New Mustang 5.0L confirmed HP

MightyBobo · 12-19-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

so much nonsene in your post. first of all, a stock mustang would NEVER defeat a 370z on a track actually oriented towards handling and cornering ability.

there you go again with the typical american mentality. you make it seem like a car is no more than the sum of its horsepower. 400 hp big deal. you can get a turbo 4 banger evo X with minimal mods to make that much power, of course it also has excellent handling to go with it.

yeah, i guess all those other automakers that abandoned solid axles in favor of irs were all motivated by ignorance and elitism

and weight-wise, the 370z may not be light but it's not very heavy either compared to other cars of similar size. heck the aston one 77 with all its fancy carbon fibre body i think is only 100 lbs less than the z.

yeah, ford is able to sell lots of mustangs, so what? dodge also made a successful selling car out of the caravan, and toyota sells tens of thousands of corollas. what's your point? Meanwhile, mclaren had a tough time selling the f1. what is your point?

and yeah, the majority of ferrari and lambo owners never track their cars and only drive them on the street to show off. so what? should ferrari cut costs by downgrading the 458 italia back to solid axle, front engine, 5 sp manual, sliding one piston calipers, etc.....

and what do my track credentials have any relevance? this is a topic about the mustang, not my driving abilities. focus on topic

You underestimate the ability for a car that has a LOT of power to be able to pick up a lot of time on long straights, and you also underestimate the abilities of competent drivers to do what you perceive as unimaginable with a car. Case in point, Sabine at the Nurburgring, racing that silly delivery truck at times that'd blow your mind. I'd link the Youtube video, but sadly, Im at work.

You're misunderstanding my common sense with your so-called American mentality. I can understand and accept the fact that a car with enough power but less handling can POTENTIALLY beat a car on a track that has less power but better handling. I can ALSO accept the fact that spec Miatas with **** for power can smoke higher powered cars on a track. Many times, it just depends on the driver. And that is the part of the equation you are forgetting here. Furthermore, you're also forgetting the fact that the vast majority of people who purchase either of these cars has any track experience, and your amazing handling means precisely squat on the roads for the most part, minus zipping and zooming through traffic, and doing other illegal maneuvers.

Im not stating that anyone should cut costs or whatever, Im merely stating that Ford has found a method that works for them in building and selling the Mustang. To many, its a very attractive car, and reasonably priced at that. It has plenty of power for stoplight-to-stoplight racing, and given the right sticky rubber with some decent pads, I bet it wouldn't do half bad at the track. Sure, not quite as hot as if it'd have an IRS, but who cares as long as the driver is having fun?

Your driving repertoire has all the relevance in the world here - you're so quick to thumb your nose about the "ancient" technology here, what makes YOU the guy everyone should listen to about these dinosaurs on wheels? Have you driven one on the track and found it so terrifying you couldn't stand it anymore, and needed something with an IRS?

m4a1mustang · 12-19-2009, 10:59 AM

We should just forget about it. This is a 370Z forum so naturally there will be a lot of domestic hate. It just so happens that Pharmacist falls under the "moronic domestic hate" category.

It goes the same way on the Mustang boards... Only a handful of guys there are willing to recognize the capabilities of the 370.

The car guys here appreciate just about every car and know that the Mustang is a formidable track and strip car. The 2010 GT with Track Pack (i.e. Sport Package) is a formidable base for a track car -- .94 G on relatively skinny tires, 70 mph slalom... it's a very good car. Obviously it's not as track oriented as the smaller, 2-seat 370, but in the right hands I am absolutely positive a 2010 GT could school some bench racing, trash talking 370 driver on any track.

I'm sure the more technically oriented guys here will agree that this board has its share of bench racers and trash talkers who couldn't drive a 6MT to a 14 second quarter mile time if their lives depended on it.

370Zsteve · 12-19-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

so much nonsene in your post. first of all, a stock mustang would NEVER defeat a 370z on a track actually oriented towards handling and cornering ability.

there you go again with the typical american mentality. you make it seem like a car is no more than the sum of its horsepower. 400 hp big deal. you can get a turbo 4 banger evo X with minimal mods to make that much power, of course it also has excellent handling to go with it.

yeah, i guess all those other automakers that abandoned solid axles in favor of irs were all motivated by ignorance and elitism

and weight-wise, the 370z may not be light but it's not very heavy either compared to other cars of similar size. heck the aston one 77 with all its fancy carbon fibre body i think is only 100 lbs less than the z.

yeah, ford is able to sell lots of mustangs, so what? dodge also made a successful selling car out of the caravan, and toyota sells tens of thousands of corollas. what's your point? Meanwhile, mclaren had a tough time selling the f1. what is your point?

and yeah, the majority of ferrari and lambo owners never track their cars and only drive them on the street to show off. so what? should ferrari cut costs by downgrading the 458 italia back to solid axle, front engine, 5 sp manual, sliding one piston calipers, etc.....

and what do my track credentials have any relevance? this is a topic about the mustang, not my driving abilities. focus on topic

I'd take a mustang over an Evo any day of the week
dodge caravan is one helluva van
mclaren F1 was killed by Ford's own Shelby 500
every ferrari owners group I've attended at Lime Rock refutes your contention they don't track their cars
you talk a lot of nonsense for someone who has no track cred at all
370Z is overweight, worst feature of the design

Pharmacist · 12-20-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

[LIST][*]I'd take a mustang over an Evo any day of the week

you just posted your own fail right there. Evo are some of the fastest cars out there, with some of the latest technology, double clutch tranny, advanced awd, and a turbo 4-banger that can easily push in excess of 400 hp. It would easily run circles around your precious fintstone mustang.

Quote:

[*]dodge caravan is one helluva van

good to see the soccer mon inside you come out.

Quote:

[*]mclaren F1 was killed by Ford's own Shelby 500

you really believe one of the world's greatest cars to be ever made was defeated by a piece of junk ford? you're even more delusional than you appear to be. only thing that killed the f1 was the sticker price.

Quote:

[*]370Z is overweight, worst feature of the design

no it isn't. weights just about the same as other cars in its category. cayman, boxster, 135i, 911 carrera, etc...

how much does your precious mustang weigh anyway?

theDreamer · 12-20-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

you just posted your own fail right there. Evo are some of the fastest cars out there, with some of the latest technology, double clutch tranny, advanced awd, and a turbo 4-banger that can easily push in excess of 400 hp. It would easily run circles around your precious fintstone mustang.
good to see the soccer mon inside you come out.

you really believe one of the world's greatest cars to be ever made was defeated by a piece of junk ford? you're even more delusional than you appear to be. only thing that killed the f1 was the sticker price.
no it isn't. weights just about the same as other cars in its category. cayman, boxster, 135i, 911 carrera, etc...

how much does your precious mustang weigh anyway?

Sorry, I do not believe a turbo 4 banger is good at all. One reason I stepped away from the Evo in the end. Also, from the test drives I did and research, the Evo really loses power above 90MPH, the Mustang will continue into the 130 just like the Z. The Mustang 5.0L already has 400 horsepower, and the double clutch is nice but it is still slow on the shifts.

The Mustang currently is just below 3,500 pounds for the base GT, about 275 over the base 370z. Considering the other American muscle cars are in excess of 4,000 pounds I would say the Mustang is doing something right.

The Porsche line is 3,000 or less actually, the BMW is around 3,300 so it is on par with what the base 370z has. Then again the stock BMW has leather seats and other "luxury" features you only get in the Touring Z and the touring Z is above 3,300 (I believe around 3,400 actually). Nissan could have shed some weight, but cost would have increased and with the increase in safety standards it pushes weight up. Though not really sure cost would increase by 10,000USD but for a hundred pounds of weight we might pay an extra 500 or 1,000USD. I am sure many here would have been happy with that trade off.

370Zsteve · 12-19-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

So...what if the Mustang turned a faster lap time than the 370Z at a price less than, Pharmacist?

Old technology or not, >400 ponies is a good chunk of power, and you're doing nothing but being elitist/ignorant to any car that doesn't have an IRS. Just because you don't like the Mustang doesn't mean that legions of other people should. By virtue of viewing the 370 like you view the Mustang, the 370 is a pig (almost 3400 lbs - slightly less than my old 4th Gen Camaro) of a 2-seater sports car that should weigh less and be smaller considering it has NO utility at all.

Ford has proven that it can make a solid selling car out of the Mustang, and just because you're jealous that Ford can sell them like hot cakes shows. The VAST majority of people who buy them are going to do nothing but daily drive them anyway, so what do they care if the car has an IRS or a live axle? For that matter, wheres YOUR track credentials? You talk a lot of smack for someone who I don't recall posting any auto-x or track stories...

Pharmacist = troll

sloterg · 12-19-2009, 08:25 AM

ive always loved the muscle and imports, i love the muscle vs imports fights even more.

the fact of the matter is..the mustang weighs waaaaaaay less than those other muscle cars, and produces just as much HP.. i give ford props for making a strong car like that, cuz for many years ive seen nothing but chicks driving those mustangs, not that its a bad thing, but it started to lose its muscle car title

MightyBobo · 12-19-2009, 08:55 AM

If the General would have made the new Camaro 300-400 lbs less, I'd be a Camaro owner right now.

MightyBobo · 12-19-2009, 11:10 AM

Yeah, I know m4a1 - I read the reviews and just about every one of them rang the same tune: "For having a live axle, you aren't going to find a better handling car" was the general statement.

Like I said, I'm a Chevy guy, but kudos to Ford for making what looks to be a very solid entry here for 2011.

Unfortunately, I'm too damn stubborn to let the bench racers rule the world, and I shall continue to fight the good fight.

m4a1mustang · 12-19-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

Yeah, I know m4a1 - I read the reviews and just about every one of them rang the same tune: "For having a live axle, you aren't going to find a better handling car" was the general statement.

Like I said, I'm a Chevy guy, but kudos to Ford for making what looks to be a very solid entry here for 2011.

Unfortunately, I'm too damn stubborn to let the bench racers rule the world, and I shall continue to fight the good fight.

I am just a car enthusiast in general... I have no brand allegiances. And likewise, I am too stubborn to back away from the bench racing drivel. I always have to jump in and at least make it known that their words are nothing more than hate of a certain brand thinly veiled by their misinterpretation of their own understanding of how anything actually works.

MightyBobo · 12-19-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I am just a car enthusiast in general... I have no brand allegiances. And likewise, I am too stubborn to back away from the bench racing drivel. I always have to jump in and at least make it known that their words are nothing more than hate of a certain brand thinly veiled by their misinterpretation of their own understanding of how anything actually works.

In a perfect world, we'd all be "car enthusiasts" here...but sadly, there are too many "370Z-or-nothing enthusiasts", and not enough "car enthusiasts".

I can respect any brand btw, but just like being in the military...we may be one big team, but a little friendly rivalry never hurt anyone

LiquidZ · 12-19-2009, 11:17 AM

I have been waiting for this for a long, long time. I might have to check out down the line.

People seriously need to stop bashing the live axle. I tracked my S197 Mustang, and I had nothing short of an excellent experience with it.

Pharmacist · 12-19-2009, 11:18 AM

Yes, high power might help play catch up on the straights and may help keep up with weaker but better handling cars. But tighter more technical tracks may negate this advantage. Regardless, taking corners is more fun, and requires better engineering and driving skill than simply going fast in a straight line.

Again, if it was all about a car meeting daily driver needs and nothing more, then no car would come with more than 250 hp, no car would have a top speed greater than 120 km/h, no car would come with high performance summer tires, or big brakes and calipers. In fact, we'd all be driving minivans and crossover suv.

And where does this drivel about mustangs being a good bang for the buck come from? Over here, the 2010 gt mustang with the v8 4.6 engine that makes a measly 315 hp, FIVE speed manual, and the optional track package has msrp of about 41000. The 370z touring with about 15 hp more out of a v6 with almost 1 litre less displacement, SIX speed manual with SRM, independent suspension, and the sport package has an MSRP of 45500. Hardly a bargain considering the z is faster, better quality, better fit and finish, better reliability, better image, and better resale value.

Car making should be about innovation, about new technology. That's why they have engineers, and an R and D budget. Their objective should be coming up with something new, refreshing and updating their product, and push themselves to their limits, not just recycling stale outdated products just because people keep buying them. Look at nissan, they created innovative new technology with the vvel, synchrorev, and in the future possibly direct injection. did they have to do that? no. would people buy nissans if they didn't? for sure.

Speaking of innovation, i heard that nascar has recently taken a very bold and innovative step and will begin experimenting with fuel injection

theDreamer · 12-19-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Yes, high power might help play catch up on the straights and may help keep up with weaker but better handling cars. But tighter more technical tracks may negate this advantage. Regardless, taking corners is more fun, and requires better engineering and driving skill than simply going fast in a straight line.

Again, if it was all about a car meeting daily driver needs and nothing more, then no car would come with more than 250 hp, no car would have a top speed greater than 120 km/h, no car would come with high performance summer tires, or big brakes and calipers. In fact, we'd all be driving minivans and crossover suv.

And where does this drivel about mustangs being a good bang for the buck come from? Over here, the 2010 gt mustang with the v8 4.6 engine that makes a measly 315 hp, FIVE speed manual, and the optional track package has msrp of about 41000. The 370z touring with about 15 hp more out of a v6 with almost 1 litre less displacement, SIX speed manual with SRM, independent suspension, and the sport package has an MSRP of 45500. Hardly a bargain considering the z is faster, better quality, better fit and finish, better reliability, better image, and better resale value.

Car making should be about innovation, about new technology. That's why they have engineers, and an R and D budget. Their objective should be coming up with something new, refreshing and updating their product, and push themselves to their limits, not just recycling stale outdated products just because people keep buying them. Look at nissan, they created innovative new technology with the vvel, synchrorev, and in the future possibly direct injection. did they have to do that? no. would people buy nissans if they didn't? for sure.

Speaking of innovation, i heard that nascar has recently taken a very bold and innovative step and will begin experimenting with fuel injection

You really do not think the new 5.0L is innovation? The American muscle car pretty much died in the 70/80 era because of very strict environmental law changes. We are finally see a return to what American power cars are about, no not your 80,000USD Corvette, but your average American can own power (Mustang/Camaro/G8 GXP/etc.).

The bold part of your quote, I would say it takes more driving skill to handle a Mustang around a track than a 370z.
Nascar has very strict rules on what the competitors can alter in their cars, guess what, it is like that in every race league. Yes, some are a bit more R&D into modern technology, but Nascar has found its niche and attempts to keep its viewers happy.

m4a1mustang · 12-19-2009, 11:31 AM

Yeah -- if you want technical innovation in racing watch something else. NASCAR is oriented towards close competition (though tour one of the top teams shops and you will be surprised at the F1-level technologies they use to perfect the very old school tech that's actually in the cars).

There has been a lot of pressure to modernize the cars -- their main worry was being able to keep tight control over everything, but with standardized ECUs ala F1 there is no reason not to proceed with bringing in the direct-injected V8s that have been in the works for a while.

VW also wants in, but they are hesitant to join if they can't easily justify using NASCAR to help sell their cars. Given the state of GM and Chrysler, the only two strong manufacturers in NASCAR right now are Ford and Toyota, so making changes to attract other makes is a smart business decision.

It's also a hedge against future "green" attacks that Congress will mount against NASCAR's carburetor engines.

It's all very simple. If you cloud your thought with hate, however, comprehension just flies over the top of your head.

12-19-2009, 10:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	We should just forget about it. This is a 370Z forum so naturally there will be a lot of domestic hate. It just so happens that Pharmacist falls under the "moronic domestic hate" category. It goes the same way on the Mustang boards... Only a handful of guys there are willing to recognize the capabilities of the 370. The car guys here appreciate just about every car and know that the Mustang is a formidable track and strip car. The 2010 GT with Track Pack (i.e. Sport Package) is a formidable base for a track car -- .94 G on relatively skinny tires, 70 mph slalom... it's a very good car. Obviously it's not as track oriented as the smaller, 2-seat 370, but in the right hands I am absolutely positive a 2010 GT could school some bench racing, trash talking 370 driver on any track. I'm sure the more technically oriented guys here will agree that this board has its share of bench racers and trash talkers who couldn't drive a 6MT to a 14 second quarter mile time if their lives depended on it. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

12-19-2009, 08:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 53	If the General would have made the new Camaro 300-400 lbs less, I'd be a Camaro owner right now. __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

12-19-2009, 11:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 53	Yeah, I know m4a1 - I read the reviews and just about every one of them rang the same tune: "For having a live axle, you aren't going to find a better handling car" was the general statement. Like I said, I'm a Chevy guy, but kudos to Ford for making what looks to be a very solid entry here for 2011. Unfortunately, I'm too damn stubborn to let the bench racers rule the world, and I shall continue to fight the good fight. __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

12-19-2009, 11:17 AM	#12 (permalink)
LiquidZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,940 Drives: Mag. Black 2009 370Z Rep Power: 705	I have been waiting for this for a long, long time. I might have to check out down the line. People seriously need to stop bashing the live axle. I tracked my S197 Mustang, and I had nothing short of an excellent experience with it. __________________

12-19-2009, 11:31 AM	#15 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	Yeah -- if you want technical innovation in racing watch something else. NASCAR is oriented towards close competition (though tour one of the top teams shops and you will be surprised at the F1-level technologies they use to perfect the very old school tech that's actually in the cars). There has been a lot of pressure to modernize the cars -- their main worry was being able to keep tight control over everything, but with standardized ECUs ala F1 there is no reason not to proceed with bringing in the direct-injected V8s that have been in the works for a while. VW also wants in, but they are hesitant to join if they can't easily justify using NASCAR to help sell their cars. Given the state of GM and Chrysler, the only two strong manufacturers in NASCAR right now are Ford and Toyota, so making changes to attract other makes is a smart business decision. It's also a hedge against future "green" attacks that Congress will mount against NASCAR's carburetor engines. It's all very simple. If you cloud your thought with hate, however, comprehension just flies over the top of your head. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

12-19-2009, 11:18 AM	#13 (permalink)
Pharmacist A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,249 Drives: 09 370z Sport 6MT Rep Power: 19	Yes, high power might help play catch up on the straights and may help keep up with weaker but better handling cars. But tighter more technical tracks may negate this advantage. Regardless, taking corners is more fun, and requires better engineering and driving skill than simply going fast in a straight line. Again, if it was all about a car meeting daily driver needs and nothing more, then no car would come with more than 250 hp, no car would have a top speed greater than 120 km/h, no car would come with high performance summer tires, or big brakes and calipers. In fact, we'd all be driving minivans and crossover suv. And where does this drivel about mustangs being a good bang for the buck come from? Over here, the 2010 gt mustang with the v8 4.6 engine that makes a measly 315 hp, FIVE speed manual, and the optional track package has msrp of about 41000. The 370z touring with about 15 hp more out of a v6 with almost 1 litre less displacement, SIX speed manual with SRM, independent suspension, and the sport package has an MSRP of 45500. Hardly a bargain considering the z is faster, better quality, better fit and finish, better reliability, better image, and better resale value. Car making should be about innovation, about new technology. That's why they have engineers, and an R and D budget. Their objective should be coming up with something new, refreshing and updating their product, and push themselves to their limits, not just recycling stale outdated products just because people keep buying them. Look at nissan, they created innovative new technology with the vvel, synchrorev, and in the future possibly direct injection. did they have to do that? no. would people buy nissans if they didn't? for sure. Speaking of innovation, i heard that nascar has recently taken a very bold and innovative step and will begin experimenting with fuel injection

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