The next gen Z!

b1adesofcha0s · 12-20-2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

You do realize that Nissan has the Leaf (and working on other electric & electric hybrids) which helps counter balance the Z & GT-R MPG ratings, as the whole CAFE rating system is a collective number and not per individual car, yet.

Cars with such limited production numbers like the GT-R and Z don't affect the overall manufacturer average much. For everyone of these cars there's like 20 Altimas to balance out the MPG's.

SS_Firehawk · 12-20-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmkraft12

The market they are shooting for is much cheaper. There is a reason that there are so many more mustangs and Cameros on the road than Z's. The next gen z will probably run for 20-28k.

If they were shooting for cheaper, they would have made the 370Z cheaper and less powerful when it was introduced. The Z handidly trumps every other V6 car in the market with the exception of it's bigger brother. It's in a fickle position where there is no direct performance competitor besides the Genesis 3.8. The price they are selling the Z is similar to domestic V8 performance cars with no import taxes and that's why it's compared. It just so happens that the Z is not quite as fleet of foot as them. Working with a V6 and lower weight, and without FI, they will only be able to make par against the domestics.

They do want to make it easier to get into a Z, but I see it as another model. This debate can go on till Nissan play's it's cards. Hopefully Nissan doesn't go retarded and give the Z a different letter too.

ZMan8 · 12-20-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmkraft12

There is no chance that the new Z will be a 6 cylinder. It isn't the market that is selling the most at the time. The new engine will most likely be a straight four turbo running anywhere from 220-300 horsepower. The new car is going to be aimed at the BRZ/FRS, and Genesis Coupe market. Nissan also has a "quota" for Mpg that they need to make and a turbo four is the way to go at the time.

You do realize the gensis coupe has an engine option of 3.8 liter v6 that costs as much as our z.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmkraft12

The market they are shooting for is much cheaper. There is a reason that there are so many more mustangs and Cameros on the road than Z's. The next gen z will probably run for 20-28k.

Why would nissan want the z (a true sports car) to start competing with cheaper/ slower sports coupes...? Frs/brz , genesis, mustang, camaro are all sports coupes. The reason there are so many is because people buy the cheaper option ones that arent even "sporty" whats the ratio of v-6 mustangs to the gt mustangs?

Sports coupes will always outsell 2 seaters because they are more daily friendly and practical. The z will compete with sports cars like base corvette , bmw z4, audi tt, porsche boxster/cayman. Besides the vette those cars are relatively low volume csrs like the z. They market the car as you get equal or greater performance for 50-75% of the the cost.

Therefore nissan is smart enough to keep the z where it is and improve its performance with trubo and/or direct injection & weight reduction; while developing either a mini z or sylvia to compete with frs/brz, v-6 mustangs/camaros, and 2.0t genesis.

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b1adesofcha0s · 12-20-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8

You do realize the gensis coupe has an engine option of 3.8 liter v6 that costs as much as our z.

Why would nissan want the z (a true sports car) to start competing with cheaper/ slower sports coupes...? Frs/brz , genesis, mustang, camaro are all sports coupes. The reason there are so many is because people buy the cheaper option ones that arent even "sporty" whats the ratio of v-6 mustangs to the gt mustangs?

Sports coupes will always outsell 2 seaters because they are more daily friendly and practical. The z will compete with sports cars like base corvette , bmw z4, audi tt, porsche boxster/cayman. Besides the vette those cars are relatively low volume csrs like the z. They market the car as you get equal or greater performance for 50-75% of the the cost.

Therefore nissan is smart enough to keep the z where it is and improve its performance with trubo and/or direct injection & weight reduction; while developing either a mini z or sylvia to compete with frs/brz, v-6 mustangs/camaros, and 2.0t genesis.

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To boost sales numbers

ZMan8 · 12-20-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

To boost sales numbers

Well what i was meant is why would it go to competing with cars that are worse. .makes no sense

Also Imo They dont need to necessarily boost sales on the z. It's a niche car bought mostly by enthusiasts and young professionals. Nissan already has huge volume cars like altima maxima sentra versa rogue murano etc.

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RoshDawg · 12-20-2012, 05:57 PM

I wonder if there will be a Nismo rs model on top of the Nismo model. I remember hearing something about doing more with the Nismo brand.

b1adesofcha0s · 12-20-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMan8

Well what i was meant is why would it go to competing with cars that are worse. .makes no sense

Also Imo They dont need to necessarily boost sales on the z. It's a niche car bought mostly by enthusiasts and young professionals. Nissan already has huge volume cars like altima maxima sentra versa rogue murano etc.

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I don't agree with it either, but making/selling cars is a business so it's all about making money. The Z is no longer Nissan's global halo car, they have the GT-R for that. More sales = more money. The Z is all about being an affordable sports car and dropping it down to compete with the BRZ would fit that model. I think they'd probably keep the car's overall performance the same as it is now, but with a turbo 4. I can see the Z being a more upscale version of the BRZ.

SS_Firehawk · 12-20-2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmkraft12

The market has changed since the 370z was first announced. It isn't that Nissan wants to bring its car to the level of the others, it is that people are looking for gas efficient cars that are still fun to drive. That's the market that is prospering at the time.

I disagree. I think the FRS/BRZ is filling a niche market just as the Z is. They came at a time when it was at least a decade before something similar was on the market. They will sell well until the market has had it's fill. Things will slow down. It's the same thing that happened with the 350Z. If Nissan does market a 4 cylinder turbo with the Z, it will more than likely target a position closer to the Genesis Coupe 2.0T. Yet I still see a V6 model in the lineup. They already have the motor, they will need an updated V6 for their Infiniti lineup. The more vehicles the engine is in, the easier to subsidize the engineering costs. Idk

I'm happy I bought mine when I did. 3200lbs is still light, and the VQ37VHR responds better to modifications than any N/A V6 I've ever seen. The Ford & Chevy guys are happy to make 380-425whp with turbo's and SC's. Here we are pushing 550 without engine work.

b1adesofcha0s · 12-20-2012, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I disagree. I think the FRS/BRZ is filling a niche market just as the Z is. They came at a time when it was at least a decade before something similar was on the market. They will sell well until the market has had it's fill. Things will slow down. It's the same thing that happened with the 350Z. If Nissan does market a 4 cylinder turbo with the Z, it will more than likely target a position closer to the Genesis Coupe 2.0T. Yet I still see a V6 model in the lineup. They already have the motor, they will need an updated V6 for their Infiniti lineup. The more vehicles the engine is in, the easier to subsidize the engineering costs. Idk

I'm happy I bought mine when I did. 3200lbs is still light, and the VQ37VHR responds better to modifications than any N/A V6 I've ever seen. The Ford & Chevy guys are happy to make 380-425whp with turbo's and SC's. Here we are pushing 550 without engine work.

Well their V8 versions offer more HP/$ than the Z. The 5.0 is definitely a better performance bargain and has more mod potential.

Red__Zed · 12-21-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I'm happy I bought mine when I did. 3200lbs is still light, and the VQ37VHR responds better to modifications than any N/A V6 I've ever seen. The Ford & Chevy guys are happy to make 380-425whp with turbo's and SC's. Here we are pushing 550 without engine work.

3200 pounds is pretty light. Would be great if Nissan could get the Z down there...would probably make it a lot more competitive, especially if they got some of the weight off the nose.

Red__Zed · 12-21-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Well their V8 versions offer more HP/$ than the Z. The 5.0 is definitely a better performance bargain and has more mod potential.

the V6 mustangs are pretty comfortably into the 10s already with superchargers+drag radials

b1adesofcha0s · 12-21-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

the V6 mustangs are pretty comfortably into the 10s already with superchargers+drag radials

5.0 or

luigi90210 · 12-21-2012, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

a turbo 4 will not be adequate. Nissan doesn't have a turbo 4 in their stable large enough to pull duty. Realistically, I see a direct injected V6 continuing to use VVEL, possibly growing to 3.8L. I wouldn't be surprised if we see 100hp per liter. I do see a move from a steel frame to an aluminum which will drop at least 100lbs, most likely more. Moving to aluminum across their entire lineup sharing the same front midship platform will assist in keeping costs down. It will also increase their fuel economy as standards rise.

clearly you havent seen a properly modified evo, eclipse gsx, silvia(or 240sx with sr20det swap)

heck a $20 bleed valve on an evo will put it up with a stock Z easily

Supergoji · 12-26-2012, 03:47 AM

Small displacement high revving 6 cyl with cyl deac and DCT trans will get the job done.
Nissan take a page or a few volumes out of porsche's collection..

SS_Firehawk · 12-26-2012, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luigi90210

clearly you havent seen a properly modified evo, eclipse gsx, silvia(or 240sx with sr20det swap)

heck a $20 bleed valve on an evo will put it up with a stock Z easily

I obviously have or I wouldn't have made my argument. Your comparing a modified car to a proposed factory car. So tell me again at what rpm the turbo begins to spin? The rest of the world does not want to wait for power, when the gas is pressed, they want the desired results now, not in a few seconds.

12-20-2012, 05:57 PM	#201 (permalink)
RoshDawg Track Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: NM / CA Posts: 981 Drives: '13 911 C2S Rep Power: 15	I wonder if there will be a Nismo rs model on top of the Nismo model. I remember hearing something about doing more with the Nismo brand. __________________ \| EVO X MR \| '11 WRX STI \| 370Z SPRT \| 911 (991) C2S \|

12-26-2012, 03:47 AM	#209 (permalink)
Supergoji Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Westchester NY Age: 35 Posts: 311 Drives: Z32tt / Supra tt Rep Power: 256	Small displacement high revving 6 cyl with cyl deac and DCT trans will get the job done. Nissan take a page or a few volumes out of porsche's collection.. UNKNOWN_370 and RoshDawg like this.