I think I'm Shifting Wrong

JARblue · 01-15-2013, 12:57 PM

Shifts that are jerky, are most likely to be driver error (a very small number will be from actual mechanical problems with the clutch or transmission). To eliminate jerkiness, all you have to do is ensure that your RPMs are appropriate for your speed and gear shift. It not exactly a simple procedure, but if you're not getting smooth shifts, the simple fact is that you are not rev-matching properly. Downshifting is a bit more tricky, but upshifting shouldn't be too difficult. When upshifting, you just need to be sure to release the clutch when RPMs are appropriate - it's going to take time, especially for a new MT driver, and will eventually just become feel. It's not rocket science, but it can be frustrating if you don't practice (and your DD route is generally not going to be the best practice method - find an empty stadium parking lot is my recommendation).

If you let out the clutch too quickly, the RPMs will be too high - solution is to wait a hair longer before letting out the clutch.

If you let out the clutch too slowly, the RPMs will have dropped too low - solution is to blip the accelerator to bring the RPMs back to the proper number.

If you have SRM, work on letting out the clutch steadily instead of dumping it - I find this virtually eliminates any jerking when downshifting. This isn't going to have any effect if you are downshifting from 5th to 2nd at 40 mph though... I'm talking about reasonable shifts for DDing.

Haboob · 01-15-2013, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Shifts that are jerky, are most likely to be driver error (a very small number will be from actual mechanical problems with the clutch or transmission). To eliminate jerkiness, all you have to do is ensure that your RPMs are appropriate for your speed and gear shift. It not exactly a simple procedure, but if you're not getting smooth shifts, the simple fact is that you are not rev-matching properly. Downshifting is a bit more tricky, but upshifting shouldn't be too difficult. When upshifting, you just need to be sure to release the clutch when RPMs are appropriate - it's going to take time, especially for a new MT driver, and will eventually just become feel. It's not rocket science, but it can be frustrating if you don't practice (and your DD route is generally not going to be the best practice method - find an empty stadium parking lot is my recommendation).

If you let out the clutch too quickly, the RPMs will be too high - solution is to wait a hair longer before letting out the clutch.

If you let out the clutch too slowly, the RPMs will have dropped too low - solution is to blip the accelerator to bring the RPMs back to the proper number.

If you have SRM, work on letting out the clutch steadily instead of dumping it - I find this virtually eliminates any jerking when downshifting. This isn't going to have any effect if you are downshifting from 5th to 2nd at 40 mph though... I'm talking about reasonable shifts for DDing.

Well for me, I'm not new to MT's, but I never had this problem in my previous car.

I still could be letting it out too quickly, as I said I'm still getting use to the high catch point, but if I go too slow I feel as if I'm just riding the clutch.

JARblue · 01-15-2013, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haboob

Well for me, I'm not new to MT's, but I never had this problem in my previous car.

I still could be letting it out too quickly, as I said I'm still getting use to the high catch point, but if I go too slow I feel as if I'm just riding the clutch.

It'll still take a bit of getting used to, even if you are familiar with MT (IIRC you're fairly new to the Z - <2 months?). I felt the same way with regard to riding the clutch, but when I let SRM do the rev matching and focus on the clutch play, there is a noticeable difference between letting the clutch out evenly (not necessarily slowly) rather than dumping it completely. Also, the shifting when driving casually vs spiritedly is very different. Casual driving seemed sooooo slow when I first got the car, but now I am used to it and have few problems.

scope22 · 01-15-2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

Shifts that are jerky, are most likely to be driver error (a very small number will be from actual mechanical problems with the clutch or transmission). To eliminate jerkiness, all you have to do is ensure that your RPMs are appropriate for your speed and gear shift. It not exactly a simple procedure, but if you're not getting smooth shifts, the simple fact is that you are not rev-matching properly. Downshifting is a bit more tricky, but upshifting shouldn't be too difficult. When upshifting, you just need to be sure to release the clutch when RPMs are appropriate - it's going to take time, especially for a new MT driver, and will eventually just become feel. It's not rocket science, but it can be frustrating if you don't practice (and your DD route is generally not going to be the best practice method - find an empty stadium parking lot is my recommendation).

If you let out the clutch too quickly, the RPMs will be too high - solution is to wait a hair longer before letting out the clutch.

If you let out the clutch too slowly, the RPMs will have dropped too low - solution is to blip the accelerator to bring the RPMs back to the proper number.

If you have SRM, work on letting out the clutch steadily instead of dumping it - I find this virtually eliminates any jerking when downshifting. This isn't going to have any effect if you are downshifting from 5th to 2nd at 40 mph though... I'm talking about reasonable shifts for DDing.

Yea exactly...this car likes higher RPMs better that is all. There are 2 solutions, let out the clutch slower OR push in the clutch wait a sec then shift, its same difference.

JungleZ · 01-15-2013, 01:40 PM

Can a good manual driver be quicker than the 7at, why did the 7at feel like it had more practical low end torque

R0bDC · 01-15-2013, 01:41 PM

Thanks for all the information!! I will definitely be paying more attention about how I shift, when I shift, etc. I will also be changing the gear oil, ima have to figure how to do that first lol.

My last question is this, I remember this one time it was summer and the car was right under the sun. when I got in the car i notice the stick was hot and super loose (that's what she said!) that day the car was shifting super smooth and I remember thinking i wish the car was always like this!

What do u guys make of that?

alcheng · 01-15-2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleZ

Can a good manual driver be quicker than the 7at, why did the 7at feel like it had more practical low end torque

For the first question, you have to clarify at what scenario you are comparing two... Straight line? Shift time? Lap Time?

But to give you a general answer, the 7AT in the Z is very well built, they do shift faster than MT. However, if you talking about laping a course, it really depends on the driver.

The AT has a shorter gear ratio thus more low end torque.

Haboob · 01-15-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JARblue

It'll still take a bit of getting used to, even if you are familiar with MT (IIRC you're fairly new to the Z - <2 months?). I felt the same way with regard to riding the clutch, but when I let SRM do the rev matching and focus on the clutch play, there is a noticeable difference between letting the clutch out evenly (not necessarily slowly) rather than dumping it completely. Also, the shifting when driving casually vs spiritedly is very different. Casual driving seemed sooooo slow when I first got the car, but now I am used to it and have few problems.

Yeah, I've only had it about a month. And I notice too that slow driving seems REALLY slow at times, but I'm getting used to it too.

I'll have to work on it some.

alcheng · 01-15-2013, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R0bDC

Thanks for all the information!! I will definitely be paying more attention about how I shift, when I shift, etc. I will also be changing the gear oil, ima have to figure how to do that first lol.

My last question is this, I remember this one time it was summer and the car was right under the sun. when I got in the car i notice the stick was hot and super loose (that's what she said!) that day the car was shifting super smooth and I remember thinking i wish the car was always like this!

What do u guys make of that?

the transmission oil does not "thicken" as much like under the cold temperature, that's why.

R0bDC · 01-15-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcheng

the transmission oil does not "thicken" as much like under the cold temperature, that's why.

So changing the transmission oil might give me a smoother shift?

alcheng · 01-15-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R0bDC

So changing the transmission oil might give me a smoother shift?

Yes.. you might want to check the Tech section for more info on that.

irondoc · 01-15-2013, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemon-fresh

Fair, I'd like to stick with manuals for as long as possible since I'm pretty sure we will be seeing a lot less of them in the near future.

Pretty sure we are seeing less of MT's now - can only get worse. But I loathe auto's.
re: traction control: With my '13 with the Stillen SC (395 whp) I noticed the traction control kicking in constantly under hard acceleration. With the control disengaged I have found that I modulate the power better with my foot, the car is MUCH faster, with only very controllable wheel spin. Seems the nanny is over protective, and the traction control seems to restrict engine power - you can actually feel the hesitation every time the light comes on.
For those of you who track your cars - Are 0-60 times generally helped or hindered by traction control?
No doubt inexperienced drivers will be safer in all conditions with the switch "on" and all of us are safer with the switch "on" in inclement conditions.

semtex · 01-15-2013, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R0bDC

So changing the transmission oil might give me a smoother shift?

Yes, and switch to a synthetic like Redline MT-85. It's specifically recommended for the 370Z.

Red Line Synthetic Oil - Gear Oil for Manual Transmissions - MT-85 75W85 GL-4 Gear Oil

kenchan · 01-15-2013, 04:17 PM

yah, before that, just learn how to shift the car. the tranny and oil in there is fine.

fzgood · 01-15-2013, 11:45 PM

I'm driving my first MT car too. About 2.5 months into ownership and I can feel my shifts getting smoother, more natural, and just better, but I know there's a long way to go.

I've let a couple other people drive my car and the car is smooth as silk.

If I hadn't done this, I probably would have doubts, just like OP, as to how smooth the car can be.

If you have someone you can trust, go for a ride with them. It's definitely worth finding out if the problem is the driver, not the car. While you're at it, pick up some tips.

01-15-2013, 12:57 PM	#106 (permalink)
JARblue A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Austin, TX Age: 43 Posts: 36,449 Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3 Rep Power: 2684440	Shifts that are jerky, are most likely to be driver error (a very small number will be from actual mechanical problems with the clutch or transmission). To eliminate jerkiness, all you have to do is ensure that your RPMs are appropriate for your speed and gear shift. It not exactly a simple procedure, but if you're not getting smooth shifts, the simple fact is that you are not rev-matching properly. Downshifting is a bit more tricky, but upshifting shouldn't be too difficult. When upshifting, you just need to be sure to release the clutch when RPMs are appropriate - it's going to take time, especially for a new MT driver, and will eventually just become feel. It's not rocket science, but it can be frustrating if you don't practice (and your DD route is generally not going to be the best practice method - find an empty stadium parking lot is my recommendation). If you let out the clutch too quickly, the RPMs will be too high - solution is to wait a hair longer before letting out the clutch. If you let out the clutch too slowly, the RPMs will have dropped too low - solution is to blip the accelerator to bring the RPMs back to the proper number. If you have SRM, work on letting out the clutch steadily instead of dumping it - I find this virtually eliminates any jerking when downshifting. This isn't going to have any effect if you are downshifting from 5th to 2nd at 40 mph though... I'm talking about reasonable shifts for DDing. __________________ 2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic \| ARC \| CJM \| Ecutek \| FI \| Fujimura \| R2C \| SPL \| Stillen \| TWM \| Z1 \| ZSpeed \|

01-15-2013, 04:17 PM	#119 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141520	yah, before that, just learn how to shift the car. the tranny and oil in there is fine. JARblue likes this.

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01-15-2013, 01:40 PM	#110 (permalink)
JungleZ Banned Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: orange county,ca Posts: 652 Drives: leased base z... Rep Power: 0	Can a good manual driver be quicker than the 7at, why did the 7at feel like it had more practical low end torque

01-15-2013, 01:41 PM	#111 (permalink)
R0bDC Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: California Posts: 307 Drives: 2009 370Z Rep Power: 12	Thanks for all the information!! I will definitely be paying more attention about how I shift, when I shift, etc. I will also be changing the gear oil, ima have to figure how to do that first lol. My last question is this, I remember this one time it was summer and the car was right under the sun. when I got in the car i notice the stick was hot and super loose (that's what she said!) that day the car was shifting super smooth and I remember thinking i wish the car was always like this! What do u guys make of that?

01-15-2013, 11:45 PM	#120 (permalink)
fzgood Base Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 136 Drives: '13 370z 6MT TS PW Rep Power: 25	I'm driving my first MT car too. About 2.5 months into ownership and I can feel my shifts getting smoother, more natural, and just better, but I know there's a long way to go. I've let a couple other people drive my car and the car is smooth as silk. If I hadn't done this, I probably would have doubts, just like OP, as to how smooth the car can be. If you have someone you can trust, go for a ride with them. It's definitely worth finding out if the problem is the driver, not the car. While you're at it, pick up some tips.