What!!!! No ashtray

shadow2k · 03-25-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

We do, in the form of higher insurance premiums.

Bicycles have been proven to pollute more than cars when it comes to CO2 emissions...

Sure, higher insurance premiums already. But did you pay 40% in taxes on your car? 42% is only the amount of the last tax hike in May on cigs, that's not even the total taxes already on them.

Cars...or sports cars? Either way, I take it you're picking the Versa? Or maybe walking? A Vespa even?

I only expect people to be consistent with their ideas. If you want to tax the hell out of my cigs because of all those things, then those same thoughts need to be applied to everything across the board.

I don't even smoke that much anymore. It's just the attitude of the non-smokers that pisses me off. Just because some clownpuncher smokes in the car with his kids, or lights up next to you in a restaurant doesn't mean we all do. I remember going to a bar years ago when this couple brought their kids in and sat right down next to me and my buddy. We went into the back to smoke because of the kids. 10 minutes later, the mom was cutting up the steak for her little boy...knife in one hand, fork and cig in the other, probably dropping ash all over it.

Not every smoker is inconsiderate. We shouldn't all be punished because of it, no more so than you should be punished for other people wrecking their Z's.

kannibul · 03-25-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow2k

Sure, higher insurance premiums already. But did you pay 40% in taxes on your car? 42% is only the amount of the last tax hike in May on cigs, that's not even the total taxes already on them.

Cars...or sports cars? Either way, I take it you're picking the Versa? Or maybe walking? A Vespa even?

I only expect people to be consistent with their ideas. If you want to tax the hell out of my cigs because of all those things, then those same thoughts need to be applied to everything across the board.

I don't even smoke that much anymore. It's just the attitude of the non-smokers that pisses me off. Just because some clownpuncher smokes in the car with his kids, or lights up next to you in a restaurant doesn't mean we all do. I remember going to a bar years ago when this couple brought their kids in and sat right down next to me and my buddy. We went into the back to smoke because of the kids. 10 minutes later, the mom was cutting up the steak for her little boy...knife in one hand, fork and cig in the other, probably dropping ash all over it.

Not every smoker is inconsiderate. We shouldn't all be punished because of it, no more so than you should be punished for other people wrecking their Z's.

Ok, lets play that...figure a car lasts 200K, average driving of 15K/yr (13.33yrs) 22MPG (9090.90 gallons of fuel), and fuel is an average of $3.00/gallon. Over the life of the car that's $27,272.7 in fuel costs. According to Wikipedia, the fuel has 45.6% tax rate, which is $12436.35 in tax paid over the life of the vehicle, not including TT&L (in my case $1400), and tag renewals (another $1140 over 12yrs)

So, that brings the total to just under 15K. I paid $37.4K for my Z. That's 40.1%

Now, take my truck, with the same numbers...

I paid $24000 (roughly), TTL was $900. Tag renewals will be the same. It gets 18MPG on a good day with a bit of a tail wind.

$15200 tax paid on fuel, $2040 on TT&L + renewals = $17240 paid tax = 71.8% tax rate for my truck.

shadow2k · 03-26-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Ok, lets play that...figure a car lasts 200K, average driving of 15K/yr (13.33yrs) 22MPG (9090.90 gallons of fuel), and fuel is an average of $3.00/gallon. Over the life of the car that's $27,272.7 in fuel costs. According to Wikipedia, the fuel has 45.6% tax rate, which is $12436.35 in tax paid over the life of the vehicle, not including TT&L (in my case $1400), and tag renewals (another $1140 over 12yrs)

So, that brings the total to just under 15K. I paid $37.4K for my Z. That's 40.1%

Now, take my truck, with the same numbers...

I paid $24000 (roughly), TTL was $900. Tag renewals will be the same. It gets 18MPG on a good day with a bit of a tail wind.

$15200 tax paid on fuel, $2040 on TT&L + renewals = $17240 paid tax = 71.8% tax rate for my truck.

42% increase in taxes last May on cigs was just the increase, not the total tax. And I don't think 200k is the average lifespan of a car, among other things wrong with the math here. But let's just say for argument's sake that the numbers are equal. All that says to me is don't raise the tax on cigs again.

Heck, you still get to drive your two ton machine of death anywhere you please. The same can't be said for smoking. Maybe I should pay less taxes...I mean, it's only fair. Your driving habit costs a heck of a lot more per year as my smoking habit...if you're truly worried about the costs.

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

Smoking Deaths Cost U.S. $92 Billion a Year
Total costs, including health care, more than $167 billion yearly
The new lost productivity estimate when combined with smoking-related health care costs, which was reported at $75.5 billion in 1998, exceeds $167 billion per year in the United States.

Not that I would stake my life on any of this data being anywhere near accurate, but you get the point.

kannibul · 03-26-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow2k

42% increase in taxes last May on cigs was just the increase, not the total tax. And I don't think 200k is the average lifespan of a car, among other things wrong with the math here. But let's just say for argument's sake that the numbers are equal. All that says to me is don't raise the tax on cigs again.

Heck, you still get to drive your two ton machine of death anywhere you please. The same can't be said for smoking. Maybe I should pay less taxes...I mean, it's only fair. Your driving habit costs a heck of a lot more per year as my smoking habit...if you're truly worried about the costs.

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

Smoking Deaths Cost U.S. $92 Billion a Year
Total costs, including health care, more than $167 billion yearly
The new lost productivity estimate when combined with smoking-related health care costs, which was reported at $75.5 billion in 1998, exceeds $167 billion per year in the United States.

Not that I would stake my life on any of this data being anywhere near accurate, but you get the point.

What's wrong with the math? I provided sources. Oh, I know, I used 12 years instead of 13.3 years for tag renewals - except that year 1 is paid for with TT&L, and I didn't figure .3 years mattered - end result, slightly higher percentage.

Also, I gave an example fuel cost. In 12 years, we'll be lucky if it's $3.00...again, end result, higher tax percent.

200K isn't unreasonable for the average lifespan of a vehicle. Most vehicles will last that long or longer if properly maintained and not abused. My 1997 Ford Ranger lasted until 163K, and the only thing I did was occasionally change the oil, swap the battery twice, new tires twice, a new alternator after soaking the OEM one with water, and the 100K maintenance called for in the manual, at 130K.

It sounded like hell in the engine, but still started and ran fine, 3rd was nearly shot (was grinding when I bought it, at 50K), and there were some things that needed replacement that I felt wasn't worth it - however, after the 2 payments I've made on my new truck, I'm already "behind" on what it would have cost me to fix my old truck, that more than likely, would have made it until 230K if not more. I just got tired of owning it, and wanted it out, and found a good enough reason, and the dealer gave me enough on trade in to make it worthwhile to do so.

My Dad's 77 CJ7 had well over 300,000 miles on it, before the odometer/speedometer stopped working.

I had a 78 Thunderbird that had over 225K.

200K is not an unreasonable estimate for the life of a vehicle.

nuTinmuch · 03-26-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow2k

42% increase in taxes last May on cigs was just the increase, not the total tax. And I don't think 200k is the average lifespan of a car, among other things wrong with the math here. But let's just say for argument's sake that the numbers are equal. All that says to me is don't raise the tax on cigs again.

Heck, you still get to drive your two ton machine of death anywhere you please. The same can't be said for smoking. Maybe I should pay less taxes...I mean, it's only fair. Your driving habit costs a heck of a lot more per year as my smoking habit...if you're truly worried about the costs.

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

Smoking Deaths Cost U.S. $92 Billion a Year
Total costs, including health care, more than $167 billion yearly
The new lost productivity estimate when combined with smoking-related health care costs, which was reported at $75.5 billion in 1998, exceeds $167 billion per year in the United States.

Not that I would stake my life on any of this data being anywhere near accurate, but you get the point.

you are comparing apples to oranges, you know

i'll give you a hint

you don't have to ride your cigarette to work

putting a car on the same level (vice wise) as a nicotine addiction is pretty insane

i mean you are literally comparing the health care costs of something with two statistical bases that are drastically different.

Quote:

I don't smoke, but cigarette taxes in New York City are over $4 a pack.

I don't smoke and I hate it. But I support peoples rights to do it if they please. And any government based tax on goods because they're "bad" for you is unconstitutional crap. It needs to stop.

I'm also quoting this from sixteen thousand pages back just because it is silly. The government isn't taxing these things because they are bad for you, they are taxing them because they are addictive and people will continue to buy them. That is why they tax the "sins" -- because people aren't going to stop doing them. There isn't anything unconstitutional about it. On another note, it is why they need to legalize cannabis use and tax it. They would make a killing.

Also I don't care if people smoke or jump off buildings or singe their pubic hair with a blowtorch, freedoms and all -- but I do care when those things endanger my health. I would argue to the death for someone to smoke in their own home or car or whatever, but get that away from me. I have multiple medical conditions it agitates and while I try to avoid it as much as possible there is always some tool who is smoking on campus or whatever.

edit: also, this is turning into a political discussion and chances are it will be locked, but whatever. I wanted to get my two cents in.

shadow2k · 03-26-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuTinmuch

you are comparing apples to oranges, you know

edit: also, this is turning into a political discussion and chances are it will be locked, but whatever. I wanted to get my two cents in.

You're right, my mistake.

As far as an ashtray, I don't care if there is one or not. I don't smoke in my Z, and even if I did, I would not use the ashtray. While smoking will definitely make your car smell, storing used butts in the car would make it even worse. I use empty coke cans and toss them out daily in my beater, even though it has one.

I do wish it had a cig lighter, because occasionally, your lighter runs off. But I just stash an extra lighter in the glove box, problem solved.

I prefer to step outside my car and admire it while I smoke anyway. That's why I park in back at work, so when I go out to smoke, I can look at it!

Zaggeron · 03-26-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow2k

You're right, my mistake.

I prefer to step outside my car and admire it while I smoke anyway. That's why I park in back at work, so when I go out to smoke, I can look at it!

I'm not missing the ashtray either. Anyway, people talk about putting a change holder in the cup holder on the console. I just use the recess in the cup holder itself.

fullmonty · 03-26-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow2k

I prefer to step outside my car and admire it while I smoke anyway. That's why I park in back at work, so when I go out to smoke, I can look at it!

I do the same

nuTinmuch · 03-26-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

I prefer to step outside my car and admire it while I smoke anyway. That's why I park in back at work, so when I go out to smoke, I can look at it!

I take back everything I said. This makes smoking perfectly acceptable.

Well, provided your car is clean.

tjlazer · 03-29-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow2k

42% increase in taxes last May on cigs was just the increase, not the total tax. And I don't think 200k is the average lifespan of a car, among other things wrong with the math here. But let's just say for argument's sake that the numbers are equal. All that says to me is don't raise the tax on cigs again.

Heck, you still get to drive your two ton machine of death anywhere you please. The same can't be said for smoking. Maybe I should pay less taxes...I mean, it's only fair. Your driving habit costs a heck of a lot more per year as my smoking habit...if you're truly worried about the costs.

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

Smoking Deaths Cost U.S. $92 Billion a Year
Total costs, including health care, more than $167 billion yearly
The new lost productivity estimate when combined with smoking-related health care costs, which was reported at $75.5 billion in 1998, exceeds $167 billion per year in the United States.

Not that I would stake my life on any of this data being anywhere near accurate, but you get the point.

Damn dog. You must be one addicted individual to lay all that out like that. The addiction really has you convinced huh?

I rather pay gas tax and drive a two ton Z with a car payment any old day than *have to buy* 2 packs every single day.
That's just me, and everyone is entitled to do what they want. Just pointing that out... IMHO I think it's just silly to smoke, especially in 2010.

It simply is too damn expensive, too restrictive and too bad on your health... Save your $ and put it toward your Z (or bank account)