Bad sales new for z's

[edub370]

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the...dy-z-505493160


can't say it surprises me. just means its a hell of a lot more exclussive than the 350.

read. discuss.

[theDreamer]

Read it and one of the comments is correct.
The Z is beaten in most of the categories it competes in by any other competitor, and then the price is in a bracket that is not the best value for what you get.

[DEpointfive0]

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Read it and one of the comments is correct.
The Z is beaten in most of the categories it competes in by any other competitor, and then the price is in a bracket that is not the best value for what you get.

Yep, exactly

[Red__Zed]

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Read it and one of the comments is correct.
The Z is beaten in most of the categories it competes in by any other competitor, and then the price is in a bracket that is not the best value for what you get.

The price increase is the craziest thing in my mind.

I wonder how many folks driving 09-12 Z's would have bought in at the current price.

[RonZwanson]

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Read it and one of the comments is correct.
The Z is beaten in most of the categories it competes in by any other competitor, and then the price is in a bracket that is not the best value for what you get.

WRONG. Science: The Z is perfect.

It's an interesting write-up on a discussion we've kicked around in here already.

There's a couple things to consider. First, the early 2000s were dominated by import tuning. American "sports" cars were GARBAGE. Since the retro phase came back ~2005, they've really improved and seen a lot of sales. I see far fewer entry-mid level sports cars on the road today, probably due to the economic pinch of the last decade. However, with things starting to turn around, cars like the FR-S/BRZ have better chances of succeeding.

Also, 03 was the first year of the 350Z, which I think was more of a brand new car to most people than the 370z. It had less in common with the 300ZX than the 370 does with the 350, visually and mechanically.

And, as has been beaten to death in the forums, the 370z is part of a dying breed. (Relatively) Big displacement, naturally aspirated, kinda-heavy cars are vanishing. The VQ can't hang around much longer. At this point it would be a freshman in college. It's reliable, it's just old.

As for a BRZ/FR-S competitor, it's also been droned on and on about that EVERY car company wants a competitor for it. I'm of the opinion that Nissan keeps the Z with 240 option beneath it. I think it'd really suck if Nissan's performance options were either a featherweight introductory sports car or a $100k super car with nothing in between. But, of course I'm biased (toward awesome).

In 2009, the Z was way higher on the food chain than it is now. It had more power than the V6 Mustang of that year, more than the V8 Mustang of the previous generation, and offered a much better driving experience. V8 muscle cars are (kind of) immune to the demand for more advanced/efficient engineering, because their market still wants to go fast in a straight line after shredding some rubber. Cars with smaller engines (V6 and under) have to face this challenge head on, because that market doesn't buy cars to spit Skoal and listen to Van Halen. We want more out of our engineering.

Any way you slice it, Nissan's got their work cut out for them. The Z has, in my perception, always resided in the gray area between GTIs, Civic Sis, etc and V8 muscle. It's a tough role to play.

[kfull]

I love my z and have fully enjoyed every mile that I've driven l. That's all that matters to me. And I like the looks of the z way better than any other other car in its category.

[DLSTR]

Originally Posted by kfull

I love my z and have fully enjoyed every mile that I've driven l. That's all that matters to me. And I like the looks of the z way better than any other other car in its category.

POST OF THE DAY! Well said!

[Caustic]

Originally Posted by RonZwanson

...And, as has been beaten to death in the forums, the 370z is part of a dying breed. (Relatively) Big displacement, naturally aspirated, kinda-heavy cars are vanishing. The VQ can't hang around much longer...

They aren't vanishing as evidenced by the sales numbers of Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers. I agree with most of what you said though, especially about the grey area between GTIs and American v8s. But I do think there is space there for it.

Originally Posted by RonZwanson

...that market doesn't buy cars to spit Skoal and listen to Van Halen. We want more out of our engineering...

Awesome.

[RonZwanson]

Originally Posted by Caustic

They aren't vanishing as evidenced by the sales numbers of Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers.

Yeah, I was referring more to cars that aren't American muscle. They're the exception to the rule, because they will always have a "no replacement for displacement" following. (Although rumor has it Ford is slapping a turbo 4 in their next Mustang instead of the V6.) And I actually like a lot of muscle cars too. I've always liked the V8 Mustang.

I meant more of the compact sports car or commuter car. I was talking with my friend the other night about how he loved his 91 Beretta in high school, and how big and stupid that V6 was. You'll never see that again.

[DR_]

Originally Posted by Caustic

They aren't vanishing as evidenced by the sales numbers of Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers.

But most of that volume are the V6 models in the $22-$26 range. If you want sales volume you have to compete in this lower price range. This is the price the average buyer wants to spend. Having a back seat, however small it is, is also what the average buyer wants.

[Caustic]

A lot of people talk about the weight of the car, but its competitors weigh more. 200+ pounds more. The only way to shed more weight is to make the Z smaller, and it is already smaller compared to it's competitors. There is barely any room in the engine bay, and the hatch isn't exactly big either. How much smaller can it get? And they are already using expensive aluminum to drop weight, again making it more expensive.

There really is only one problem with the Z, and that is the engine. Not enough power output in contrast to other cars in its class. At 3.7 liters, there isn't much more room for growth. The only solution to catch up is FI, and that will just make the car even more expensive, and more expensive to repair. But I don't see another way unless they go v8. Hahahaha. I really do wish that would happen though. I know, I know, the Z is a 6 cylinder car. But if they can make the leap from inline to v, why not add two cylinders too?

Or drop it back to 3.5, then put a turbo on it, which is what everyone really wants. Tuners would be salivating. But what would that do to the price?

[UNKNOWN_370]

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Read it and one of the comments is correct.
The Z is beaten in most of the categories it competes in by any other competitor, and then the price is in a bracket that is not the best value for what you get.

Mai Wei Tao's comment was spot on BIG tIME.

"The 370Z is one of the most distinctive cars on the road. At least it is within a price range most would consider affordable. It's styling addressed many of the shortcomings with the 350Z, namely that the design felt incomplete and was starting to look dated by the end of it's run.

The problem with the Z is that it's market has dried up. I think it's a similar problem to what we've seen with less expensive Japanese coupes. The people to whom the car appeals can't afford it and everyone else wants something more upmarket. This is evidenced by the fact that it's expensive twin, the G35/G37 coupe continues to sell fairly well. People want their sportiness immersed in luxury.

A second problem is that it's performance is middling. It's never been a standout in comparisons. There has always been a car better at every individual task than the Z. The fact that people modify them is irrelevant if other cars offer a better starting point.

The Z doesn't enjoy the same kind of loyalty as a Mustang or a Camaro. If they're going to offer a BR-Z/FR-S competitor it would make more sense to revive 240SX. Going upmarket doesn't make sense either, as they've already got the aforementioned G37 and the GT-R. I don't know if the market is there for anything in between either of those cars. A baby GT-R might make more sense.

The point is that as nice as it would be to see a proper successor to the Z I just don't think the market exists anymore. Look at the attention the Juke-R has generated. I don't think the kind of person interested in a performance-oriented compact SUV is ever going to be interested in a low slung sports car. The few who are shop elsewhere."
written by, Mai Wei Tao

[enkei2k]

Honestly, if all I cared about was performance/price ratio and whatever I would have definitely got a Mustang/Camaro/WRX etc. whatever the hell else you want to put in that price bracket.

Main reason why I got a Z was its uncommon-ness (at least in my parts of the world) compared to the rest of the cars. I like to stand out from the rest of the pack

[blackcherry20]

Originally Posted by enkei2k

Honestly, if all I cared about was performance/price ratio and whatever I would have definitely got a Mustang/Camaro/WRX etc. whatever the hell else you want to put in that price bracket.

Main reason why I got a Z was its uncommon-ness (at least in my parts of the world) compared to the rest of the cars. I like to stand out from the rest of the pack

Ithought it was good bang for the buck.
Gt-R was too expensive.
The mustang and ford reliability (for me) kicked it off my list although I really wanted a 302Boss...and there are sooooo many Mustangs around.
Corvette too expensive and "old" for me
and the Camaro was just plain to large. If I wanted a family sedan I would have bought a Maxima or an Accord.
THere really wasn't anything else I was interested in becuase I wanted a true sports car. One that looked like a sports car, not one that could just go fast. I wanted the exclusivity (is that a word?)of a two seater that was sexy.
I have a Z! and it turns heads even with Zero mods

I would be interested in seeing the GM/Ford/ sports car sales numbers. Have they gone down too?

[JungleZ]

If Honda and Toyota wanted to make a sport car it would blow Nissan away in quality,pricing, resale value.

Nissan is a cheap company, nobody really wants their overpriced cars only their cheap economy cars.