Originally Posted by StangerGT (Post 2337857)

Also I will race my car against my same car with a Carbon Fiber hood/trunk/other bits. I will then come to the conclusion, that the only way to go is with the weight savings... otherwise its not a proper sports car...

I will then start a thread to which I will argue how its better, even tho most people cannot understand the amount of skill it would take to even see the fruits of it.

Originally Posted by StangerGT (Post 2337789)

oh and the corvette also runs leaf springs... anyone wanna say something about that? :stirthepot:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2337860)

Yeah but I can see that you're a fruit. :tup:

Originally Posted by jcosta79 (Post 2337863)

As a previous owner of a 2008 C6 I will say something about that. The suspension on that car was less than optimal. Above 120 I felt like I was driving a boat in rough seas.

I installed coilovers (which eliminated the leaf springs) and it transformed the entire behavior of the car. Worlds better than stock. Rock solid all the way to 190. Ask me how I know.

Oh, and I had the Z51 performance suspension.

Originally Posted by StangerGT (Post 2337868)

And yet GM slapped those leaf springs on the ZR1... which can roflstomp much of its competition. :icon17:

Originally Posted by Caustic (Post 2337817)

The problem I had is the consistent insistence that a live axle is just as good as an IRS to make a car perform well at a track. And then when that couldn't be argued, the insistence it doesn't matter. Of course it matters. That is why car manufactures spend time and money to develop these systems. That's why the cars in most track racing have it. But the live axle guys have dug their feet in because they can't deal with the fact that their cars are using inferior tech. The Mustang, one of the most recognizable marques around the world, has made forays into IRS (bad or otherwise) just for this very reason. And I'm the one that should let it go? Ford sure isn't, their next gen will offer IRS.

If you start putting other factors in there like good/bad setups, other applications, of course it muddies the whole argument, and avoids the original point.

Originally Posted by Caustic (Post 2335761)

The whole live axle vs IRS is a ridiculous debate. Billy Johnson is right from a technical standpoint. But he is also speaking from a professional standpoint, which most of are not.

The main difference between a live (stick, solid, or whatever you want to call it) vs IRS is grip and consistency. When a wheel connected to a live axle hits a bump, both wheels are affected in terrible ways. It completely throws off the handling to all but the best of drivers.

IRS is a benefit when a wheel hits a bump, the opposing wheel is still settled, the handling characteristics on the opposing wheel haven't changed. This creates consistency and predictability for handling in the majority of conditions.

The point being is that when you see Mustangs closing in on M3 lap times, everyone points it out as the Mustang being as fast and as good as the M3. But the reality is these those lap times are close because professional drivers have the ability to correct for the Mustangs weaknesses.

You put weekend warrior track day drivers in those two cars, the driver in the M3 will consistently outperform the Mustang driver by a large amount. The Mustang driver will have their hands full every time they clip an apex and roll over rumble strips.

Live axle technology is good for just one thing, price. If there were little difference between live and IRS, why does every high end race car have IRS?

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2335609)

Let's face it, the Mustang *shouldn't* be live axle. It should have ditched it a decade ago. But they didn't. And it didn't help that for the longest time they handled like crap, so everyone just assumed stick axles can't handle. By the time they actually put together a serious chassis and got the geometry right... that's a hard stigma to shake.

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2337822)

A properly designed IRS is better than a properly designed solid axle. The Mustang still handles very well with a solid rear. Is it ideal? No. Will it be perfectly fine for the 99.9% of us who don't make our living behind the wheel. Of course. The solid rear isn't the reason I didn't buy a 5.0. It's the interior.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2335609)

Let's face it, the Mustang *shouldn't* be live axle. It should have ditched it a decade ago. But they didn't. And it didn't help that for the longest time they handled like crap, so everyone just assumed stick axles can't handle. By the time they actually put together a serious chassis and got the geometry right... that's a hard stigma to shake.

Originally Posted by StangerGT (Post 2337868)

And yet GM slapped those leaf springs on the ZR1... which can roflstomp much of its competition. :icon17:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2337880)

This thread is long past serious.

So, grilling tonight at my house. Grab your beer or wine coolers and come on over. Yeah, I said wine coolers. I won't judge.

Originally Posted by jcosta79 (Post 2337882)

The reason the Vette still uses leaf springs is packaging. GM engineers themselves have admitted it. Would they prefer to use coil springs? Yes. But they can get 95% of the performance using a leaf spring and trick magnetorheological dampers and keep the low hood that is an iconic design feature.

Base C6 is a different animal. I can tell you from experience, it's not the same feeling driving a 370Z at 120+ mph. The first time I did it in the Vette I thought something was wrong with the car. Scared the crap out of me.

Originally Posted by StangerGT (Post 2337885)

I am not a fan of your grill technology... :stirthepot:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2337880)

This thread is long past serious.

So, grilling tonight at my house. Grab your beer or wine coolers and come on over. Yeah, I said wine coolers. I won't judge.

Originally Posted by jcosta79 (Post 2337882)

The reason the Vette still uses leaf springs is packaging. GM engineers themselves have admitted it. Would they prefer to use coil springs? Yes. But they can get 95% of the performance using a leaf spring and trick magnetorheological dampers and keep the low hood that is an iconic design feature.

Base C6 is a different animal. I can tell you from experience, it's not the same feeling driving a 370Z at 120+ mph. The first time I did it in the Vette I thought something was wrong with the car. Scared the crap out of me.

Originally Posted by jcosta79 (Post 2337891)

You're grilling wine coolers?