Nismo or boss ?

/Angelo350Z/ · 05-29-2013, 07:45 AM

You guys are right. Cars with a solid axle will perform as well on a track as a car with IRS. Look, I can post pics of a vehicle exiting a corner as well. Unfortunately, it doesn't show how fast it's going, or how slow it is in relation to the cars around it.

Bottom line, with all things being equal: power, torque, weight, engine layout, and weight, a car with IRS will put power to the ground more efficiently than a car with a solid rear axle. There's really no denying it.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

You guys are right. Cars with a solid axle will perform as well on a track as a car with IRS. Look, I can post pics of a vehicle exiting a corner as well. Unfortunately, it doesn't show how fast it's going, or how slow it is in relation to the cars around it.

Bottom line, with all things being equal: power, torque, weight, engine layout, and weight, a car with IRS will put power to the ground more efficiently than a car with a solid rear axle. There's really no denying it.

No one is denying it. But you guys are making it sound like it's impossible for a SRA car to perform when it's been proven time and time again that they can. Even when those with experience say that their setups are very settled, it's still impossible because it's a solid axle, and well, if you guys say it can't, then it can't!

And like it has been mentioned many times before, for an IRS setup to be better than a well sorted SRA, the geometry has to be right. There are more mediocre independent rear suspension setups out there than there are good ones.

StangerGT · 05-29-2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

No one is denying it. But you guys are making it sound like it's impossible for a SRA car to perform when it's been proven time and time again that they can. Even when those with experience say that their setups are very settled, it's still impossible because it's a solid axle, and well, if you guys say it can't, then it can't!

And like it has been mentioned many times before, for an IRS setup to be better than a well sorted SRA, the geometry has to be right. There are more mediocre independent rear suspension setups out there than there are good ones.

Also Id like to mention that in my pic... i said... i planted the throttle... soooo theres a pic + first hand information...

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StangerGT

Also Id like to mention that in my pic... i said... i planted the throttle... soooo theres a pic + first hand information...

You're still lying. Angelo says you can't do it, so you can't.

StangerGT · 05-29-2013, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

Bottom line, with all things being equal: power, torque, weight, engine layout, and weight, a car with A Better driver will put power to the ground more efficiently than a car without. There's really no denying it.

fixed it!

Spikuh · 05-29-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

You guys are right. Cars with a solid axle will perform as well on a track as a car with IRS. Look, I can post pics of a vehicle exiting a corner as well. Unfortunately, it doesn't show how fast it's going, or how slow it is in relation to the cars around it.

Bottom line, with all things being equal: power, torque, weight, engine layout, and weight, a car with IRS will put power to the ground more efficiently than a car with a solid rear axle. There's really no denying it.

Wrong.

This:

(Also note, this is not even that aggressive on stance, there is far worse.)

Will never put down power as efficiently as this:

Which will never put down power as efficiently as this:

or this:

How effectively a vehicle puts power down depends entirely on the setup and what that setup is designed to do. It really is that simple.

Just FYI, the 240sx is an IRS setup.

So let's do a quick mind exercise. Take that first 240sx, lean the rears out even more and make the stance super crazy, then build it so that has the same paper stats as a 5.0. Line them up, put them down a strip and then around a track. Who is going to win?

According to you, the 240sx will win....because IRS. To anyone with a pair of eyes, the 5.0 will destroy it.

/Angelo350Z/ · 05-29-2013, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

Wrong.

This:

(Also note, this is not even that aggressive on stance, there is far worse.)

Will never put down power as efficiently as this:

Which will never put down power as efficiently as this:

or this:

How effectively a vehicle puts power down depends entirely on the setup and what that setup is designed to do. It really is that simple.

Just FYI, the 240sx is an IRS setup.

So let's do a quick mind exercise. Take that first 240sx, lean the rears out even more and make the stance super crazy, then build it so that has the same paper stats as a 5.0. Line them up, put them down a strip and then around a track. Who is going to win?

According to you, the 240sx will win....because IRS. To anyone with a pair of eyes, the 5.0 will destroy it.

Did you miss the point where I said with ALL things being equal? Equal means the same doesn't it? So why bring a 240SX and a 5.0 Mustang? Are they the same?

Spikuh · 05-29-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

Did you miss the point where I said with ALL things being equal? Equal means the same doesn't it? So why bring a 240SX and a 5.0 Mustang? Are they the same?

OMG you are choosing to be really dumb... This is just baffling... READ SON!!!! READ!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF YOUR MOTHER AND I, L2READ!!!!! Both what you wrote and what I wrote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

Bottom line, with all things being equal: power, torque, weight, engine layout, and weight, a car with IRS will put power to the ground more efficiently than a car with a solid rear axle.

You want all things equal, EXCEPT THE SUSPENSION. Look at your sentence structure son. You stop the series when you used and. In all honesty, there should probably be a semi-colon where you start saying "a car....herp derp". On top of that, SRA and IRS and NOT equal. Not in any sense of the word so why are you trying to make them equal? If they WERE equal, and everything else is equal then guess what.....

THEY WILL PERFORM THE SAME BECAUSE ITS ALL EQUAL!!!!!

IRS would NOT outperform SRA in the scenario you think you are saying because by being equal, they inherently are equally capable.

So anyway, back to what I was saying and the point I made which is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

How effectively a vehicle puts power down depends entirely on the setup and what that setup is designed to do.

You can't really boil this down much more. However, since you don't understand this sentence then read that quote over and over and over until something finally clicks....or, just look at the pictures and the handful of words I typed. They tell a story...kind of like a picture book. The same story that is boiled down into the quote above.

Please..... take a look, it's in a book,

(That last part is to sung like Oprah)

EDIT: Had fun, I'm out. Need food and to do a bit of work.

Caustic · 05-29-2013, 10:36 AM

Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really?

Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels.

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact.

The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is equally as good as an independently controlled...

Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.

Sh0velMan · 05-29-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

... some stuff ...

Just let it go. Each has its merits and each can be both good or bad depending on what you're doing and how you've set it up. Neither is a magic bullet.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

Just let it go. Each has its merits and each can be both good or bad depending on what you're doing and how you've set it up. Neither is a magic bullet.

So many people in this thread have missed the mark. It was only ever about ONE thing and it has been blown into an epic mess thanks to a few that can't quite get what the discussion is about.

Oh well, it's all good for a lark.

m4a1mustang · 05-29-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really?

Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels.

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact.

The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is better than independently controlled...

Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.

Who the hell are you even arguing with? No one ever said IRS wasn't a better system. The whole point of the discussion was to dispel the notion that just because the Mustang uses a solid axle doesn't mean it CAN'T handle, which many assume.

Meanwhile, you're over here thinking we're trying to say it's a great system that everyone should use.

C'mon, man!

Chuck33079 · 05-29-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint.

I was under the impression that a live axle was preferable for drag racing.

Tazicon · 05-29-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

I was under the impression that a live axle was preferable for drag racing.

And rock crawling

StangerGT · 05-29-2013, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact.

The bottom line, which everyone here seems to totally fail at understanding... is...

It. Doesn't. Matter.

Unless everyone here is a race car driver, most aren't capable skill wise to push either car to its controlable limit.

That is what most of the SRA people are saying... SRA's aren't a big deal... and if it is factoring into your forumla on what you plan on buying, you have either maximised the potiential of one in favor of using the other, or you have no idea what you are buying.

The only car that will be of of equal comparison to a 370z is if you stuff a live axle into a 370z...

05-29-2013, 07:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
/Angelo350Z/ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 2,230 Drives: Z34 \| MK7 \| F82 Rep Power: 3662	You guys are right. Cars with a solid axle will perform as well on a track as a car with IRS. Look, I can post pics of a vehicle exiting a corner as well. Unfortunately, it doesn't show how fast it's going, or how slow it is in relation to the cars around it. Bottom line, with all things being equal: power, torque, weight, engine layout, and weight, a car with IRS will put power to the ground more efficiently than a car with a solid rear axle. There's really no denying it. Tick64 likes this. __________________ 2013 MB NISSAN 370Z SPORT

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05-29-2013, 10:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
Caustic Base Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 243 Drives: '02 Acura NSX Rep Power: 14	Really guys? You all are going to continue to argue that a live axle is equally as good as an IRS? Really? Saying a better setup of a live axle is better than a crappy setup of an IRS is the dumbest comparison ever. Why? Cause it is pointless. That's like saying my running Yugo made of cardboard and spit is better than that brand new Toyota Camry missing all four of its wheels. The bottom line is that IRS is, and always will be better than a live axle setup from an engineering and mechanical standpoint. You can type in all caps, post pretty pictures, and line charts all you want, it won't ever change that fact. The idea that a rotating mass connected by a big thick piece of metal spanning the width of a vehicle to another rotating mass, with no flex or play between the two, moving at high speeds over an uneven and ever changing surface, is equally as good as an independently controlled... Know what? All you live axle supporters calling the rest fanbois is the ultimate fanboism. Why? Because physics and engineering says so.