But the fact still remains Benz makes 6 figures on cars the way Nissan makes 30k. Same with Audi. Same with BMW.

Nissan has one 6 figure car
Same with Acura.
The numbers are relevant my brutha.

Yeah, but the point was that a "halo" car (a term which is used way too often, and might not even be intended to apply to Supra) should be a statement by the company that "this is the best of the best of what we do".
With this Mark Supra, Toyota would seem to be telling the world "The very best car that we can sell you right now is actually a BMW." Which is more than a bit embarrassing for them, really.

I guess we now know what Toyota wants to be when it grows up... a Bimmer! <evil grin>

Just watched a motorweek episode where they covered the North American international auto show and there was a nice vid of the Supra.

My initial reaction to this car when it was revealed was :ugh2: followed by :gtfo2: not a Supra since it’s just a reskinned bimmer. Then I was lukewarm to it...

However, my thinking has evolved to the point where I’m going to flat out say I reallly like it and if I were in the market for a new sports car, this would be up there.

I’d pick this over another nismo z all day assuming the driving dynamics are on point, (a manual option would be nice but not a deal breaker for me since my knees etc are shot). Plus, zf 8spd autos are insanely good.

Let’s remember that most of the world knows the supras reputation thanks to f&f but most couldn’t tell you what motor was in it. Plus a whole lotta people will buy this if they want a sports car bc it looks cool and Toyota means reliable and if they’re educated enough to know about the BMW connection, they’ll just consider it a plus since bmw has a Luxo/sport premium German rep.

The fact that a new sub 100k sports car just got dropped in our collective lap is a plus in this environment. It MIGHT spur a z35, it might not, but having another choice is good.

This is going to be a good car I think. remember when the r35 came out? No inline 6, no manual, not a real gtr, I’ll never buy one etc. haven’t heard those ******** complaints since 2010. And yeah, I know at least Nissan didn’t have Audi build the drivetrain,(although if they had, the gtr would have been much better :happydance:), but economics are different now than pre Great Recession, all the auto makers are teaming up and sharing costs. We should get used to it. Hell Chevy and Ford share the same 10spd auto iirc, I’m sure camaro and mustang owners were thrilled about that.

Well said. To say the car is not this or that after not at all driving it is ridiculous. The total amount of resources to bring a car to market now is insane. Cost sharing and parts bin sharing is nothing new. Its a sportscar and Im betting most who talk as if the world might end here then test it will be impressed. Im happy to see a new sportscar on the market in a sea of shite boxes and trucks. Fk that.

No one is doubting the car’s capabilities and I’m sure it drives amazingly well.

It just would’ve been nice if Toyota would’ve designed and built most of it. I mean this is Toyota, the giant car manufacturer who designed and built the LFA just for fun knowing fully well that it was a money losing project. It was just to show the world what they were capable of. And it was revolutionary.

Again, if I wanted a BMW, I’d buy a BMW not a rebadged one. Just saying.

PS: Here's something to think about - Toyota, until recently was the biggest car manufacturer in the world. They only recently became second to Volkswagen by an extremely small margin. The only reason Volkswagen is first is because it is a consortium of numerous car companies (Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, Seat, etc). For all intents and purposes, Toyota is still the biggest.

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2JZ SWAP KIT IN THE WORKS


https://www-motor1-com.cdn.ampprojec...jz-swap-kit%2F

That didn't take long.

:iagree:

It'll probably be out around the cars release. But we aren't getting the 4 banger. So it will be a costly and possibly an unnecessary swap? The engine inspections done by Toyota on the BMW engines were in the name of both tuneability and reliability. If I were to do a 2jz swap? I'd want to buy the cheapest car with a sport pkg. The 4 banger?

My family has always been pro Toyota and I've been a Toyota guy as much as I am a Nissan guy. I've had Celica GT-Four and an MR2 GT in the past but also has had a GTR R32... Not all at the same time except my MR2 GT is in the garage trying to rebuild the engine... Sadly no time.

Anyways, I have a relative who works in Toyota office over here and can access 20% discount on this Supra hence I've been interested on it for a while... Until they announced that it's pretty much a Z4 hard top version.

Knowing what I know about Toyota engineering as I used to work for a supplier for Toyota as an engineer, the new Supra is pretty much a BMW with Toyota badging. Sure the suspension and gearing tune is by Toyota but the parts will be made and supplied by the same supplier for BMW. So build quality and parts quality is BMW... Take it for what it is.


Now when I found out no manual and 2 seater.... As well as being around 80K AUD, as I'm from Australia.... I lost interest... Even with the discount this car is too impractical for the money.... And if I'm buying an impractical car that is marketed as a sports car... I want it manual so... Go all out sporty or not at all.

Hence I decided on the Nismo 370Z... Mind you I liked the 300ZX back in the days and would love to rebuild a 240Z one day... But I was a Nissan guy due to the Skyline GT-R.

With the 370Z Nismo I was able to get it for a price that I though was reasonable and knowing that manual NA coupes... Especially from Japan... Are going to be non existent on the future. I thought this is one of the last cars I will have that opportunity with.

So value wise and the fact that it's old school in drive train and driving style wise... I thought the Nismo 370Z was ticked all the boxes... That and I could re-use my old GT-R and JDM car after market wheels as it's 5x114.3 PCD... I have a few spare staggered and square sets at my parents garage... I tend to keep them rather than sell.

Anyways...

If I was going to buy a sporty BMW... Which I won't... I would have purchased an M2... I know a couple of friends with M2s and they are not really car enthusiasts... But they love the status of driving a fast BMW... They are the ones that get new cars every 3 years when their novate lease expire and they move on... They don't spend time in the garage nor modifying their cars... Strictly but and drive then sell when the new model comes out... They also prefer auto... Basically non manuals..
And funnily they are the ones who are very keen on the new Supra. But one is actually about to put an order for the new Z4 instead because of the BMW badge.

Overall the next refresh of this car... Might have a manual option also. And that would pretty much kill used price for the Supra... As most Supra or JDM car fans I know are only keen on manuals...

I haven't driven the Supra but I might take one for a test drive but I'm pretty sure my next car is going to be an RCF or a Lexus LC500... Used... As I plan to keep my Nismo as a weekender and the automatic sporty cars as dailies... This is in 5 years or so lol

But I think the new Toyota Supra is stuck in limbo...
Sales wise I will pay attention to as it will drive the replacement in 5 years time. Meanwhile if they release an MR2 that is japanese made and assembled as well as having manual and turbo... I may get that instead and put it next to the Nismo.

Unfortunately, if they do release a new MR2, I don’t think there will be much Toyota in that either. Seems like it’s a trend that I don’t see them changing anytime soon. It’s just much easier to rebadge these days. Just wondering which manufacturer they’ll use for the MR2. Maybe a rebadged Alfa 4C or Porsche Cayman? Or maybe a rebadged Alpine 110? Bets are open....


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Just read an article about MB and BMW sharing technology. Bet something comes out of that.

The new MR2 is called the Lotus Evora and it has been on the market for a few years. Mid-engine, Toyota V6 powertrain, Lotus handling, light weight (~3000 lbs), available with manual transmission, and $40K for a slightly used one.

https://youtu.be/a1FKRd8P42w

:iagree::iagree:

I posted this in the form of an article.

BMW doesn't make reliable anything? If this program teaches Bavaria to make reliable cars as well as fun to drive? I'm with that. In my eyes the one who is truly benefiting is BMW. Cuz they're getting information they couldn't produce themselves.

A formula for reliability. :driving:

First 2jz a90

Under The Skin of the First 2JZ Swapped A90 Supra - Speedhunters

2jz swap FAILED

https://jalopnik.com/god-has-struck-...1833514803/amp

26mpg combined vs 21 combined in a Z. More fun for less cost? Same hp but more torque. Same weight but lower COG. Better weight distribution. 47000 vs 50000? Hmmmm

https://jalopnik-com.cdn.ampproject....omb-1833773915

I personally think it looks good. I wish the engine were a 'Yoda, though.

Dealbreaker is lack of manual trans

but yeah, the Z is a ten year old car, there's no reason to buy it new.

There is a reason. To let Nissan know that we still want a new Z. But im just stating this cuz Nissan needs to step up. But last talk from nissan was the Z will be electric which sucks

The Z has been rolling around for 11 years on the calendar and 10ym yesrs. Its time for something.

https://carbuzz.com/news/toyota-can-...ret-any-longer

Looks like the 4 banger is coming with a tuned down BMW 4 banger after all. I don't see the purpose in dropping hp. Toyota really thinks that people prefer less hp for more joyful driving? That's like saying you'd rather watch porn than actually fvck. I am having a hard time relating to Japan's philosophies over the last 5 yrs or so?

Blame it on the Japanese version of millennials.

https://www-motor1-com.cdn.ampprojec...gring-crash%2F

Another Supra crashes at nurbergring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmzNNckDm4s

I mean that's cool if they're not just making things up, but ~$50,000+ for a car that most people will immediately think needs to be modded and kiss their warranties goodbye.

Good for people for who have that money and motivation for investment, but...I'll have to drive it to know why the hell I'd bother for the money. Reviewers so far don't think it's magical to any degree. It doesn't have that Miata charm.

That's a poor photoshop. What happened to their heads? And what's up with the guy with 3 arms?. :rofl2:

The official review of the Supra. So far... It's what I expected it to be. :tup:

https://youtu.be/B2pLOc1K8mg

I read these things while working n don't catch stuff. Lol. Geez. Horrible. :roflpuke2:

I think this car will wind up being something special. I mean, when you think about it - BMW type performance and the reliability of a Toyota (granted if it isn't reliable - Toyo will be flamed for it). I just wonder how much of a 'dealer markup' will there be. If it is around $50 and I was in the market for a new sportscar - this would be on the list to try to test drive.

Add in some tuning options and 50/50 weight distribution and it might be something really special. Throw in a manual and I might be sold. IDK - I guess I'm starting to convince myself that this could/be something special. HAHA

The car will be a success for Toyota. So far the reviewers really like it and it is selling out. Now maybe Nissan will get off their butt and make a new Z.

* The internet freaks out because that's what they like to do, then changes their mind, because they had nothing to freak out about in the first place. *

EVERY new sports car sells like hotcakes for the first 6 months, then sales flatten out like a pancake. And "selling out" is as much a function of supply as it is demand. By the time year 3 or 4 comes along, it's a miracle if they keep selling at all without a MMR. The Z is, quite frankly, that miracle. I think, because at the price point, not much touches it by way of looks or performance. And since it hasn't changed in 10 years, every aftermarket gizmo ever made still fits!

That's not a criticism of the Supra in any way. Just that a few weeks after these first hit store shelves, and before anyone can do an in-depth, thoughtful, comparative review of the car (or find out how well it copes with the real world), is way too soon to tell anything of substance. Let the feeding frenzy settle down, and a few reviewers report after some long-term testing. Preferably, journalists who know cars, not those strictly in the entertainment business (if there are any of those left).

It would appear that Toyota did not see a business case for an in-house developed / manufactured Supra. So for Nissan to make any substantial improvements to the 370Z on its own, hoping they will pay back more than the current (fully amortized) development, is a big question mark. More likely that looking to the future, development of a replacement model will be electric and thereby share scalable platform with other Nissan-Renault-Mitsubishi models.

Agreed, I think the Supra will sell well not only in hype, but on the great reviews it has been getting. I think it looks amazing at the price point I just wish they offered a manual and my z would be up for sale. The z has aged very well it still makes me look back and stare at its unique lines. Same goes for the new Supra, I think it will still look amazing in 10 years.

This is true. Like with the 86. But u gotta stick with the tried and true reviewers that aren't afraid to tell the truth. This is why I like Sofyan. When everybody was jumping all over the Q60. He called out its true flaws. As did Alex on autos. I pretty much don't hold anyone else's opinion in high regard.
Especially that Chris Harris dude. He went out of his way to make the Z sound like **** next to an FRS. N I'm not being bias... I always call out Nissan's BS. But ummm... The FRS wasn't anywhere in the same league as a Porsche or a Z... That was one of the most full o shyt reviews I ever done seen.

Last I heard from Nissan. I posted the article not too long ago. Nissan says 90 % of enthusiasts are strictly against the electrification of their sports cars. So the next gen will be gas engines. And I'm glad!!!!

Whatever people wanna say concerning lack of heritage in this car will be justifiable. But BMW has never really made a bad sports car. Neither has Toyota... Per say. The FRS handicap was it was disgustingly underpowered.
Sofyan looked like he was getting shoved around in the cockpit by torque. Something the Z totally lacks and why I went to a v8. If this car is as torquey as it looked in the overview? Sign me up!!

Torque rules... :driving:

Supra ran a 0-60 of 3.8 seconds according to car and driver....I'm all in once the funds are in order.

:yum:

Wow 12.3 quarter mile is dam fast 113mph trap...maybe I could live with out a manual?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...on-zero-to-60/

Well, you're definitely not going to match those times in a 3-pedal car! :-P

:iagree::driving: