have always liked fully square setups because of cost effectiveness and ease of use, especially if you track the car, you just have spare tires and wheels that can go anywhere on the car, doesn't matter...that's a huge plus. All 4 same wheels with a thick spacer in the rear does make a lot of sense, especially because it'll be so easy to swap wheels and tires around. Only problem is I want my 325s and I sure won't be able to fit that in the front without being ridiculous lol, the car is just designed to take bigger wheels and tires in the rear.

However, I don't completely agree that the staggered setup necessarily gives you safer handling characteristics because a wider tire doesn't give you more traction, it does however build heat slower and lasts longer, partly because of less heat and less heat means less stress per square area of tire compound, so after a few laps you do end up with more traction overall, but not initially. On the track that is important, but I believe that most FR cars run staggered setups because the fronts have to turn, so the wheel arches have to be really big for wide tires, as well as possible suspension rubbing issues have to be accounted for. Also, they are not as necessary for street use because the rears drive the car and therefore wear out much faster, especially when burning rubber off of lights and on corners. This is why wide rear tires are needed and front are not on a RWD car, and in any case the rears still go before the fronts even in a street use RWD car, but the wide rear tire sort of balances that out to some extent. I think my 285s are plenty wide at the front, and with the 325s in the back, I'm laying more rubber on the road than a Lamborghini Aventador

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Old 10-05-2014, 12:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I suggest approaching your question from a different direction. First choose what tire you want to run and then see what is available and fits. You will see that this will quickly limit your available choices.

When it comes to non-slick R-compounds you do not have many choices. I suspect that you will eventually find that all roads keep leading you back to the Nitto NT01 (assuming you have 18 inch wheels). If you have factory 19’s you will be really stuck with Toyo’s R888 (which is fine but they should be shaved for dry use).

Although, I have not seen any real world comparisons of the new breed of ultra high performance street tires such as the Rival compared to the Nitto NT01 & Toyo R888.

You may end up doing what I did and trading your precious Sport Rays for some lesser 18x10 wheels.
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Your stock wheels look good to me.
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