Dealership Problems with Consumption Test

[MattP725]

Has anyone else had any issues with consumption tests at the dealership? I dropped my car off at Pine Belt Nissan in Toms River, NJ (they told me I couldn't make an appointment since the car has never been there before ) and now they are telling me that I have to pay $40 for an oil change before they will do the test because "they don't know how much oil is in there". I just did an oil change on Sunday with full synthetic and a mobil 1 filter... she complained that she didn't have any maintenance records and I told her she could open my trunk and see all the receipts including the one for Sunday.

They refused to do anything further so I told them that I would take my car somewhere else and I would have someone pickup my keys ASAP.

My argument is why do I have to pay $40 for any part of a warranty issue where my engine is obviously not performing correctly with less than 20k on the odometer especially when it is an unnecessary service to do the consumption test. The diagram specifically says to fill the engine until the dipstick reads full... says nothing about needing a Nissan oil change that I can remember.

I am going to call another dealership and also Nissan Consumer Affairs.

Please by all means avoid Pinebelt Nissan of Toms River.

[Neo187H]

Consumption test guidelines for warranty usually state that the dealer must be the one doing the oil changes, top offs and checks. It throws everything totally out of wack when the customer is possibly changing the oil level between when they start the test and conclude it is consuming oil. Also every engine takes a slightly different amount of oil to reach a certain point on the dipstick so they might need to know exactly how much oil was put in in order to determine how much it's using down the line.

[Augustus]

The demand that you get an oil change probably isn't because it actually needs a Nissan-performed oil change. It's likely because the consumption test requires it.

I would suspect that Nissan requires documentation on filling with 5.25 quarts on day X. They'll then seal the oil system (no-tamper tape), then you'll come back 1,000 (or whatever they tell you) miles later and they'll drain the system to see how much oil is left. If you've lost enough, then you fail the consumption test and the warranty kicks in.

Point is, Nissan corporate probably requires both a verified start & end oil level for warranty issues. Verified = their techs do it, not just a Pep Boys receipt for 6 quarts of Mobile 1 and the customer's word that 5.25 quarts went in. Just sayin', that's likely how the dealership and/or Nissan sees it.

I don't disagree that it sucks that you just changed it. Nor do I agree that you should have to pay the $40 for the change. The dealership ought to cough that up as a courtesy. Or at least agree that you'll be reimbursed if the car fails the test. Maybe you can get them to return your fresh Mobile1 oil & filter back to you for your next change? Then at least you're not totally SOL.

Seriously though, good luck. I bet it will work out.

[MattP725]

If you read the TSB it goes off of dipstic level... they don't drain and measure the oil. Based upon that it shouldn't matter who does the changes...

Also to Neo's point... you can't void a warranty by doing your own changes as long as your changes don't cause the damage. This is a know issue and I have all records so there is no reason to suspect I caused any damage.

I agree 100% with Augustus that they should cover the cost of the oil change but the service manager scoffed at me when I suggested it. I actually thought about your counter point that they should cover it and I will pay it if the car passes the test.

Again I saw nothing in the TSB that suggested Nissan had to do anything with the oil other than make sure it came up to the top of the dipstic before the test. They are just coming up with excuses to earn revenue off this issue.

[Augustus]

Originally Posted by MattP725

If you read the TSB it goes off of dipstic level... they don't drain and measure the oil. Based upon that it shouldn't matter who does the changes...

Cool. Interesting, no, I hadn't read/seen the TSB. I assumed that it was a more precise measurement of oil levels than just off the dipstick. Especially in this case of potentially getting a new engine.

Out of curiosity, how much oil is your Z consuming? Do you always use Mobile1?

Originally Posted by MattP725

They are just coming up with excuses to earn revenue off this issue.

What are you talking about? A dealership would never do such a thing!

[Mt Tam I am]

Originally Posted by MattP725

Has anyone else had any issues with consumption tests at the dealership? I dropped my car off at Pine Belt Nissan in Toms River, NJ (they told me I couldn't make an appointment since the car has never been there before ) and now they are telling me that I have to pay $40 for an oil change before they will do the test because "they don't know how much oil is in there". I just did an oil change on Sunday with full synthetic and a mobil 1 filter... she complained that she didn't have any maintenance records and I told her she could open my trunk and see all the receipts including the one for Sunday.

They refused to do anything further so I told them that I would take my car somewhere else and I would have someone pickup my keys ASAP.

My argument is why do I have to pay $40 for any part of a warranty issue where my engine is obviously not performing correctly with less than 20k on the odometer especially when it is an unnecessary service to do the consumption test. The diagram specifically says to fill the engine until the dipstick reads full... says nothing about needing a Nissan oil change that I can remember.

I am going to call another dealership and also Nissan Consumer Affairs.

Please by all means avoid Pinebelt Nissan of Toms River.

Opposite experience. I came for an oil change, told them about how much oil I was consuming. 1 quart per 500 miles.

The service manager said no oil change, just add oil till the dipstick is full. I protested but that was part of the test. I came back twice to add oil and in less than 1000 miles the test was over and Nissan lost. In the end, that engine was replaced with my current.

[bvl]

Originally Posted by MattP725

If you read the TSB it goes off of dipstic level... they don't drain and measure the oil. Based upon that it shouldn't matter who does the changes...

Also to Neo's point... you can't void a warranty by doing your own changes as long as your changes don't cause the damage. This is a know issue and I have all records so there is no reason to suspect I caused any damage.

I agree 100% with Augustus that they should cover the cost of the oil change but the service manager scoffed at me when I suggested it. I actually thought about your counter point that they should cover it and I will pay it if the car passes the test.

Again I saw nothing in the TSB that suggested Nissan had to do anything with the oil other than make sure it came up to the top of the dipstic before the test. They are just coming up with excuses to earn revenue off this issue.

Has everyone lost their minds? Free oil change because you *think* you have a problem?

Come on folks, lets be reasonable here. If you did your own oil change and you want someone to follow a *procedure*, then I don't care if it was done 10 minutes ago: I would dump the oil too. Why? Because *I* did not do that oil change. I did not physically drain it all and re-fill with 5.125 qt of oil (IIRC exact amount with filter change from FSM).

This is really common sense.

Yes the procedure measures MM delta on reading over time, but still there is some relativity. What if one dipstick is just a smidge different then another. It may show full at 2mm short of F. You want to measure the relative delta.

I am pretty sure *plenty* of people fill with 5qt not 5.125 qt, so you would be starting just a little low wouldn't you?

If you think you have consumption problems, its not going to go away.

Why not wait until your next scheduled change, make the appointment, ask the service manager to please start that procedure now. You pay for a service you need anyway, and you put yourself in the right situation to follow the Nissan procedure to see if you do have a problem.

No fuss. No muss.

Asking for a free oil change to me, is unreasonable in this situation. There is no proof you have a problem. Dealer gives it to you for free, you have no issue...then they are out the time and materials with no way to recoup it.

If it was you running the business, I think you would feel the same way. If not...you would not be in business very long.

- b

[tjlazer]

^ well said. They have to start the test the right way and that would mean they fill it up on day one. Doesn't matter if Joe Schmo filled it up yesterday or 6 months ago, they have to make sure the proper amount and correct oil is in the engine. Makes sense to me.

As far as the Oil consumtion test goes. I assume you have to pay Nissan for the oil changes that they do though. And $40 is a STEAL of a deal for oil if that is what they will be charging for each oil change interval. But I question if it's Nissan Esther oil? I would check into that. (it's usually over $90 at the Nissan dealers from what I have seen, I do my own...)

[Cmike2780]

$40 for an oil change is kind of cheap, considering they usually charge $90 for the Nissan Ester. Be sure they aren't using regular oil.

[Augustus]

The OP isn't trying to scam the dealer out of a free oil change. The issue is that the OP believes his Z is having oil consumption issues, and this particular dealer insists that they must charge him for a full oil change to begin the in-warranty process of confirming or denying that the problem exists.

If a full oil change is required by Nissan for the test (which as others have said, it isn't), then the dealership should have recourse from Nissan for the oil change cost, not the customer. If the full oil change isn't required, then it's just the dealer's service department being ignorant or willfully spiteful.

IMHO, the solution is for the dealer to charge you for the oil change but agree to refund the money if there's a problem. Or do it for free but with the agreement that the OP pays them if no problem is found. The dealership has a right to cover their margins, but the OP also has a right to warranty coverage not predicated upon paying for unnecessary services.

I hate to say it, but this is an example of where you can run into problems by doing your own service / oil changes. No, a dealership can't deny you a warranty claim. And I absolutely agree that it's cheaper & more satisfying to do your own oil changes. But a dealership has the right to question your methods if you do your own service and problems arise. I have to think that had the OP been taking the Z to this dealer for regular service, then they wouldn't have given him any crap about needing another oil change. A), they would have done the change, and B) you'd have an established & ongoing relationship with the service department.

[MattP725]

Guys you're not getting my point... I'm not looking for a free oil change, I am not asking them to measure the oil level through quarts... that isn't how they test for consumption... you will NEVER see a dealership measuring the oil in vs oil out on a consumption test... they simply make sure the dipstic is at F and measure in MM the drop in the level after X number of miles.

It matters not how cheap it is or who did it or when it was done... it is X level at start and X level after so many miles.

If you don't understand what I am saying check the service bulletin which is direct from Nissan on how they are to identify and resolve the problem.

BVL are you suggesting that losing about a quart and a half of oil after 1500 miles isn't an indication of an issue? I've owned lots of cars and performed all my own maintenance and never once misread an issue or caused a premature failure of any part. I know how to read an odometer and a dipstick.

Since when did people start believing that they had to pay dealerships for warranty claims and investigations? What if they told you guys with steering lock failures that you need to pay to replace the battery first so that we can acurrately measure the signal to the solenoid?

I know I'm going off on a tangent and it is a measily $40 at the end of the day but does no one else think this is crazy that you have to pay the dealerships money for unnecessary maintenance in order to test for an issue that Nissan is ulimately responsible for?

Here is the TSB for those that are still not convinced that this is unnecessary... read the first few pages and it says multiple times if oil reaches any point past the end of the dipstick, add oil and follow the remainder of the procedures... you only are required to change the oil if there isn't ANY oil on the dipstick.

http://www.the370z.com/attachments/3...he370z_com.pdf

[Augustus]

Originally Posted by MattP725

Since when did people start believing that they had to pay dealerships for warranty claims and investigations? What if they told you guys with steering lock failures that you need to pay to replace the battery first so that we can acurrately measure the signal to the solenoid?

Exactly.

[MattP725]

Originally Posted by Augustus

The OP isn't trying to scam the dealer out of a free oil change. The issue is that the OP believes his Z is having oil consumption issues, and this particular dealer insists that they must charge him for a full oil change to begin the in-warranty process of confirming or denying that the problem exists.

If a full oil change is required by Nissan for the test (which as others have said, it isn't), then the dealership should have recourse from Nissan for the oil change cost, not the customer. If the full oil change isn't required, then it's just the dealer's service department being ignorant or willfully spiteful.

IMHO, the solution is for the dealer to charge you for the oil change but agree to refund the money if there's a problem. Or do it for free but with the agreement that the OP pays them if no problem is found. The dealership has a right to cover their margins, but the OP also has a right to warranty coverage not predicated upon paying for unnecessary services.

I hate to say it, but this is an example of where you can run into problems by doing your own service / oil changes. No, a dealership can't deny you a warranty claim. And I absolutely agree that it's cheaper & more satisfying to do your own oil changes. But a dealership has the right to question your methods if you do your own service and problems arise. I have to think that had the OP been taking the Z to this dealer for regular service, then they wouldn't have given him any crap about needing another oil change. A), they would have done the change, and B) you'd have an established & ongoing relationship with the service department.

Very well put and I agree but I would assume that most of us here are enthusiasts and don't reguarly have or even need the dealership to perform maintenance on our cars. I wouldn't expect the majority (not you) of people here to argue that I should have gotten my oil changes at the dealership since that isn't the norm around here. Should everyone here that hasn't been ripped off by dealer maintenance be subject to design issues at Nissan without recourse? I dunno the whole thing puts a really bad taste in my mouth and this is coming from someone that has 3 Nissans parked at his house right now.

[tjlazer]

I think that is how this process goes, though. They start the oil consumption test with an initial oil change, and you have to pay for it, and any subsiquent oil changes.

[MattP725]

Originally Posted by tjlazer

I think that is how this process goes, though. They start the oil consumption test with an initial oil change, and you have to pay for it, and any subsiquent oil changes.

Read the bulletin I posted.