New Mustang 5.0L confirmed HP

MightyBobo · 12-19-2009, 08:18 AM

So...what if the Mustang turned a faster lap time than the 370Z at a price less than, Pharmacist?

Old technology or not, >400 ponies is a good chunk of power, and you're doing nothing but being elitist/ignorant to any car that doesn't have an IRS. Just because you don't like the Mustang doesn't mean that legions of other people should. By virtue of viewing the 370 like you view the Mustang, the 370 is a pig (almost 3400 lbs - slightly less than my old 4th Gen Camaro) of a 2-seater sports car that should weigh less and be smaller considering it has NO utility at all.

Ford has proven that it can make a solid selling car out of the Mustang, and just because you're jealous that Ford can sell them like hot cakes shows. The VAST majority of people who buy them are going to do nothing but daily drive them anyway, so what do they care if the car has an IRS or a live axle? For that matter, wheres YOUR track credentials? You talk a lot of smack for someone who I don't recall posting any auto-x or track stories...

Pharmacist · 12-19-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

So...what if the Mustang turned a faster lap time than the 370Z at a price less than, Pharmacist?

Old technology or not, >400 ponies is a good chunk of power, and you're doing nothing but being elitist/ignorant to any car that doesn't have an IRS. Just because you don't like the Mustang doesn't mean that legions of other people should. By virtue of viewing the 370 like you view the Mustang, the 370 is a pig (almost 3400 lbs - slightly less than my old 4th Gen Camaro) of a 2-seater sports car that should weigh less and be smaller considering it has NO utility at all.

Ford has proven that it can make a solid selling car out of the Mustang, and just because you're jealous that Ford can sell them like hot cakes shows. The VAST majority of people who buy them are going to do nothing but daily drive them anyway, so what do they care if the car has an IRS or a live axle? For that matter, wheres YOUR track credentials? You talk a lot of smack for someone who I don't recall posting any auto-x or track stories...

so much nonsene in your post. first of all, a stock mustang would NEVER defeat a 370z on a track actually oriented towards handling and cornering ability.

there you go again with the typical american mentality. you make it seem like a car is no more than the sum of its horsepower. 400 hp big deal. you can get a turbo 4 banger evo X with minimal mods to make that much power, of course it also has excellent handling to go with it.

yeah, i guess all those other automakers that abandoned solid axles in favor of irs were all motivated by ignorance and elitism

and weight-wise, the 370z may not be light but it's not very heavy either compared to other cars of similar size. heck the aston one 77 with all its fancy carbon fibre body i think is only 100 lbs less than the z.

yeah, ford is able to sell lots of mustangs, so what? dodge also made a successful selling car out of the caravan, and toyota sells tens of thousands of corollas. what's your point? Meanwhile, mclaren had a tough time selling the f1. what is your point?

and yeah, the majority of ferrari and lambo owners never track their cars and only drive them on the street to show off. so what? should ferrari cut costs by downgrading the 458 italia back to solid axle, front engine, 5 sp manual, sliding one piston calipers, etc.....

and what do my track credentials have any relevance? this is a topic about the mustang, not my driving abilities. focus on topic

MightyBobo · 12-19-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

so much nonsene in your post. first of all, a stock mustang would NEVER defeat a 370z on a track actually oriented towards handling and cornering ability.

there you go again with the typical american mentality. you make it seem like a car is no more than the sum of its horsepower. 400 hp big deal. you can get a turbo 4 banger evo X with minimal mods to make that much power, of course it also has excellent handling to go with it.

yeah, i guess all those other automakers that abandoned solid axles in favor of irs were all motivated by ignorance and elitism

and weight-wise, the 370z may not be light but it's not very heavy either compared to other cars of similar size. heck the aston one 77 with all its fancy carbon fibre body i think is only 100 lbs less than the z.

yeah, ford is able to sell lots of mustangs, so what? dodge also made a successful selling car out of the caravan, and toyota sells tens of thousands of corollas. what's your point? Meanwhile, mclaren had a tough time selling the f1. what is your point?

and yeah, the majority of ferrari and lambo owners never track their cars and only drive them on the street to show off. so what? should ferrari cut costs by downgrading the 458 italia back to solid axle, front engine, 5 sp manual, sliding one piston calipers, etc.....

and what do my track credentials have any relevance? this is a topic about the mustang, not my driving abilities. focus on topic

You underestimate the ability for a car that has a LOT of power to be able to pick up a lot of time on long straights, and you also underestimate the abilities of competent drivers to do what you perceive as unimaginable with a car. Case in point, Sabine at the Nurburgring, racing that silly delivery truck at times that'd blow your mind. I'd link the Youtube video, but sadly, Im at work.

You're misunderstanding my common sense with your so-called American mentality. I can understand and accept the fact that a car with enough power but less handling can POTENTIALLY beat a car on a track that has less power but better handling. I can ALSO accept the fact that spec Miatas with **** for power can smoke higher powered cars on a track. Many times, it just depends on the driver. And that is the part of the equation you are forgetting here. Furthermore, you're also forgetting the fact that the vast majority of people who purchase either of these cars has any track experience, and your amazing handling means precisely squat on the roads for the most part, minus zipping and zooming through traffic, and doing other illegal maneuvers.

Im not stating that anyone should cut costs or whatever, Im merely stating that Ford has found a method that works for them in building and selling the Mustang. To many, its a very attractive car, and reasonably priced at that. It has plenty of power for stoplight-to-stoplight racing, and given the right sticky rubber with some decent pads, I bet it wouldn't do half bad at the track. Sure, not quite as hot as if it'd have an IRS, but who cares as long as the driver is having fun?

Your driving repertoire has all the relevance in the world here - you're so quick to thumb your nose about the "ancient" technology here, what makes YOU the guy everyone should listen to about these dinosaurs on wheels? Have you driven one on the track and found it so terrifying you couldn't stand it anymore, and needed something with an IRS?

m4a1mustang · 12-19-2009, 10:59 AM

We should just forget about it. This is a 370Z forum so naturally there will be a lot of domestic hate. It just so happens that Pharmacist falls under the "moronic domestic hate" category.

It goes the same way on the Mustang boards... Only a handful of guys there are willing to recognize the capabilities of the 370.

The car guys here appreciate just about every car and know that the Mustang is a formidable track and strip car. The 2010 GT with Track Pack (i.e. Sport Package) is a formidable base for a track car -- .94 G on relatively skinny tires, 70 mph slalom... it's a very good car. Obviously it's not as track oriented as the smaller, 2-seat 370, but in the right hands I am absolutely positive a 2010 GT could school some bench racing, trash talking 370 driver on any track.

I'm sure the more technically oriented guys here will agree that this board has its share of bench racers and trash talkers who couldn't drive a 6MT to a 14 second quarter mile time if their lives depended on it.

370Zsteve · 12-19-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

so much nonsene in your post. first of all, a stock mustang would NEVER defeat a 370z on a track actually oriented towards handling and cornering ability.

there you go again with the typical american mentality. you make it seem like a car is no more than the sum of its horsepower. 400 hp big deal. you can get a turbo 4 banger evo X with minimal mods to make that much power, of course it also has excellent handling to go with it.

yeah, i guess all those other automakers that abandoned solid axles in favor of irs were all motivated by ignorance and elitism

and weight-wise, the 370z may not be light but it's not very heavy either compared to other cars of similar size. heck the aston one 77 with all its fancy carbon fibre body i think is only 100 lbs less than the z.

yeah, ford is able to sell lots of mustangs, so what? dodge also made a successful selling car out of the caravan, and toyota sells tens of thousands of corollas. what's your point? Meanwhile, mclaren had a tough time selling the f1. what is your point?

and yeah, the majority of ferrari and lambo owners never track their cars and only drive them on the street to show off. so what? should ferrari cut costs by downgrading the 458 italia back to solid axle, front engine, 5 sp manual, sliding one piston calipers, etc.....

and what do my track credentials have any relevance? this is a topic about the mustang, not my driving abilities. focus on topic

I'd take a mustang over an Evo any day of the week
dodge caravan is one helluva van
mclaren F1 was killed by Ford's own Shelby 500
every ferrari owners group I've attended at Lime Rock refutes your contention they don't track their cars
you talk a lot of nonsense for someone who has no track cred at all
370Z is overweight, worst feature of the design

Pharmacist · 12-20-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

[LIST][*]I'd take a mustang over an Evo any day of the week

you just posted your own fail right there. Evo are some of the fastest cars out there, with some of the latest technology, double clutch tranny, advanced awd, and a turbo 4-banger that can easily push in excess of 400 hp. It would easily run circles around your precious fintstone mustang.

Quote:

[*]dodge caravan is one helluva van

good to see the soccer mon inside you come out.

Quote:

[*]mclaren F1 was killed by Ford's own Shelby 500

you really believe one of the world's greatest cars to be ever made was defeated by a piece of junk ford? you're even more delusional than you appear to be. only thing that killed the f1 was the sticker price.

Quote:

[*]370Z is overweight, worst feature of the design

no it isn't. weights just about the same as other cars in its category. cayman, boxster, 135i, 911 carrera, etc...

how much does your precious mustang weigh anyway?

theDreamer · 12-20-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

you just posted your own fail right there. Evo are some of the fastest cars out there, with some of the latest technology, double clutch tranny, advanced awd, and a turbo 4-banger that can easily push in excess of 400 hp. It would easily run circles around your precious fintstone mustang.
good to see the soccer mon inside you come out.

you really believe one of the world's greatest cars to be ever made was defeated by a piece of junk ford? you're even more delusional than you appear to be. only thing that killed the f1 was the sticker price.
no it isn't. weights just about the same as other cars in its category. cayman, boxster, 135i, 911 carrera, etc...

how much does your precious mustang weigh anyway?

Sorry, I do not believe a turbo 4 banger is good at all. One reason I stepped away from the Evo in the end. Also, from the test drives I did and research, the Evo really loses power above 90MPH, the Mustang will continue into the 130 just like the Z. The Mustang 5.0L already has 400 horsepower, and the double clutch is nice but it is still slow on the shifts.

The Mustang currently is just below 3,500 pounds for the base GT, about 275 over the base 370z. Considering the other American muscle cars are in excess of 4,000 pounds I would say the Mustang is doing something right.

The Porsche line is 3,000 or less actually, the BMW is around 3,300 so it is on par with what the base 370z has. Then again the stock BMW has leather seats and other "luxury" features you only get in the Touring Z and the touring Z is above 3,300 (I believe around 3,400 actually). Nissan could have shed some weight, but cost would have increased and with the increase in safety standards it pushes weight up. Though not really sure cost would increase by 10,000USD but for a hundred pounds of weight we might pay an extra 500 or 1,000USD. I am sure many here would have been happy with that trade off.

Pharmacist · 12-20-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Sorry, I do not believe a turbo 4 banger is good at all. One reason I stepped away from the Evo in the end. Also, from the test drives I did and research, the Evo really loses power above 90MPH, the Mustang will continue into the 130 just like the Z. The Mustang 5.0L already has 400 horsepower, and the double clutch is nice but it is still slow on the shifts.

The Mustang currently is just below 3,500 pounds for the base GT, about 275 over the base 370z. Considering the other American muscle cars are in excess of 4,000 pounds I would say the Mustang is doing something right.

The Porsche line is 3,000 or less actually, the BMW is around 3,300 so it is on par with what the base 370z has. Then again the stock BMW has leather seats and other "luxury" features you only get in the Touring Z and the touring Z is above 3,300 (I believe around 3,400 actually). Nissan could have shed some weight, but cost would have increased and with the increase in safety standards it pushes weight up. Though not really sure cost would increase by 10,000USD but for a hundred pounds of weight we might pay an extra 500 or 1,000USD. I am sure many here would have been happy with that trade off.

the evo is rather fast in a straight line. good acceleration with turbos. and the awd give it a lot of traction. still, you're thinking like a typical american, only thinking about straight line performance. i'm talking about track performance. the evo is a formidable track car, and the very advanced awd system gives it remarkable cornering ability.

where do you get your weight figures for porsche? the cayman s is about 3150, and even the base cayman is over 3000 that is without the limited slip diff, bigger wheels and tires, interior luxuries and amenities etc....
a stripped down base carrera with manual gearbox is 3400. the 135i I believe is at least 3500 for a base model without options.

the 370z touring w/o sport or nav is listed as 3230 for manual and 3260 for auto on nissan website. So the z isn't really all that heavy compared to competition. it weights just about right.

theDreamer · 12-20-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

the evo is rather fast in a straight line. good acceleration with turbos. and the awd give it a lot of traction. still, you're thinking like a typical american, only thinking about straight line performance. i'm talking about track performance. the evo is a formidable track car, and the very advanced awd system gives it remarkable cornering ability.

where do you get your weight figures for porsche? the cayman s is about 3150, and even the base cayman is over 3000 that is without the limited slip diff, bigger wheels and tires, interior luxuries and amenities etc....
a stripped down base carrera with manual gearbox is 3400. the 135i I believe is at least 3500 for a base model without options.

the 370z touring w/o sport or nav is listed as 3230 for manual and 3260 for auto on nissan website. So the z isn't really all that heavy compared to competition. it weights just about right.

1) The base Z is 3230, the touring Z is closer to 3300.
2) The Porsche numbers are directly from Porsche themselves, same as Nissan numbers. The Z is a great car do not get me wrong, but others have found ways to lighten their 2 seat cars. A base 135i is closer to 3400, actually 3373.
3) I am talking about track racing not straight line racing. Hate to break it to you, but I hate straight line racing. The Evo AWD is nice and will help in the corners, but the Mustang has Torque and top end that the Evo lacks for the track. Now the Evo with a few mods is very quick and opens up nicely, but it still lacks top end power.
4) Again, a 4 banger turbo is not very good in my mind. Lets slap a quality turbo on a Z or Mustang and see what happens. Plus the Evo is an econo car with a turbo.

370Zsteve · 12-19-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

So...what if the Mustang turned a faster lap time than the 370Z at a price less than, Pharmacist?

Old technology or not, >400 ponies is a good chunk of power, and you're doing nothing but being elitist/ignorant to any car that doesn't have an IRS. Just because you don't like the Mustang doesn't mean that legions of other people should. By virtue of viewing the 370 like you view the Mustang, the 370 is a pig (almost 3400 lbs - slightly less than my old 4th Gen Camaro) of a 2-seater sports car that should weigh less and be smaller considering it has NO utility at all.

Ford has proven that it can make a solid selling car out of the Mustang, and just because you're jealous that Ford can sell them like hot cakes shows. The VAST majority of people who buy them are going to do nothing but daily drive them anyway, so what do they care if the car has an IRS or a live axle? For that matter, wheres YOUR track credentials? You talk a lot of smack for someone who I don't recall posting any auto-x or track stories...

Pharmacist = troll

12-19-2009, 08:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 53	So...what if the Mustang turned a faster lap time than the 370Z at a price less than, Pharmacist? Old technology or not, >400 ponies is a good chunk of power, and you're doing nothing but being elitist/ignorant to any car that doesn't have an IRS. Just because you don't like the Mustang doesn't mean that legions of other people should. By virtue of viewing the 370 like you view the Mustang, the 370 is a pig (almost 3400 lbs - slightly less than my old 4th Gen Camaro) of a 2-seater sports car that should weigh less and be smaller considering it has NO utility at all. Ford has proven that it can make a solid selling car out of the Mustang, and just because you're jealous that Ford can sell them like hot cakes shows. The VAST majority of people who buy them are going to do nothing but daily drive them anyway, so what do they care if the car has an IRS or a live axle? For that matter, wheres YOUR track credentials? You talk a lot of smack for someone who I don't recall posting any auto-x or track stories... __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

12-19-2009, 10:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	We should just forget about it. This is a 370Z forum so naturally there will be a lot of domestic hate. It just so happens that Pharmacist falls under the "moronic domestic hate" category. It goes the same way on the Mustang boards... Only a handful of guys there are willing to recognize the capabilities of the 370. The car guys here appreciate just about every car and know that the Mustang is a formidable track and strip car. The 2010 GT with Track Pack (i.e. Sport Package) is a formidable base for a track car -- .94 G on relatively skinny tires, 70 mph slalom... it's a very good car. Obviously it's not as track oriented as the smaller, 2-seat 370, but in the right hands I am absolutely positive a 2010 GT could school some bench racing, trash talking 370 driver on any track. I'm sure the more technically oriented guys here will agree that this board has its share of bench racers and trash talkers who couldn't drive a 6MT to a 14 second quarter mile time if their lives depended on it. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Gran Tursimo 5 release date confirmed	Devil Z	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	4	08-24-2009 11:21 AM
Shogun Rua vs Dragon Machida confirmed for UFC 104	molamann	Sports	7	06-08-2009 11:25 PM
JWT clutch and JWT flywheel CONFIRMED WORKING	travisjb	Engine & Drivetrain	16	06-05-2009 03:31 AM
DDMotorsports: Work Wheels Confirmed 370Z Fitments!!!	M.Bonanni	Wheels & Tires	16	04-15-2009 02:24 PM
WANTED: Confirmed Canadian Custom Exterior/Interior Order	Pylon	Canada	5	03-22-2009 12:17 AM