Answered questions about how the supra was engineered.

https://youtu.be/_jbyzmtgU_0

EXACTLY!!!! IIm glad this video exists so I don't have to write.

https://youtu.be/1aoAeB195uo


Though this is about Mazda deciding NOT to make a Mazdaspeed 3. It falls in line what this vid is saying. We gotta be happy that somebody even came out with a new sports car that wasn't. muscle. Period! Mazda claims no money for R&D.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/04/...o-mazdaspeed3/

Tooooooooooooooo much over-thinking on a sportscar - no one has driven much less seen in person.

Video with just a bunch of blah blah blah over regurgitated talking points. See - Drive - Decide and discuss

It's still true though... I say drive before judging as well

I think the Supra looks amazing.

It’s ok to like the Supra....and the Z. Cars don’t have feelings.

People do. The looks is what stirs the emotions.

Among other things ;)


like my pants

2020 Supra... first thoughts
 

Bottom line guys- people are not happy with the fact that the world’s biggest/most successful car manufacturer decided to take the lazy way out and basically use a BMW Z4, change the sheet metal and rebadge it as a Toyota Supra! Period. That is the main problem with the car. Sure, they call it a joint venture and co-development but the fact remains, it is basically 90% BMW and will be built on the same assembly line as the Z4.

Let me ask everyone this; How would the current Nissan GTR have been received if it had been developed by Audi and used an Audi sport sedan platform and power train (with detuned engine)? Think about that one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does it really matter who designed it etc? If the car looks and feels good, I personally don’t care who’s behind it. As long as it has a warranty, I’m good to go.

dont you mean lambos? :tiphat:

This x1000000000000000000000 - its what you feel about the drive/looks etc. Most cars are conglomerations of parts bins and sharing, either from outside or internal sources. Very few are 'bespoke' at all.

More than happy to test the Supra and report my thoughts. I have a feeling it will be quite fun!

I think it was very generous of Toyota to help fund the development of the better car!

soo....actually came across one while i was driving in Frisco/Plano area. I was off of Hwy 121 near Legacy (for those in the DFW area) and came across a white one with manufacturer plates. I have to admit, seeing it up close on the road - I wouldn't mind getting one - it was nice, unfortunately my pic from my phone sucked so sorry about that.

http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1549509448

Cool, how much smaller is it compared to the z?

I was able to pull up next to it and honestly it didn't seem that much smaller than our cars. I would almost guarantee that it is probably comparable as far as the cabin and as for the car itself - it didn't look like the size of a FRS or something (at least to me during the 2min I was able to be next to it etc)

Good stuff... We always get first dibs with new sports cars on our roads... I saw the c8 vette 9 months before it came out on the frontage rd of 360 and avenue E. I remember being in awe.

Let me ask you this... If the supra was a 400hp 3jz for 100k+ Would u still be complaining about price? Cuz engine development cost was the main reason behind doing this. At least it's an inline 6. That's it's heritage... The supra is not perfect. But it's a new 2 seat FR sports car that's not muscle. Who else is doing it under $60k?

To add to this - will anyone of us care if after some basic mods and a tune - people are able to push close if not over 400HP. It's already 0-60 in 4.1s - imagine what it will be like with a tune and some basic mods - this car could be a fun car - granted having a BMW engine is a fail - but....I'm just happy to see more sports cars on the road; if the RX9 and Z come back - it will be like the 90s all over again (think i just aged myself haha)

BMW clone or not. I'm really happy that this car came out. I'm hoping that this will push Nissan and others to keep and update their sports cars. If you look at past history of sports cars. They run in cycles. There will be a bunch of new cars, then nothing for years. Then they will come back into style. This cycle of nothing has gone on too long. I believe that the manufactures are trying to look ahead to 2030's. And trying to figure out what the laws will be. A couple of euro countries have already said that there will be no fossil fuel vehicles sold in 2030. So the decision they have to make. Is how much money are they willing to spend on fossil fuel cars now vs electric vehicle tech. I think this is where a couple of companies are at now. Nissan being one of them. Toyota took the gamble.

Any new vehicle that comes out now has to have a hybrid or plug in electric variant to make economic sense for auto manufacturers for the reasons you stated above. We are in a global marketplace. If Europe bans the ICE and so does China, it almost doesn’t matter if we don’t since most cars are built on a global architecture.

Hell, Ford is coming out with a plug in f150 and the ram 1500 has a mild hybrid option already and so does the new wrangler, if a Jeep is now hybrid, I’d say the writing is on the wall.

2020 Supra... first thoughts
 

I don’t think price should’ve had anything to do with it. In the past, the Supra has always been Toyota’s halo sports car and expensive. The new Supra should’ve been a GTR or Corvette killer as it was in the past. I think a minimum of 500hp under 100k should’ve been the target and easily achievable (lightened LC500?). What they made is an improved BRZ/ 86. Now if The new Supra was called «*Celica*» instead........hmmmm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are generally identical in size. The Supra is about 5 inches longers. Around 167 inches vs 172 inches.

TRD parts for the new supra

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/02/tr...-line-concept/

It would have met the same dilemma as a 100k Z. The supra was 320hp when it came out. It's specs were in the same range as all the other jdm cars of the era.
Nissan 300zx turbo. 300 to 320 hp as well as the Mitsubishi 3000gt
The Mazda rx 7 turbo was 255hp but 500 to 800lbs lighter than the rest. The corvette z06 at the time was about 350hp and was considered the car to beat. The 300zx did it.
What made the supra amazing wasn't how fast it was out the box. But how easy it was to get 1000hp out of a 300hp engine... So I'm not sure why you think the Supra has to be a GTR killer out the box. It's priced right in line with a 370z Nismo, where it should be. What has to happen is the Z needs a competitive update. Put the Q60 engine in the Nismo.

Cant wait to test drive the new Supra, if they make a manual next model year I may end up trading my z in. If not, I may keep my z and go FI or get my dream sports car a 987.2 Cayman s.

TRD exhaust note, sounds meaty turn up the volume..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5CcHtCRPE

The Supra isn't a bad car at all. Decent power, looks and performance from what I have seen and read. And the price is reasonable. Not sure what all the hate is about. And who cares what it's called... Doesn't matter, the car can stand on its own. Just be glad it isn't a 4 banger or some hybrid POS.

Nice



Or a effin crossover a la Mitsubishi eclipse.

My biggest hangup is this - how many "halo sports cars" are out there built almost entirely by another automaker?

GT-R - 100% Nissan. Corvette - 100% GM. Ford GT... Mercedes AMG GT... Acura NSX... Porsche anything... BMW M... Audi R8 (platform shared with a sister automaker, ok...)... Even Subaru's halo car is 100% Subaru in the WRX/STI.

This is the new Supra's problem - it's the brand's performance beacon and they've basically presented their potential as a performance brand being dependent on an automaker who actually builds performance cars. As a brand, pride has to take the front seat for products like this. It's literally the one/only product where it is OK to take a monetary hit to fulfill that.

The pretense of a halo car is "if external factors were not an object, this is what we build without compromise". The message Toyota has sent here is "we want to look like we give a ****, so here's a BMW dressed up as the part." Whether that was the intent or not, that's how it comes across.

People would have bought a pure Supra for $100k. Without question. However, they will find people to buy these things, and as buyers, we can control the idea that we'll buy something if you just pretend it's to the standard you prefer as a buyer.

I am happy to see this car for no other reason than if it serves as proof the sports car market can still live IN SPITE OF the corner cutting that has to be done to bring something like this to market. That's the only point of optimism I have with this thing. Otherwise, it serves as precedent to pumping out nostalgia without the substance becoming acceptable.

If someone tells me "we'll make another Z car, but we gotta buy the entirety of it from Volkswagen or we can't do it," I will say to them "kill the Z with fire."

I appreciate what BMW can build, but what I further appreciate is BMW always did it on their own steam. The M cars are in-house, fully envisioned and executed, and unmistakably BMW.

Let's say the new Supra sets the Earth on fire with its performance, is that Toyota's accomplishment? Or is it BMW's? If that's your halo car, you cannot create the opportunity that someone else can take the credit.

^^^^^^^ Yeap, the Supra is a joke.

Well spoken.

Although there are blurred lines in the automotive world that make this distinction harder and harder. The Ford GT you mention isn't actually BUILT by Ford, although it's their design and drive train. The Alfa 4C is constructed on a Maserati line, with it's party-trick carbon tub built by a supplier entirely outside of the FCA empire. The Porsche Taycan will essentially be the Audi e-Tron.

But to take a BMW rolling stock plus interior and house it under unique sheet metal does not a true "halo" car make. It's just a way of cheaply generating a new volume seller whilst prostituting a storied badge. the only enthusiasts it was meant to please are stockholders. I hope it lives up to the hype for those who buy the car and not the company.

The question, as someone here so wisely commented earlier in this thread, is whether you are buying BMW performance with Toyota reliability and operating costs, or the other way around. That will be the telling part of the new Supra story, and one we won't know for some time.

I do wish them luck with it. We need more antidotes to self-driving people-movers for the lobotomized. This is a bold venture that was going to be doomed to criticism from the start. Show 'em they're wrong, Toyota!

Exactly! Very well said......:tup:

The Supra/BMW would be just like if Nissan made a new GTR/Audi. No thanks. The powertrain has always been what made the Japanese cars great. Long life and low maintenance.

I try to look at it like this... Let's say this Supra sets the world on fire? And sales go back to 80's or early 90's levels. 30,000 units annually. Toyota would have made enough money that the 2nd gen, we may have a 3jz?

The thing about all those other cars you mentioned is they come from car companies that build semi exotics. And Chevy still enjoys sales numbers of over 10,000 units.

The fault isn't in Toyota. It's in all the pansies buying snoozemobiles. Glorifying electrified cars and crossovers and enthusiasts who DONT make the SACRIFICE of buying new. Example. How many people here bought a new Z? Then people wonder why Nissan has the same car out for a decade. The GTR, unlike the Z enjoyed a consistent run in Japan without ever being canceled. The car is a living legend. Now that Nissan brought it here after 40 yrs of waiting. I realize the american market doesn't deserve it. Cuz all these sports cars are getting ruined trying to meet the elitist luxury minded upper middle class. We can't even have a raw sports car. Everyone complains and wants a smooth DCT... Why? So car companies give them what they can make smooth. A slushbox. But then the public complains it's a slushbox. Everyone screams for a manual but all chase the one manual car motor trend and road and track praise. So why should the car companies keep putting manuals in their car models if no one is buying them?

The more I read people's stupid demands on forums and bytchy complaints... Can we expect any less than car companies making a low financial impact sports car that sells 5000 units a year.

And if they made a GTR competitor. What they gonna sell. 750 units out the gate after a 20 yr hiatus like the unsuccessful and nobody bought NSX. The NSX was a 180000 sports car now being sold at 130000 cuz no one will buy it. And no one is still buying it with the 50k cut. I have little faith Iin any 100k subpremium car right now. We have to support the new car enthusiast market and a lot aren't doing that. I do! But many don't.

I posted an article where BMW had to send every engine part to toyota to pass their reliability inspections. And no engine part went into the Supra without Toyota's approval.

I doubt that BMW would’ve changed anything if a component did not pass Toyota’s expected level of reliability. Why would they? As far as BMW is concerned, they build the best. Toyota is just a customer wanting a piece of their action. Not the other way around.

True... but in this case Toyota is still the "customer". Also if BMW were a she, then Toyota would be wanting a piece of her action. :ugh2:

That's your personal doubt versus BMW and Toyota's statement. But as to why? Why wouldn't BMW try to improve its reputation for reliability since they've lost their ground as a benchmark from Cadillac and Alfa. Now they're saying Genesis is better. Reliability would be a great way for BMW to get back some of its fan base. People love Bimmers but feel safer in Infiniti, Cadillac etc... Due to they're more reliable and parts are cheaper. Also audi has been taking a huge share out of BMW because their reliability ratings have shot up since 2012 have been steadily increasing. So yeah... It pays for BMW to make more reliable engines.
And toyota never made an unreliable anything. Why would they start now?

Well, hope you’re right. Time will tell if the new Supra lives up to Toyota’s reliability goals. But, if I was a betting man.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only took them 7 years to get this one out - by then teleportation technology will nuke the car market. But I will hope for your scenario instead.

Not the point - they're still halo cars for their respective brands, engineered and mostly built solely by that brand.

Do not disagree at all here. I have owned three 370Zs myself, two of which were bought new, so I feel I'm entitled to the final sentiment there.