Lift off oversteer

2011 Nismo#91 · 05-27-2019, 08:21 AM

https://youtu.be/weoXvHcwOKU
Came pretty close to the tire wall.

Here's my best lap
https://youtu.be/lIDOTMu3D2I

cv129 · 05-27-2019, 11:06 AM

Just wondering, purely in theory, would a 1.5 or 2 way LSD help with lift-off oversteer?

Rusty · 05-27-2019, 11:49 AM

Being a little off line, in the marbles, a little too hot for the corner, light flywheel, high compression motor, sudden lift of the gas pedal will do it.

BettyZ · 05-27-2019, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

https://youtu.be/weoXvHcwOKU
Came pretty close to the tire wall.

Here's my best lap
https://youtu.be/lIDOTMu3D2I

I hope you brought a spare set of drawers with you..

gomer_110 · 05-27-2019, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

Just wondering, purely in theory, would a 1.5 or 2 way LSD help with lift-off oversteer?

My experience from autox is a 1.5 way would help but not in directly reducing lift-off oversteer. Once I got my 1.5 way I found myself being on the gas much sooner which in turn meant transferring weight to the rear which means more grip.

cv129 · 05-27-2019, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomer_110

My experience from autox is a 1.5 way would help but not in directly reducing lift-off oversteer. Once I got my 1.5 way I found myself being on the gas much sooner which in turn meant transferring weight to the rear which means more grip.

Thx for sharing

2011 Nismo#91 · 05-28-2019, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cv129

Just wondering, purely in theory, would a 1.5 or 2 way LSD help with lift-off oversteer?

I have a Quaife Diff 1.5way. The real solution would be enter the corner slower, that was at least 10mph faster then when I did my fastest lap. Or add a little power to put some weight on the rear and control the exiting of the track better then what I did. But if you want change the car rather then the driver here are a few things that could help.
Reduce the rear tire pressure
Soften rear springs or anti-roll bar
Softer rear tires
Increase rear down-force aero
Increase rebound dampening

osbornsm · 05-28-2019, 08:51 AM

My feeble attempt to understand 1.5 / 2-way diffs...

The increased resistance from the extra traction you now have, would offset the vehicle MORE in lift-off conditions. This is assuming the theory that the 2-way would slow both tires with the trans instead of just one?

Whacha got?

Hidalgo · 05-28-2019, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Being a little off line, in the marbles, a little too hot for the corner, light flywheel, high compression motor, sudden lift of the gas pedal will do it.

Warm ... Warmer ..... Disco.

cv129 · 05-28-2019, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osbornsm

My feeble attempt to understand 1.5 / 2-way diffs...

The increased resistance from the extra traction you now have, would offset the vehicle MORE in lift-off conditions. This is assuming the theory that the 2-way would slow both tires with the trans instead of just one?

Whacha got?

Interesting, I had in my mind an aggressive deceleration lock yields understeer, glad I am asking, I just don’t have experience in this.

And to clarify, of course the priority is to develop driving skills, this is just a theoretical question. I am in no way suggesting it’s the car’s problem.

Spooler · 05-28-2019, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

I have a Quaife Diff 1.5way. The real solution would be enter the corner slower, that was at least 10mph faster then when I did my fastest lap. Or add a little power to put some weight on the rear and control the exiting of the track better then what I did. But if you want change the car rather then the driver here are a few things that could help.
Reduce the rear tire pressure
Soften rear springs or anti-roll bar
Softer rear tires
Increase rear down-force aero
Increase rebound dampening

A Quaife is a torsional diff. You only have a 1 way diff the way I understand it. To get a 1.5 way or a 2.0 way you would need a clutch type diff.

2011 Nismo#91 · 05-29-2019, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

A Quaife is a torsional diff. You only have a 1 way diff the way I understand it. To get a 1.5 way or a 2.0 way you would need a clutch type diff.

They are all 1.5ways

cossie1600 · 06-23-2019, 01:24 PM

That exhaust is so raspy it is distracting

ltullos · 06-24-2019, 08:51 PM

I had my own lift off experience at MSR Cresson 3.1 you can view here.

I normally run solo in the Intermediate group, but was able to go out with the Advanced group in the afternoon. I was significantly slower despite doing my personal best (2:34) in morning session; so I was more occupied with my mirrors and not holding up other drivers. In this segment, I stayed off-line to give pass to the Camaro who closing quickly on me. My AIM Solo data confirms I lifted ~600mS before Yaw rate detected spin. This also was the first time out running with yaw control disabled; so I clearly need some work on car control.

This raises the question of what is the best way to quickly develop car control skills. I'm thinking about going back on relative empty non-track day and grabbing a coach for half day where I can push to limit or even intentionally induce oversteer woithout impacting other drivers. They also have a skidpad, but I've never used it. Appreciate recommendations from those who have gotten over this hump.

Rusty · 06-24-2019, 09:42 PM

Looks like you got off line and into some marbles. Lifted enough to lose the rear. One thing you should never do. Give up your line in a turn. Stay on line until after the turn. Let him pass on the straight. You just experienced what happens. If he's that hard up to pass you. Let him take the chance in the turn. And he won't in most cases.

05-27-2019, 08:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,381 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 33858	Lift off oversteer https://youtu.be/weoXvHcwOKU Came pretty close to the tire wall. Here's my best lap https://youtu.be/lIDOTMu3D2I ED's Dream, cv129, Rusty and 3 others like this.

05-27-2019, 11:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
cv129 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,191 Drives: 09 Nismo, 16 Nismo Rep Power: 159827	Just wondering, purely in theory, would a 1.5 or 2 way LSD help with lift-off oversteer? __________________ Setrab \| RE-71 \| SPL \| JRZ \| Nismo \| ARK \| Whiteline \| RacingBrake \| CJM Oil Pan \| Ti shield

05-27-2019, 11:49 AM	#3 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 34,860 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684436	Being a little off line, in the marbles, a little too hot for the corner, light flywheel, high compression motor, sudden lift of the gas pedal will do it. cv129 and Hidalgo like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

05-28-2019, 08:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
osbornsm A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: WHAT Posts: 2,551 Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Rep Power: 423	My feeble attempt to understand 1.5 / 2-way diffs... The increased resistance from the extra traction you now have, would offset the vehicle MORE in lift-off conditions. This is assuming the theory that the 2-way would slow both tires with the trans instead of just one? Whacha got? __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE (455hp) - 2011 Nissan 370z (333hp) - 2004 VW R32 (240hp) - 2000 Civic Si (160hp)

06-24-2019, 08:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
ltullos Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: DFW Posts: 312 Drives: 2016 Nismo Tech MT Rep Power: 14	I had my own lift off experience at MSR Cresson 3.1 you can view here. I normally run solo in the Intermediate group, but was able to go out with the Advanced group in the afternoon. I was significantly slower despite doing my personal best (2:34) in morning session; so I was more occupied with my mirrors and not holding up other drivers. In this segment, I stayed off-line to give pass to the Camaro who closing quickly on me. My AIM Solo data confirms I lifted ~600mS before Yaw rate detected spin. This also was the first time out running with yaw control disabled; so I clearly need some work on car control. This raises the question of what is the best way to quickly develop car control skills. I'm thinking about going back on relative empty non-track day and grabbing a coach for half day where I can push to limit or even intentionally induce oversteer woithout impacting other drivers. They also have a skidpad, but I've never used it. Appreciate recommendations from those who have gotten over this hump. Last edited by ltullos; 06-24-2019 at 08:54 PM.

06-23-2019, 01:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 29	That exhaust is so raspy it is distracting

06-24-2019, 09:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
Rusty Ronin Samurai - Assassin Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 68 Posts: 34,860 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684436	Looks like you got off line and into some marbles. Lifted enough to lose the rear. One thing you should never do. Give up your line in a turn. Stay on line until after the turn. Let him pass on the straight. You just experienced what happens. If he's that hard up to pass you. Let him take the chance in the turn. And he won't in most cases. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

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