5.0

shadoquad · 03-14-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

No, it can happen. I've had some BAD runs where I just spun forever and a day and maybe ended up with a 13.40 @ 110-112. Yes, I would be closing in on a Z fast at the big end of the track, but the Z's are capable of very high 12s to low 13s stock in ideal conditions, so in a scenario like that the Z could win.

Not to mention if you are going from a dig you need to take reaction time into account. In heads up racing that is usually the deciding factor along with the 60' time.

Now, usually if I have a bad launch I will just kill the run right there. I can tell in the first 60' if I'm going to have a good or a bad run. I used to just coast until track officials yelled at me for taking too long to get down the track.

So now I just leisurely complete the run... 14.xx at 90 mph or something.

I have seen your mustang driving around with Z's in front of it, so I know it can happen.

m4a1mustang · 03-14-2011, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I have seen your mustang driving around with Z's in front of it, so I know it can happen.

BLM · 03-14-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

The key with the 5.0 is it has a huge traction issue stock. The car is under-tired for it's level of power. With a better tire on the car... game over, I'm running sub 12.5 every time.

Yeah I had suggested in another thread that Ford could have cut a deal with American Racing or someone to offer a "sport" wheel/tire package out of the box, or just give it the Boss 302 set-up, but I think that's such a high aftermarket category that they just figured the buyers would assume they're getting wheels/tires as their first mod. I mean, the Z has 275's in the rear and nowhere near the torque of the 5.0 and I chirp the 2-3 shift at WOT. The GT NEEDS at least 285's in the rear, and that should have been OEM. However, perhaps said Boss set-up would have bumped the price of the car to the point where market research could have suggested it would not attract as many buyers?? After all, 11-12 " wheels and 305 tires are not cheap. Even with a crap wheel you're looking at $4-5k for that set-up.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-14-2011, 09:41 AM

I read FORD will add the 6 dct transmission to every car by 2013 and they will focus on better performance with every vehicle they make. Even SUV's. I'm dying to see what a mustang with a 6 dct would feel like? With the extremely quick shifts of dct trannies I'm guessing that 4.4 second sprint to 60 will shrink further. Maybe 4.2 and 12.5 quarter time?
I'm also dying to see camaros answer with the 2012 camaro to the current mustang
As far as tire setup. No matter the cost. They should put the proper shoes. It may cost 4k to a consumer but they buy wholesale and extremely high volumes. They can work some sort of deal that would only affect prices by maybe an extra 1200. If they were able to lower msrp by 500. They must be makin some killer profits anyway.

m4a1mustang · 03-14-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLM

Yeah I had suggested in another thread that Ford could have cut a deal with American Racing or someone to offer a "sport" wheel/tire package out of the box, or just give it the Boss 302 set-up, but I think that's such a high aftermarket category that they just figured the buyers would assume they're getting wheels/tires as their first mod. I mean, the Z has 275's in the rear and nowhere near the torque of the 5.0 and I chirp the 2-3 shift at WOT. The GT NEEDS at least 285's in the rear, and that should have been OEM. However, perhaps said Boss set-up would have bumped the price of the car to the point where market research could have suggested it would not attract as many buyers??

I'm not sure what the deal is. I think a lot of it is price and keeping the car attractive to all. I know some people don't like the thought of a $300 tire.

My GT has the Brembo package which comes with the performance wheels... 19x9 all around with 255 Pirelli PZeros. Good tire but just not enough of it. I think 275 all around would have been a good setup for the Brembo cars.

With the 255s you really need to baby it. Launch off idle and even then it spins like hell in 1st and 2nd gear no matter what you do. Third can be iffy. If you shift a little too hard you're just going to light the tires up. It's definitly a challenge.

GZ3 · 03-14-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I agree that it is a driver's race, but if the 5.0 driver does his job there is no contest. But believe me it's very easy to spin through 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and on into 4th in a 5.0 on your way to a mid 13 second pass if you get overly aggressive with your launch.

Drag races between similar cars are almost always won in the first 60'. Take the GT-R vs. ZR-1 drag races. The Corvette is the faster car, but the GT-R can launch like a bat out of hell. The 'Vette catches up to the GT-R by the end of the 1/4 mile but it's just not enough.

Interestingly, much like the Z, the quickest 5.0s seem to be the automatics. There are a number of documented 12.4 second bone-stock passes at 114+ mph... That would walk away from a 370 with ease.

yes its definatly is easy to spin, when i first got to drive the the 5.0 i drove it like a Z and it just wasnt happening

...the 5.0 just has to much power to soon. Once i got the hang of it though its awesome...its easier to master than the Z. It feels like you really got to be on the ball with a Z to take advantage of it. This weekend I actually get to take it to the drag strip...my best in my Z is 12.82@109 w/drop ins/test pipes/y pipe...i live at the drag though...i know i can push that 5.0 better then my bro in law

m4a1mustang · 03-14-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I read FORD will add the 6 dct transmission to every car by 2013 and they will focus on better performance with every vehicle they make. Even SUV's. I'm dying to see what a mustang with a 6 dct would feel like? With the extremely quick shifts of dct trannies I'm guessing that 4.4 second sprint to 60 will shrink further. Maybe 4.2 and 12.5 quarter time?
I'm also dying to see camaros answer with the 2012 camaro to the current mustang

Yeah, the next generation Mustang will get the 6speed DCT for it's automatic option.

FWIW, the Boss is tested at 3.9 0-60.

The 2014 Mustangs will likely weigh less than 3400 lbs, have about 450 hp, and the 6-speed DCT will be the automatic option. If they give the car enough tire I think you're looking at low 12s right out of the box.

Also, the V6 is going to be replaced by an Ecoboost I-4, which could be interesting. The V6 Mustangs are running solidly in the mid 13s stock right now and mod potential is pretty good, but a turbo 4 could make them even more interesting.

BLM · 03-14-2011, 09:49 AM

Is that 3.9 0-60 in the Boss from the tire or the extra hp with "race key"?

m4a1mustang · 03-14-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLM

Is that 3.9 0-60 in the Boss from the tire or the extra hp with "race key"?

Probably a combination of both. The race key introduces a nice launch control system. I know the MT testers felt the car would have done even better on a better test surface.

FWIW that car was quicker than the M3, Z06, and even the R8 around Laguna Seca... pretty intense!

BLM · 03-14-2011, 09:55 AM

M3 is a tempermental car and you need a good amount of seat time to get used to its intricacies and where you need to keep the revs to get the torque you need. What's really incredible is the time against the Z06 and R8. Was this the V8 R8 model? I can't imagine it beat the V10

m4a1mustang · 03-14-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLM

M3 is a tempermental car and you need a good amount of seat time to get used to its intricacies and where you need to keep the revs to get the torque you need. What's really incredible is the time against the Z06 and R8. Was this the V8 R8 model? I can't imagine it beat the V10

My guess is it was the V8 R8, but I'm not sure.

The Boss lapped in 1:40.2. From the article:

Quote:

How fast is that? Well, we compared those times against a few vehicles from our MRLS lap-time database and were astonished. With a professional racing driver behind the wheel, the 2009 BMW M3 that competed in our 2008 Best Handling competition clocked a 1:42.9. In our 2009 Best Driver's Car competition the 2010 Shelby GT500 lapped in 1:44.3 while a 2010 Audi R8 did it in 1:40.8. This puts the Boss 302 in a very elite field, and it's not the fastest Boss. According to Ford, Bomarito lapped the Boss Laguna Seca under 1 minute and 40 seconds.

Read more: 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca Lap Time - Motor Trend

The interesting thing to note is that this was just the standard Boss 302 model, not the faster, meaner Laguna Seca version.

I'm interested to see how much quicker the LS version is, and to see how both Boss' shake out in the C&D Lightning Lap competition.

BLM · 03-14-2011, 10:17 AM

I think Ford really hit a home run here. Without AWD, it becomes a VERY subtle comparison when production cars are at 400-450 hp and above around a track, even with professional drivers (this is assuming the car isn't a full out race car, gutted with a role cage, one racing seat, no interior, etc). Traction is an issue even with the largest of tires. So, to be able to offer the base Boss at around $40k and the Laguna Seca at a little more, and be able to compete/surpass cars that are AT LEAST twice the price out of the box, is astonishing.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-14-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Yeah, the next generation Mustang will get the 6speed DCT for it's automatic option.

FWIW, the Boss is tested at 3.9 0-60.

The 2014 Mustangs will likely weigh less than 3400 lbs, have about 450 hp, and the 6-speed DCT will be the automatic option. If they give the car enough tire I think you're looking at low 12s right out of the box.

Also, the V6 is going to be replaced by an Ecoboost I-4, which could be interesting. The V6 Mustangs are running solidly in the mid 13s stock right now and mod potential is pretty good, but a turbo 4 could make them even more interesting.

The boss 302 should be the mustang. I hadn't liked mustangs since the old hatchback sleepers till right now and the 302 BOSS is what made me give mustang full props. Even mustang haters gotta luv the BOSS.

BLM · 03-14-2011, 10:42 AM

The Boss is as much a "Mustang" as the Evolution is a "Mitsubishi". Both companies have engineers with PhD's making the cars, they just chose not to exercise their muscle for some time (in the case of the evo) or go dormant (with the Mustang - aside from Cobra's, Saleen's, etc). Look at Nissan. The same company that makes the Z and the GT-R makes a minivan. And it's the minivan's and the Sentra's that dominate the market for Nissan, which is why they can make the Z and GTR "affordable". For companies like Lambo and Ferrari, they only deal with one market, and as expensive and exclusive as they are, the end buyer is paying for all the R&D costs that aren't deflected by the revenue the company could be taking in by offering other auto's that cost less than $180,000.

Vegitto-kun · 03-14-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

The key with the 5.0 is it has a huge traction issue stock. The car is under-tired for it's level of power. With a better tire on the car... game over, I'm running sub 12.5 every time.

(drooooooooooooooool)

I want a 5.0 so badly

03-14-2011, 09:41 AM	#49 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	I read FORD will add the 6 dct transmission to every car by 2013 and they will focus on better performance with every vehicle they make. Even SUV's. I'm dying to see what a mustang with a 6 dct would feel like? With the extremely quick shifts of dct trannies I'm guessing that 4.4 second sprint to 60 will shrink further. Maybe 4.2 and 12.5 quarter time? I'm also dying to see camaros answer with the 2012 camaro to the current mustang As far as tire setup. No matter the cost. They should put the proper shoes. It may cost 4k to a consumer but they buy wholesale and extremely high volumes. They can work some sort of deal that would only affect prices by maybe an extra 1200. If they were able to lower msrp by 500. They must be makin some killer profits anyway. Last edited by UNKNOWN_370; 03-14-2011 at 09:47 AM.

03-14-2011, 09:49 AM	#53 (permalink)
BLM Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 342 Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport Rep Power: 14	Is that 3.9 0-60 in the Boss from the tire or the extra hp with "race key"? __________________ K&N // GTM // BERK

03-14-2011, 09:55 AM	#55 (permalink)
BLM Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 342 Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport Rep Power: 14	M3 is a tempermental car and you need a good amount of seat time to get used to its intricacies and where you need to keep the revs to get the torque you need. What's really incredible is the time against the Z06 and R8. Was this the V8 R8 model? I can't imagine it beat the V10 __________________ K&N // GTM // BERK

03-14-2011, 10:17 AM	#57 (permalink)
BLM Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 342 Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport Rep Power: 14	I think Ford really hit a home run here. Without AWD, it becomes a VERY subtle comparison when production cars are at 400-450 hp and above around a track, even with professional drivers (this is assuming the car isn't a full out race car, gutted with a role cage, one racing seat, no interior, etc). Traction is an issue even with the largest of tires. So, to be able to offer the base Boss at around $40k and the Laguna Seca at a little more, and be able to compete/surpass cars that are AT LEAST twice the price out of the box, is astonishing. __________________ K&N // GTM // BERK

03-14-2011, 10:42 AM	#59 (permalink)
BLM Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 342 Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport Rep Power: 14	The Boss is as much a "Mustang" as the Evolution is a "Mitsubishi". Both companies have engineers with PhD's making the cars, they just chose not to exercise their muscle for some time (in the case of the evo) or go dormant (with the Mustang - aside from Cobra's, Saleen's, etc). Look at Nissan. The same company that makes the Z and the GT-R makes a minivan. And it's the minivan's and the Sentra's that dominate the market for Nissan, which is why they can make the Z and GTR "affordable". For companies like Lambo and Ferrari, they only deal with one market, and as expensive and exclusive as they are, the end buyer is paying for all the R&D costs that aren't deflected by the revenue the company could be taking in by offering other auto's that cost less than $180,000. __________________ K&N // GTM // BERK Last edited by BLM; 03-14-2011 at 10:46 AM.