Z35 motor theory

Originally Posted by ZBro16

Fun thread.

Firstly - regarding the post about Nissan progression and not Nissan fanboy appeasement: in the case of the Z is exceptionally important that Nissan at least somewhat caters to the fanboys. If it were an Altima we were talking about, then I would agree with progression. The vast majority of people buying Z cars are the Nissan fanboys. The general sports car buyer isn't buying Zs, he's looking at American V8s. The Mustang generally accounts for half the sports car sales in America. Why is this? Bang for the buck - the buyer gets a car that has a lot of power, sporty looks, and some day-to-day utility.

If the Z is to remain a two seater enthusiast's vehicle, Nissan needs to tread carefully for a number of reasons.

1) Pricing for package:

If Nissan decides to make a $50k Z, it'd better have 500 horsepower because of its level of competition. In that range, you're in Corvette territory. (the GT-R is a separate argument that I'll get to later) You're creeping on M3, RCF, CTS-V, Camaro ZL1/Z28, Mustang GT500 pricing. HEAVY HITTERS. Nissan can go one of two directions - they can make a 500 horsepower Z and go play with the next level of competition, or they can exercise the more likely option - bang for the buck. The Z has always been the bang for the buck corvette and the GT-R has always been the bang for the buck porsche. The difference now is the level of competition is the toughest it has ever been for either car.

2) Which segment do we play in?

To piggy back off of point one, no matter what Nissan does, the pricing is going to determine the segment it gets thrown into in the eyes of the general public and the media. Only the enthusiasts clamor "yeah my sports car costs $30k but it can whip your $80k porsche". However, the $30k-$40k range is becoming thinner. While it's highly unlikely the Z will go play in Miata/BRZ land, they very well could. However, the Z has never been about that since its inception. The sweet spot for this car will be the $30k-$40k range, as $30k is the cap for the Miata/BRZs of the world, while $40k is when you start getting into the more nicely equipped Mustang GTs of the world. In that range, Nissan can justify the extra price in the Z over a Miata because of the performance difference and justify the benefit in a Z over a Mustang GT because of the price difference as long as they do one thing - get point #1 right. The Z could possibly live in a segment all on its own (as it almost does currently). The only two seater in the US market below a Z is a Miata, and the next one up from it is a Vette. (I know things like the Alfa 4C and others are coming, which is why its essential that Nissan gets the pricing/segment stuff right.)

Now - these two things lead me to this: likely engine configuration.

If they get something really expensive for the platform, it will drive the cost of the car up, and the Z will die a la 300ZX TT. If they repeat the 3.7 in its current form, no one will be interested if the car shows up weighing 3300lbs.

What is likely for Nissan is they will either dump a ton of money into a new platform and reuse something from someone that's cheap or they will use an engine from somewhere else that gives them some versatility and will only modify the current platform. If they find a way to make a 2500lb Z with the current VQ in it, I feel that's a possible recipe for success.

I will bring the Q50 Eau Rouge into the equation - I felt that using the exact engine from the GT-R (hand built and all) was great for a proof of concept, but would result in an abysmal failure in production as it would result in a $100k+ car. However, the solution could be that they would begin mass producing a version of the VR38DETT that would result in less expensive production costs, or they could simply rework a bit of the VQ37VHR, twin turbo it, and have a more feasible answer. This way, you have a mass produced engine with cheaper production costs to make the Q50 Eau Rouge a true contender. However, the same argument could be made for the VR38DETT (the people's version). If you find a way to mass produce that motor, you could have a solution. An NA version for the Z, Q50, upcoming Q60 coupe and the other infinitis that use the 3.7, and a turbo version for the Eau Rouge.

On the other hand, the VQ37VHR with a revision that includes perhaps Direct Injection and maybe a KERS system could do the trick with a bit of weight reduction.

Benz motors won't do it. From a cost standpoint, I don't see the benefit if you have the ship the motors all over the world to build a car. If the Z has a German heart, it will alienate most of its fanbase. This will destroy the Z unless they build something that could cannibalize Mustang sales to make up for the loss of the Z fanboys (HIGHLY unlikely). A four-cyl motor won't do it either unless it's a game changer from Nissan (350hp/300tq or something like it). Even Mazda knows that, while you can make a lighter platform, the American market won't respond well to a decrease in horsepower. You're better off keeping the numbers the same or better, because the meathead drivers of the American car market look straight at the horsepower figure. The educated enthusiasts and drivers will look at power combined with suspension layout, power-to-weight ratio, and drivetrain efficiency to ascertain the capabilities of a car, but sadly those people make up a very small number of sales. Even if they took 1000lbs off the car's weight, a power figure below 300hp in this car will destroy its image around its competition, and the Z35 could be the last Z car we ever see.