Exactly what I feared with using a BMW drivetrain

Stupid question but with some of the problems - is this something that a certified BMW tech could look at? Or is it a situation where Toyota did enough changes to things that they need their guy to look at yet Toyota didn’t build the car so it is taking more time to figure out the issues that seem to pop up?

You are taller than I am and a little more athletic it would be a tight fit and forget about wearing a helmet. The roof line will leave you with a concussion or two from banging on it be it is much lower than the Z. I was told to watch my head when sat in it. Once I was in I was fine. I had to make a couple attempts with a helmet on. I was like trying to get in NASCAR through the window. I had to scrunch down to keep the helmet of the roof.

I was told that there was some kind of limitation for either brand to work on the other's car. Apparently not hardware, so likely it's built into software/firmware somehow.

It is unclear to me how much/deep Toyota intervention is in the aspect of the electronic architecture. My guess it's very little judging from the fact that their own people (FTS engineers) were unable to solve the problems.

Toyota had 0 input or intervention in the electronics. So yeah, worst nightmare. Stuck with German electronics.


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I bet a bimmer tech coulda fixed it. :).

All kidding aside, the attitude you described re. ‘Yota Corp and customer care is not an isolated incident. They think their **** don’t stink and never have the customer’s back, read many similar posts to yours regarding 4Runner and Tacoma problems too.

Unfortunately, my experience with Nissan over 3+ decades has been no better...

https://jalopnik.com/the-255-hp-four...the-1841674097

The 255 HP Four-Cylinder Toyota Supra Is Coming To The U.S. In 2021

Heres a comparo of a camaro 4cylinder 1LE vs a supra. While I'm expecting better driving dynamics from the supra. I'm expecting a better overall car from the camaro.
The camaro wont spend it's time waiting for warranty claims to be honored and you get a manual.
If a 4cyl is your engine. You need a manual or DCT. As good as the ZF is. It's not gonna be great in a 4banger.

Maybe Toyota can call acura and borrow their TLX DCT. Since they're not building shyt.

Car and Driver has a good overview, there is a new color for 2021 and a big power bump

http://www.the370z.com/attachments/o...83d730eec.jpeg

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...a-photos-info/

I’m still waiting for a MT version tbh. Was really hoping there’d be one offered on the 4CYL at least.

Skimming the MKV forums, sounds like there's an update to a 6-port (vs 2) exhaust manifold and the cylinder head is revised to accept it, but supposedly this has existed on other B58 engines already.

Believe C&D is the same outlet that dyno tested the launch edition at ~335whp. Dunno if that was some press car magic. That's theoretically 380+ crank hp if we assume 15% drivetrain losses.

So basically, who knows what the real resulting figure could be, but I think the exercise of doing this+other revisions just now, in the second model year, is a bit dumb. I'd think this kind of stuff either should've come from the start, or a mid-life update.

2021 Premium trim apparently is a tad more than the 2020 Premium. $55k vs $53.9. I get that some cars do get more expensive with new model years, but I didn't think the original price was competitive enough in this market.

It doesn't add up to anything more attractive than before imo, maybe even less so because of the nature it is coming about. And that's before we speculate issues like POS VETT did.

I agree with your opinion re. Pricing, but I think it’s great that Toyota is continuing to update the car regularly. I wish nissan would’ve done so with the z. Sounds like their just being more honest with the real brake hp #s now although they apparently did do some hard part updates. C&D also mentions new suspension and chassis upgrades as well, that’s even more important imo, since all the track reviews said the first year car was not well sorted at the limit on track.

I am confident they’ll work the bugs out as the years go by, it’s the piss poor customer care that is the bigger turnoff for me.

Still, bottom line, a new sports car getting regular meaningful updates, as car guys, we should be very happy about that. :driving: :tup:

So, saw a black Supra tonight up close. Wow, it really looks sharp in that color, wife and I both really liked it in black, def the color we’d choose if we were shopping for a new sports car. :tup:

https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-toyota...h-a-1840457071

The 2020 Toyota Supra Has Noticeably Better Bite With A Tune From Litchfield

Numbers on paper vs what it ACTUALLY is are two different things IMO. I would actually take the 4th gen Supra over the 5th gen any day.

And I've still not seen one yet. :shakes head:

Without a question I would take the new based on what Ive read and in comparison to the older model its quite an improvement. Some good reading here about the new one. Multiple links with articles. This is a good review overall of the car. One of the best Ive seen in the motoring press around the world.

From the Lightning Lap data. Impressive overall I think!! - 2020 Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium
Lap Time: 3:01.4

Through sweeping combinations, the Toyota Supra skates from track edge to track edge with the deftness of a lighter car. Slightly soft by today's standards, the suspension moves around under duress, but it communicates how close the driver is to the limit in a way the steering doesn't. In the 13 years of Lightning Lap, only two cars have run faster with less power: the Ariel Atom 3 and the KTM X-Bow, which are essentially go-karts with fun-size curb weights.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

Will be interesting to keep track of this long-term test - https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-maintenance/

You're not missing out. Think of a Z4 with different head/tail lights.

I would hope the current model of any car is an improvement compared to its predecessor. Unfortunately, IMO, Toyota teaming up with BMW is a big no-no and a no-go in my book. Car for car, I think the 4th gen supra looks better and has a lot more potential than the 5th gen.

Again, this is my opinion and I am biased on my views.

Tuners have added significant power to this motor and Toyota chose it because of the internal strength the motor comes with. I think you should drive one.

Be that as it may, but again, my personal opinion, it's a no-go. If I want to own a BMW, I'll buy a BMW. IMO, the new Supra looks like a cross-breed between the Lexus RC and BMW Z4.

I saw one in person recently. Pulled up to a local gas station. Nothing great about it. I still think Z's look way better. A lot smaller in the cabin of a supra. Not worth the Price Tag.

I really wanna like it. I mean I really do, but its just a rebadged BMW.

At this point in my life I would rather just buy the BMW.

For kicks I just built one on the Toyota website. There is no way I'm paying $56,220 before taxes for this.

I do really like this car and would totally own one if I were in the market for a sports car, but I do agree that I’d still pick the bimmer as well, I want an m2 comp or whatever they’re calling the top dog m2 in a bad way.

Doug says it got better for 2021. It's Doug Score official. But he would still rather get a competitor car.



I hope reliability and troubleshooting took strides. I mean too late that it's all BMW parts, but any semblance to Toyota reliablity would be the exceptional selling point of this car imo.

Perhaps I'll see my first Supra today???




Anyone buying this thing?

Although I'm not in the market right now, I would hold off until the new Z hits the streets. That will hopefully give this car a run for its money.

Hopefully

I have seen one in a parking lot, it looked small, when I first saw it. it was a silver color....

Seen a few. It does make noise, and I'm so-so about that. I hate it when a car is not as fast as it sounds, but I geuss the Supra does make "the cut", especially now.

C&D did a dyno test. According to that Toyota really did add more power. I was unsure if they upped the rating on just paper because of the original dyno results suggesting it should have ~380hp crank. But now it's actually at the wheel.



388whp @ estimated 15% loss = ~446hp at the crank. With that engine and a turbo, it's not really a surprise they could just do that. I guess nice for who wants that power with a warranty.

BMW has a great powerplant in the Supra. Toyota did the research on it. I think the car is superb overall. Its nice to have sportscar choices!

The increased power on the 2021 model makes it more appealing, but I still think I'd rather spend another $5k-10k more and get a used GT-R.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nice review of both 2021 models Supra. The 4cyl is a true front mid-engine now. Quite intrigued. Fun review and a bit talking between them. But good review and nice visuals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsQosdDhpwQ

I'm hoping (such as the rest of us) that the new Z will be a 6MT and will have the performance to match so that it will give everyone an option if they are looking for a manual vs the automatic only transmission.
It seems that when you look at things such as driving experience and the connection with the car - that it always falls back to driving a manual. Granted one can't compete with DCTs and 10speed autos but still - I'll give that up to row my own gears.

Nice review of 2- liter model Supra:https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...formance-0-60/

Where the Supra 3.0 impresses as a stunningly quick sports coupe with a greasy, drift-hungry rear end, the Supra 2.0 battens it down. Even zig-zagging through a twisted tangle of canyon roads, the Supra was unflappable, possessing a rock-solid confidence that is rare to experience on any sports car priced less than $100,000 that doesn't wear a Porsche crest. Yes, that includes the ridiculously potent BMW M2 Competition we tested recently; the Supra 2.0 is not nearly as powerful as the 405-hp BMW, but stellar suspension damping, sharp turn-in, and 50/50 weight distribution allowed us to carry cornering speeds we're more accustomed to discovering in bigger, wider, quicker cars.

Sounds like a similar case Randy Pobst was making for a 4cyl Camaro.

I get it, but I feel like if they're making a case for some shedded weight at the expense of power, might as well really indulge in that direction. Wonder where the new 86 sits on the scales with very similar power.

BRZ and 86 have less power and refinement and you have to work the engine hard, very hard to gain excitement and work. The turbo makes up for that in the 2.0 Supra and has mechanical diff. Not a bad package and tuning already exists for this 4cyl BMW motor. Im intrigued by this model Supra and Im a big fan of yellow :)

Also now a true mid-front engine car in the 2.0 as the motor is very much behind the front axle. This is the daily fun driver Ive been looking for. I dont care about track. For that Id have an Elise. Ive done my tracking overall. This search is now about a daily driver. I think I have found it :)

Redline Reviews did a really nice video comparison between the 4cyl and the 6cyl versions of the Supra as well. If they are both turbo'd - I think I would still want to lean toward the 6cyl turbo instead of the 4cyl.

https://youtu.be/xPYSF328pew

I also wonder if Nissan will look at the pricing of the Supra to see where they will fit their car into the mix. A $40kish Z isn't bad depending on the performance they offer along with interior upgrades etc. As I type this - I do think to myself - $40ish for a base model Z - or any car for that matter - that is a little hard to swallow; isn't a brand new sport Z around $32k (if not less)?

I was referring to the supposed 2021 86 successor, supposedly running 260hp from another Subaru Flat 4