Spawn Aerodynamics - Bullittes CF build thread.

37Z · 07-01-2009, 07:02 PM

"One mold provides the exterior contours and the latter the interior contours and structural rigidity. Once both molds are complete the two parts need to be bonded with carbon specific structural adhesive for wet layup, if dry carbon was used you could reintroduce heat and the two pieces would bond together in an autoclave."

Even better, vacuum bagged, pre-preg carbon fiber in a two-piece mold in an autoclave with humidity,temp, and pressure control.

rufio11 · 07-01-2009, 07:30 PM

If you could make a front bumper without the fangs and still have it look stock, Kinda like the Nismo version without the lip, I think that would be welcome with open arms and open wallets.

SpawnAeroJohn · 07-01-2009, 08:40 PM

What is your solution for storing the molds in your garage to retain proper symmetry and strength without distorting the original mold shape?
Since most of our early molds were small they would be stored on shelves or in storage lockers. Our latest molds have gotten bigger and bigger. Any mold that is practically a simple big shape (hood face, roof panel, etc) has a back brace that we mold into the final layers of the mold which keeps the mold from warping while curing. Once the mold is cured its cured for good and if its kept flat it wont change shapes. We also do not remove any molds until we are sure its fully cured. We don’t quick dry our molds with heat or UV lighting, we just let them sit for at least 48 hrs in room temp. We also use the highest quality resin we can find which has a super low warp or shrinkage rate. Even more so if the mold does not over heat so we do not put on multiple layers at once to prevent that.

Similarly, if you don't have the original parts you are creating... assuming you are making a fiberglass mold, what is your plan if one of the molds break or crack in the future?
We would either buy the part or preferably have a local come down to remold the product. We always would rather create molds of live parts since they are already fitted to the car and have kept shape for some time.

How do you control the humidity and temperature level in your workspace to achieve proper curing as per recommended specs consistent with the resin you use and to prevent the carbon fiber fabric to absorb ambient moisture?
Since most shops do not control humidity only temperature its never a real issue. But we can not control either or so the way we counterattack the "might be problem" is by mixing chemicals to alter the structure of the material yet alter it in a way so it does not change the properties of strength and or shape. We do this by either adding in acetone or other high evaporative substances such as that or other products which if the temperature is over 80 degrees. Those added materials evaporate before anything else gets a chance to. And by that time the parts are already curing. We also change the amount of activator / hardener we put in. If its hotter we put less hardener so it wont affect the shape. If its colder we put more so that the materials don’t separate.

What accommodations have you planned to incorporate the hood mounting hardware, for the hinges and hood latches?
We are still trying to work that out but the best idea so far is to have an outside company create steel plates that will go behind the hardware so that nothing cracks or separates.

I could ask so many more questions.... but I will just continue to watch. My questions are in no form derogatory or demeaning. I am trying to present constructive criticism to address areas where this extreme hobby experiment can go wrong. I hope to buy a few enhancements if all turns out well... I just think a simple dash kit would have been a good place to start and then add one additional product at a time.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me as I live very close to you and have created a few carbon pieces for hobby value.

There is a reason why F-1 teams have multi-million dollar budgets, because they work with and use carbon fiber...

And to throw it out and make this my longest post yet, OCC owned a steel manufacturing enterprise before dabbling with motorcycles. And coincidentally those motorcycles were made of 80% steel parts. Never did Paul Sr. design and build a motorcycle in his basement or garage...

And yes I do know that. I also know that its the TV show that got them to where they are today. But I try to personally look past those facts just to boost our confidence. We have never had doubt in ourselves but this just helps.

Thank you for your time - that is all for now,

Nick

And we only know you are trying to help. In no way I thought of this as an ill post. Yes right now we don’t have the best environment but it is a place where we can do our work with great concentration, all the surrounding businesses and neighbors are real happy with our presence as well as the local law enforcement as we are doing some jobs for local police officers, and right now it’s the best place for our position. Like I did say in a few weeks to late summer we will be renting out a 5000 sq ft warehouse in Chicago that a friend of mine / fiberglass supplier is offering us at a very great price. So right now its not the are around us or the are that we are in, it’s the techniques we use to counter all of the “what could be problems” which so far has worked well and we have yet to come across a problem.

Also all our carbon fiber is vacuumed to remove excess materials, thin and lighten them down, and remove any air bubbles / moisture that can ruin the part. That is the one technique that really does effect the overall outcome of every product fiberglass and carbon fiber.

I might be contacting you in the future

SpawnAeroJohn · 07-01-2009, 09:01 PM

Here are more pictures!

This is yesterday and today combined.

Here is Manny spreading on the gel coat (most of the pictures have him in it, and no he does not do all of the work ha)

The gel coat on the front bumper license plate back.

Starting fiberglass layup

The first 7 coats of fiberglass

Preping the rear bumper for the mold.

And today we pulled the mold for the front bumper (Ill get pics tomorrow) But here is a picture showing we take extra precautions to make sure the panels are not harmed during glassing them. As you can see the bumper is in the same condition as it was prior to laying fiberglass over it.

Tomorrow we will make the first carbon fiber roof, front bumper license back, and a FRP replica of the hood which we will modify for the scoops.

We will also start the fenders, hatch, and the reverse side of the hood for the molds.

10 days to go and allot of work to do

nogoodname · 07-01-2009, 09:05 PM

doing a good job !!

Caravanshaka · 07-01-2009, 09:50 PM

Honestly, I think the coolest part about this build is that you are walking us through the steps you are taking to build these parts. We don't just see a picture of the final product and order, we literally get to watch you build them so we can see as close to first-hand as we possibly can without helping you, the quality and craftsmanship that goes into the product.

I will definitely be interested in some of these parts in the end, especially since my car has a black and white theme

semtex · 07-02-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caravanshaka

Honestly, I think the coolest part about this build is that you are walking us through the steps you are taking to build these parts. We don't just see a picture of the final product and order, we literally get to watch you build them so we can see as close to first-hand as we possibly can without helping you, the quality and craftsmanship that goes into the product.

I will definitely be interested in some of these parts in the end, especially since my car has a black and white theme

I agree. What a refreshing change from the attitude that some companies have. Take SSR, for example. They won't even release offset info because they 'don't want to share their trade secrets with their competitors'. They're a bunch of tossers is what they are. Props to you guys at Spawn Aerodynamics.

nogoodname · 07-02-2009, 08:25 AM

^ that's the difference between a private shop and a commercial business shop.

+1 to u spawn

SpawnAeroJohn · 07-02-2009, 08:25 AM

Awwwwww shucks!!!

LiquidZ · 07-02-2009, 09:04 AM

Keep up the great work Spawn!

Caravanshaka · 07-02-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogoodname007

^ that's the difference between a private shop and a commercial business shop.

+1 to u spawn

Agreed, it's been the same with berk and their cat-back as well. getting to see the process along with testing has helped spark more interest, as well as more confidence in the consumer. It's a win-win situation for anyone building a quality product. If your product is a piece of crap though, you don't want to be doing this

nogoodname · 07-02-2009, 09:17 AM

Takes guts to show the process... Nothing to hide.

This reminds of fast food joints. Who knows what happens in the kitchen.

bullitt5897 · 07-02-2009, 09:27 AM

Great points guys! Yea John and I had several conversations on this subject and we both agreed to involve the community as much as possible. Allowing you guys to see the process was a really great idea "thanks John!". John and his shop do GREAT work and I am excited to get my car back with all these parts on it! For sure this will be the First carbon Fiber 370z in the WORLD!!!! John we are making history brother lets keep it up! Spawn Aerodynamics will definitely be a major contender to deal with! Best Prices with exceptional quality!!! JDM manufacturers watch your back because Spawn Aero is hunting you down like Red October!

ssqpolo · 07-02-2009, 09:39 AM

MOAR PICS!! and i cant wait to start buying some CF crap for my car lol. im obsessed with it. ****. i will send u my car for a long period of time to make more carbon fiber whatever (widebody...different designs, etc). hook it up! bullit got first dibs...my turn! lol. great job tho guys. this is a super cool project

RCZ · 07-02-2009, 11:50 AM

excellent pics, thanks for sharing with the forum!

07-01-2009, 07:02 PM	#61 (permalink)
37Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 476 Drives: 370Z MB 6M -sold Rep Power: 262	Dry Carbon Molding "One mold provides the exterior contours and the latter the interior contours and structural rigidity. Once both molds are complete the two parts need to be bonded with carbon specific structural adhesive for wet layup, if dry carbon was used you could reintroduce heat and the two pieces would bond together in an autoclave." Even better, vacuum bagged, pre-preg carbon fiber in a two-piece mold in an autoclave with humidity,temp, and pressure control.

07-02-2009, 09:04 AM	#70 (permalink)
LiquidZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,940 Drives: Mag. Black 2009 370Z Rep Power: 704	Keep up the great work Spawn! __________________

07-02-2009, 09:27 AM	#73 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3682	Great points guys! Yea John and I had several conversations on this subject and we both agreed to involve the community as much as possible. Allowing you guys to see the process was a really great idea "thanks John!". John and his shop do GREAT work and I am excited to get my car back with all these parts on it! For sure this will be the First carbon Fiber 370z in the WORLD!!!! John we are making history brother lets keep it up! Spawn Aerodynamics will definitely be a major contender to deal with! Best Prices with exceptional quality!!! JDM manufacturers watch your back because Spawn Aero is hunting you down like Red October! __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

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07-01-2009, 07:30 PM	#62 (permalink)
rufio11 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Rancho Cucamonga CA Posts: 24 Drives: future Z driver Rep Power: 16	If you could make a front bumper without the fangs and still have it look stock, Kinda like the Nismo version without the lip, I think that would be welcome with open arms and open wallets.

07-01-2009, 08:40 PM	#63 (permalink)
SpawnAeroJohn NOT A CURRENT VENDOR Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 609 Drives: you Rep Power: 16	What is your solution for storing the molds in your garage to retain proper symmetry and strength without distorting the original mold shape? Since most of our early molds were small they would be stored on shelves or in storage lockers. Our latest molds have gotten bigger and bigger. Any mold that is practically a simple big shape (hood face, roof panel, etc) has a back brace that we mold into the final layers of the mold which keeps the mold from warping while curing. Once the mold is cured its cured for good and if its kept flat it wont change shapes. We also do not remove any molds until we are sure its fully cured. We don’t quick dry our molds with heat or UV lighting, we just let them sit for at least 48 hrs in room temp. We also use the highest quality resin we can find which has a super low warp or shrinkage rate. Even more so if the mold does not over heat so we do not put on multiple layers at once to prevent that. Similarly, if you don't have the original parts you are creating... assuming you are making a fiberglass mold, what is your plan if one of the molds break or crack in the future? We would either buy the part or preferably have a local come down to remold the product. We always would rather create molds of live parts since they are already fitted to the car and have kept shape for some time. How do you control the humidity and temperature level in your workspace to achieve proper curing as per recommended specs consistent with the resin you use and to prevent the carbon fiber fabric to absorb ambient moisture? Since most shops do not control humidity only temperature its never a real issue. But we can not control either or so the way we counterattack the "might be problem" is by mixing chemicals to alter the structure of the material yet alter it in a way so it does not change the properties of strength and or shape. We do this by either adding in acetone or other high evaporative substances such as that or other products which if the temperature is over 80 degrees. Those added materials evaporate before anything else gets a chance to. And by that time the parts are already curing. We also change the amount of activator / hardener we put in. If its hotter we put less hardener so it wont affect the shape. If its colder we put more so that the materials don’t separate. What accommodations have you planned to incorporate the hood mounting hardware, for the hinges and hood latches? We are still trying to work that out but the best idea so far is to have an outside company create steel plates that will go behind the hardware so that nothing cracks or separates. I could ask so many more questions.... but I will just continue to watch. My questions are in no form derogatory or demeaning. I am trying to present constructive criticism to address areas where this extreme hobby experiment can go wrong. I hope to buy a few enhancements if all turns out well... I just think a simple dash kit would have been a good place to start and then add one additional product at a time. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me as I live very close to you and have created a few carbon pieces for hobby value. There is a reason why F-1 teams have multi-million dollar budgets, because they work with and use carbon fiber... And to throw it out and make this my longest post yet, OCC owned a steel manufacturing enterprise before dabbling with motorcycles. And coincidentally those motorcycles were made of 80% steel parts. Never did Paul Sr. design and build a motorcycle in his basement or garage... And yes I do know that. I also know that its the TV show that got them to where they are today. But I try to personally look past those facts just to boost our confidence. We have never had doubt in ourselves but this just helps. Thank you for your time - that is all for now, Nick And we only know you are trying to help. In no way I thought of this as an ill post. Yes right now we don’t have the best environment but it is a place where we can do our work with great concentration, all the surrounding businesses and neighbors are real happy with our presence as well as the local law enforcement as we are doing some jobs for local police officers, and right now it’s the best place for our position. Like I did say in a few weeks to late summer we will be renting out a 5000 sq ft warehouse in Chicago that a friend of mine / fiberglass supplier is offering us at a very great price. So right now its not the are around us or the are that we are in, it’s the techniques we use to counter all of the “what could be problems” which so far has worked well and we have yet to come across a problem. Also all our carbon fiber is vacuumed to remove excess materials, thin and lighten them down, and remove any air bubbles / moisture that can ruin the part. That is the one technique that really does effect the overall outcome of every product fiberglass and carbon fiber. I might be contacting you in the future

07-01-2009, 09:01 PM	#64 (permalink)
SpawnAeroJohn NOT A CURRENT VENDOR Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 609 Drives: you Rep Power: 16	Here are more pictures! This is yesterday and today combined. Here is Manny spreading on the gel coat (most of the pictures have him in it, and no he does not do all of the work ha) The gel coat on the front bumper license plate back. Starting fiberglass layup The first 7 coats of fiberglass Preping the rear bumper for the mold. And today we pulled the mold for the front bumper (Ill get pics tomorrow) But here is a picture showing we take extra precautions to make sure the panels are not harmed during glassing them. As you can see the bumper is in the same condition as it was prior to laying fiberglass over it. Tomorrow we will make the first carbon fiber roof, front bumper license back, and a FRP replica of the hood which we will modify for the scoops. We will also start the fenders, hatch, and the reverse side of the hood for the molds. 10 days to go and allot of work to do

07-01-2009, 09:05 PM	#65 (permalink)
nogoodname Lifetime Premium Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Montreal Posts: 22,357 Drives: E46 M3 Rep Power: 1764	doing a good job !!

07-01-2009, 09:50 PM	#66 (permalink)
Caravanshaka I shake Caravans Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: north Dallas Posts: 9,517 Drives: everyone crazy Rep Power: 42	Honestly, I think the coolest part about this build is that you are walking us through the steps you are taking to build these parts. We don't just see a picture of the final product and order, we literally get to watch you build them so we can see as close to first-hand as we possibly can without helping you, the quality and craftsmanship that goes into the product. I will definitely be interested in some of these parts in the end, especially since my car has a black and white theme

07-02-2009, 08:25 AM	#68 (permalink)
nogoodname Lifetime Premium Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Montreal Posts: 22,357 Drives: E46 M3 Rep Power: 1764	^ that's the difference between a private shop and a commercial business shop. +1 to u spawn

07-02-2009, 08:25 AM	#69 (permalink)
SpawnAeroJohn NOT A CURRENT VENDOR Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 609 Drives: you Rep Power: 16	Awwwwww shucks!!!

07-02-2009, 09:17 AM	#72 (permalink)
nogoodname Lifetime Premium Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Montreal Posts: 22,357 Drives: E46 M3 Rep Power: 1764	Takes guts to show the process... Nothing to hide. This reminds of fast food joints. Who knows what happens in the kitchen.

07-02-2009, 09:39 AM	#74 (permalink)
ssqpolo Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 882 Drives: '12 Black Nismo Rep Power: 267	MOAR PICS!! and i cant wait to start buying some CF crap for my car lol. im obsessed with it. ****. i will send u my car for a long period of time to make more carbon fiber whatever (widebody...different designs, etc). hook it up! bullit got first dibs...my turn! lol. great job tho guys. this is a super cool project

07-02-2009, 11:50 AM	#75 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1118	excellent pics, thanks for sharing with the forum!