Is anyone trying to unlock tuning the VVEL?

DIGItonium · 08-23-2012, 09:44 PM

I wonder what happens when one builds the engine with lower CR in which the dish on the piston is deeper? Wouldn't that allow more valve travel?

wstar · 08-23-2012, 11:35 PM

If you're at the level where you'd consider physically adjusting VVEL, you're probably better off just sticking non-VVEL heads from a DE engine or whatever on the thing, at which point adjustment becomes much easier. You can just make em all racey and screw gas mileage. VVEL is cool, but most of the cool stuff it does is in the name of compromise, not absolute performance.

7419sundat · 08-24-2012, 12:08 AM

Yeah its so simple and tempting though

. JWT's video in the description said that they did it along with exhaust cams. I can't find how much they gained though. As long the valve never touches the piston i think there should be gains. Then put in the JUN cams along with it... Idk maybe i'll call JWT tomorrow.

1slow370 · 08-24-2012, 02:53 AM

to do it you have to do it evenly. if you want to try it (i am not responsible for anything you do) pull the spark plugs and valve covers, pull the timing chain cover and ADVANCE both intake cams 6 teeth on the chains that ties them to the exhaust cams. then put a dial indicator on each lifter and turn the motor over with the vvel actuator at max open by hand, and record the travel of each valve. then adjust one valve down and turn motor over again(if it stops don't force it or you'll bend a valve) and record the change. go through and do the other 23 the same amount (might have to play with it until they are all even) and turn the motor over again. reset the intake cams and turn it over again, if it doesn't hit and all the valves are equal, reassemble and fire the bitch up.
When the motor shuts off it locks the timing gears at full retard the 6 teeth of advancement is the entire range from retard to full advance on the intake valves (plus a 1/2 tooth for saftey). if you want to get really technical you should leave .05 between the valve and the piston so you would have to adjust it close, pull the heads put modeling clay on the pistons put the heads back on, turn it over, pull heads, measure the thicknes of the clay readjust all the valves back a little to get .05, repeat one more time for safety, then reassemble the motor. ITs no small task but theres a guide if you want to try it, again i'm not responsible(unless you get mad power then it's all me

)

DIGItonium · 08-24-2012, 08:25 AM

So what happens at the minimum after the valves are pushed further down? Wouldn't the gap at the minimum start to open more?

7419sundat · 08-24-2012, 12:28 PM

They said to NOT touch it so i don't want risk it.

NYBladeZ · 08-24-2012, 04:24 PM

^^then you will forever see limited gains

7419sundat · 08-24-2012, 04:49 PM

Haha so will you unless you have done it.

NYBladeZ · 08-27-2012, 02:21 PM

I traded in the car and at this point don't think anyone will crack VVEL. It still bugs me though b/c the common belief is that there is untapped potential left on the table because of tuning limitations.

1slow370 · 08-31-2012, 02:39 AM

don't worry about idle it is controlled by the ETB's not the VVEL, there are six adjusters, and yes the ecu will not know the change happened other than changes to air fuel ratio. the biggest thing with the ecu is that you will have no control over the advace curve for the vvel you will have more lift and duration so theoretically more power but depending on the advance curve you might be leaving some on the table. all the shops that touch it say there is no point in adjusting it but we'll never know without real dyno results

1slow370 · 08-31-2012, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7419sundat

They said to NOT touch it so i don't want risk it.

Yeah and if you go through the manual they say to throw half the car out when you work on it. They just cant train there mechanics to do it or they want to stuff you with the bill for new parts. like the vvel actuators it says to throw them out, engine builders aren't throwing the damn things out every time the just realign them.

Sony tells everyone with no video on the PS3(but no YLOD) to send them the console and they charge $225 to "repair" it when most of the time its the cable settings getting switched and all you haveto do is hold the damn power button down til it beeps once when turning it on.

Jordo! · 04-23-2013, 07:15 PM

Well, the latest word on tuning VVEL is that Osiris adjusts the range rather than the targets so there may be more advantages to NA VVEL tuning than previously thought. Sounds like this kind of tuning is still really in its infancy.

Be interesting to see what Ecutek discovers on that front.

criminalntent · 04-23-2013, 08:05 PM

Tuning and creating cam profiles are two completely different angles. Osiris, Ecutek etc. won't get a true VVEL "tune" until they get an engineer on board that can create a cam profile for them.

Jordo! · 04-24-2013, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by criminalntent

Tuning and creating cam profiles are two completely different angles. Osiris, Ecutek etc. won't get a true VVEL "tune" until they get an engineer on board that can create a cam profile for them.

Yeah, but opening the head is a whole other can of worms unto itself.

Given the same non adjustable exhaust cam, it should be possible, especially with breather mods and room to increase lift and adjust duration on the intake side to get more power.

It just remains to be seen, apparently, because no one has had full control over it before, so lets see what Ecutek finds

08-23-2012, 09:44 PM	#121 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	I wonder what happens when one builds the engine with lower CR in which the dish on the piston is deeper? Wouldn't that allow more valve travel? __________________

08-23-2012, 11:35 PM	#122 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3594	If you're at the level where you'd consider physically adjusting VVEL, you're probably better off just sticking non-VVEL heads from a DE engine or whatever on the thing, at which point adjustment becomes much easier. You can just make em all racey and screw gas mileage. VVEL is cool, but most of the cool stuff it does is in the name of compromise, not absolute performance. UNKNOWN_370 likes this. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

08-24-2012, 12:08 AM	#123 (permalink)
7419sundat Base Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: colorado Posts: 145 Drives: 09 370z Gtm TT 2 Rep Power: 13	Yeah its so simple and tempting though. JWT's video in the description said that they did it along with exhaust cams. I can't find how much they gained though. As long the valve never touches the piston i think there should be gains. Then put in the JUN cams along with it... Idk maybe i'll call JWT tomorrow.

08-24-2012, 02:53 AM	#124 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	to do it you have to do it evenly. if you want to try it (i am not responsible for anything you do) pull the spark plugs and valve covers, pull the timing chain cover and ADVANCE both intake cams 6 teeth on the chains that ties them to the exhaust cams. then put a dial indicator on each lifter and turn the motor over with the vvel actuator at max open by hand, and record the travel of each valve. then adjust one valve down and turn motor over again(if it stops don't force it or you'll bend a valve) and record the change. go through and do the other 23 the same amount (might have to play with it until they are all even) and turn the motor over again. reset the intake cams and turn it over again, if it doesn't hit and all the valves are equal, reassemble and fire the bitch up. When the motor shuts off it locks the timing gears at full retard the 6 teeth of advancement is the entire range from retard to full advance on the intake valves (plus a 1/2 tooth for saftey). if you want to get really technical you should leave .05 between the valve and the piston so you would have to adjust it close, pull the heads put modeling clay on the pistons put the heads back on, turn it over, pull heads, measure the thicknes of the clay readjust all the valves back a little to get .05, repeat one more time for safety, then reassemble the motor. ITs no small task but theres a guide if you want to try it, again i'm not responsible(unless you get mad power then it's all me ) XwChriswX likes this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

08-24-2012, 08:25 AM	#125 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 42	So what happens at the minimum after the valves are pushed further down? Wouldn't the gap at the minimum start to open more? __________________

08-24-2012, 12:28 PM	#126 (permalink)
7419sundat Base Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: colorado Posts: 145 Drives: 09 370z Gtm TT 2 Rep Power: 13	They said to NOT touch it so i don't want risk it.

08-24-2012, 04:24 PM	#127 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	^^then you will forever see limited gains __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-24-2012, 04:49 PM	#128 (permalink)
7419sundat Base Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: colorado Posts: 145 Drives: 09 370z Gtm TT 2 Rep Power: 13	Haha so will you unless you have done it.

08-27-2012, 02:21 PM	#129 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	I traded in the car and at this point don't think anyone will crack VVEL. It still bugs me though b/c the common belief is that there is untapped potential left on the table because of tuning limitations. __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

08-31-2012, 02:39 AM	#130 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	don't worry about idle it is controlled by the ETB's not the VVEL, there are six adjusters, and yes the ecu will not know the change happened other than changes to air fuel ratio. the biggest thing with the ecu is that you will have no control over the advace curve for the vvel you will have more lift and duration so theoretically more power but depending on the advance curve you might be leaving some on the table. all the shops that touch it say there is no point in adjusting it but we'll never know without real dyno results __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

04-23-2013, 07:15 PM	#132 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 417	Well, the latest word on tuning VVEL is that Osiris adjusts the range rather than the targets so there may be more advantages to NA VVEL tuning than previously thought. Sounds like this kind of tuning is still really in its infancy. Be interesting to see what Ecutek discovers on that front. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-23-2013, 08:05 PM	#133 (permalink)
criminalntent Base Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 15 Drives: M37 Rep Power: 12	Tuning and creating cam profiles are two completely different angles. Osiris, Ecutek etc. won't get a true VVEL "tune" until they get an engineer on board that can create a cam profile for them.

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