Made it out to the range today for the first time in a couple months. Put 260 rounds down range out of my G26. Should be back in the next couple days or so to shake down my 870. w00t.

In older post of other gun forums i've seen the arsenal ak47 on sale for almost half the price $499. What are the chances of that happening again this year?

pics of target, or it didn't happen! :tup:

A few updates to the 870:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T.../s800/870a.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t.../s800/870b.jpg

Knoxx Spec-Ops stock with cheek piece and stock saddle, plus the Remington saddle rail. Just need a reflex sight and it will be finished. :hello:

Nice shot gun. I really like the 870's. Mossberg makes a nice shotgun too.
Someone mentioned ammo prices going sky high because of the commodity prices of copper and lead rising. One option is to reload. Once you get the reloading equipment it feels like the components are much cheaper. If anything, you can wait for sales and buy a little at a time. Plus you get to tailor make the ammunition to your firearm. I have found with rifles I can surpass reasonably priced factory loads, with my reloads as far as accuracy goes. and for less money.

looking sweet steve

fixed :stirthepot:








































































j/k nice shotgun
:roflpuke2:

I used to reload for hunting weapons....44 mag and 30.06, but those were low volume. You can knock of about 50% of the cost if you reload. But currently, I'll go through 1000 rounds of .223 or 9mm in a weekend course. I have a pistol course in August that specs 1200 rounds and a three-day carbine course in October where 1700 rounds of .223 or 5.56 are required. At those volumes, the reloading ends up becoming a hobby in itself and requires big $$ and lots of time to turn out that many shells. Some people really enjoy reloading and set up some very sophisticated reloading shops, but it's not for me.

that looks good man!

That's wild! One of these days I am going to sign up for some classes... they seem like good fun and a great way to hone your skills.

Consider getting the Magpul Dynamics DVD series as a good place to start. Their courses are truly excellent. You would especially like their Dynamic Shotgun videos, but their "Art of the Dynamic Handgun" is great, as are their Tactical Carbine videos. Magpul Dynamics | Products . Travis Haley and Chris Costa are pretty much the rock stars of the tactical shooting world these days. There are a lot of Magpul Dynamics clips on YouTube. Worth looking at. I haven't done the MD shotgun course...I just have a lowly Mossy 500 that I use in local three-gun competition, strictly a rube, but it looks interesting.

The pistol course I'm doing is with Louis Awerbuck (Yavapai Firearms) and the carbine course is with Jeff Gonzales...Combative Carbine II (did CC I last October). Jeff's a Navy SEAL, it's an intense three day course. In CC II, it's pretty much head shots only. We're fortunate here that local law enforcement is very proactive on advanced firearms training, and they bring these types of courses every year and open them to civilians. They are truly a blast.

Thanks for the recommendation, I will check those videos out!

I just placed an order for the reflex sight that Goldy recommended. I have already spent the price of the shotgun in modifications and haven't even shot it yet. Cars, guns, cigars, watches and liquor... why can't I like inexpensive things? :bowrofl:

I definitely need to get some cheap slugs and buckshot so I can have fun with this thing at the range. Next on the list... an AR-15.

Any recommendations under $1,000?

my friend if you are ever in the Orange County area let me know. We will get along just fine

Stay away from DPMS, Bushmaster, CMMG, Olympic...too many corners cut and too high a tendency to fail when pushed.

The best brands are Colt, Noveske, LMT, Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, but those will exceed your $1000. As a starting point, the minimum I'd recommend going is a Smith & Wesson M&P carbine. That is a pretty good rifle.

I base that recommendation on 15 years of SWAT training, as well as many, many carbine courses over the years. I see the weapons that fail when they're run hard.

Word :tup:

Thanks, Mac. I'll keep that in mind. I'm not ready to buy one anytime soon so I may be willing to spend a bit more when the time comes.

Not trying to be personal or insulting, just wanting to contribute. There are many people that know way more than I do. I would agree with the advice to stay away from Olympic Ar-15's. Not familiar with CMMG. I have had several DPMS and a few Bushmasters in my time, and they were all flawless with thousands of rounds. Not a single problem. The DPMS LAR-308 has a BIG following for their accuracy and build Quality. Which I own 2 of. Granted this is not out combat shooting, but shooting for fun with friends and family. In a combat situation, that reliability may change. But for fun and sub $1000 firearms you will be more than good to go.
The last one I bought I purchased a piece at a time and built it for just under $610.00. Free floating 16" barrel, Aero Precision upper and lower, M-16 bolt. Very pleased in its performance and accuracy. Only put around 800 rounds thru it so far. The Aero Precision stuff is good mil-spec quality. Fit and finish were impressive. If I remember correctly Spikes Tactical as well as other well known names have their uppers and lowers manufactured by Aero Precision.
Not many specialized tools needed and lots of free info on the net how to do it safely and correctly. Brownell's has a complete on-line video how to build your AR-15 from parts.

This is cool, check it out!
Bushmaster -The World of Bushmaster - "The Anatomy of a Bushmaster"

Just to throw another opinion into the ring. If I had the time/money/inclination/need to build out another AR-15 for myself today, I'd probably stick to Noveske and/or LMT for the core stuff (receivers, barrel, etc), and flesh it out with Magpul accessories (stock, grip, etc).

Im a fan of the Colt LE6940. Just my opinion.... I used it when being trained for SWAT tactics (Worked a security company where thats what we did. SO I wasn't city SWAT but I was trained by those guys)

Especially at $1300, the Colt 6940 is a great weapon. I have all Noveskes, one of which also has a monolithic upper (VIS). It adds some weight, but is noticeably more rigid. That 6940 would be my first AR if I were doing it again. I would never recommend building an AR as a first rifle...it makes far more sense to buy the complete rifle with warranty etc, shoot it, find out what you like and don't like and how you'd change it, then build your second rifle to address those issues. The variation in parts for building is absolutely dizzying. Unless you know the landscape or have a best buddy who's an AR armorer, I can guarantee frustration.

Buying firearms is an interesting process. Lots of different ways to go. User one-off anecdotes aside, I stand by my view that the bottom-tier weapons like DPMS and Bushmaster are not good value. I say that having seen those kinds of rifles in action...DPMS headquarters is about 60 miles from here in St. Cloud and I shoot at their range a few times a year, including their annual Omega:Outbreak Zombie three-gun. Guys show up with their bottom-tier rifles all tricked out, and halfway into the shoot they start getting bolt carrier failures, failures to extract, failures to eject, magazine problems, trigger issues, etc. I've seen that same thing at 1000-round carbine courses and on police ranges (there are a few police agencies around here that have some DPMS rifles because of that compy's proximity, their aggressive low bidding process and because usually department weapon procurement is made by bean counters rather than shooters. If we're talking about a range toy for a couple of hundred rounds a year and showing off to my "Army rifle" to my buddies at the range, that's one thing, but just as I would be more likely to buy a Milwaukee or DeWalt drill instead of a cheap knockoff from Harbor Freight, that would never be the route that I'd take. Obviously, I'm biased based on my observations and experience, but when it comes to weapons, especially given the abuse I heap on them, I would much rather buy professional-grade.

Alright, so I pretty much need to budget at least $1,500 if I want one that I can really rely on. Thanks for all the advice, guys.

For browsing if and when you want to make that move:

Daniel Defense XV M4 Carbine (OUT OF STOCK) at G&R Tactical

BCM 16" Mid-Length Rifle (OUT OF STOCK) at G&R Tactical

Rainier Arms, LLC™ | Browse | AR15 Rifles

Complete Rifles : Spikes Tactical

Clyde Armory

Clyde Armory

Clyde Armory

Clyde Armory


Some observations:

• all of these companies are reliable
• NOBODY argues about the quality of Colt, Noveske, LMT, Bravo Company, or Daniel Defense rifles. Spike's Tactical you'll get some disagreement among serious shooters about their quality
• G&R Tactical specializes in helping you assemble a rifle you want..you're not limited to complete rifles. It works great to call Grant at G&R, tell him what you want, and he'll either get you the rifle, or assemble it from parts for you. He is very friendly and helpful.
• .223/5.56 NATO is a standard cartridge that is pretty cheap and available. Little recoil. Best choice for shooting, but if you plan to hunt with it primarily, you might want a .308 version instead
• I would avoid the gas piston guns, go with a standard Direct Impingement gas system. Tried and true, and standard on these rifles for over 40 years. Not much mystery there.
• Get a 16 inch barrel
• Get a midlength gas system...much less recoil impulse, no downside
• Virtually every (quality) AR15 mfgr is backordered currently
• Don't forget to consider an optic. 1-4x scope vs Red Dot Sight. You may opt to learn the gun with its irons sights before taking that $500 step.
• Take a course. It will teach you how it works, how to maintain it, and how to shoot it effectively.

Thank you very much, Mac! That's some great info. :tup:

MacCool gives good advice. I wasn't really thinking about a new shooter of AR's when I said that about building one.
And I would also agree there are better made rifles than DPMS and Bushmaster. But essentially that was my point, unless you need one for competition, combat or a rifle that can meet the demands of dispatching killer hoards of zombies, you will be OK with one of the less expensive rifles. I would stay away from the Olympic rifles. I have seen a few and the fit, finish and reliability just are not there. For a little extra money you can do much better.
There is such a wealth of information on the net, to be able to make an informed decision on what you need for your particular situation. I find sifting through all the information is half the fun of the purchase.

The purpose of any AR I buy/build would be to shoot at the range for fun. But it also has to be able to fend off waves of hostile zombies if necessary! :icon17:

:tup:

http://SSEquine.net/sbr2.jpg

Awesome!!!

Here's my AR. Not sure how anyone feels about POF brand but i like em:happydance:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...7-07031923.jpg

"Zombie Killer"! Shoot some one with that, and a prosecuting attorney will wave that in the jury's faces!

I appreciate your concern.

Many thanks to Goldy for the red dot recommendation... it's very nice!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-N...1000/870_2.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4...800/reddot.jpg

I should be able to get out to the range this Sunday with it to have some fun. :tup:

Mmmmm! Shotguns!

Just bought me an M4S90 and have $1200 worth of goodies to bolt onto it when it hits the door! Pix when it's done.

Looks clutch man. Hope you like it (zeroing for me was pretty much not an issue. Came zero'd for the most part when I was hitting it with slugs)

State Troopers/ Highway Patrol don't seem to have a problem choosing/using Sig's!

state ~ make/model ~ caliber
AL ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
AK ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
AZ ~ SIG P229 ~ .40S&W
AR ~ Glock 21SF ~ .45ACP
CA ~ S&W Model 4006TSW ~ .40S&W
CO ~ S&W M&P40 ~ .40S&W
CT ~ SIG P229 ~ .40S&W
DE ~ SIG P229 ~ .40S&W
FL ~ Glock 37Gen4 ~ .45GAP
GA ~ Glock 37 ~ .45GAP
HI ~ S&W Model 5906 ~ 9x19mm
ID ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
IL ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
IN ~ Glock 17 ~ 9x19mm
IA ~ S&W M&P40 ~ .40S&W
KS ~ Glock 21 ~ .45ACP
KY ~ Glock 35 ~ .40S&W
LA ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
ME ~ H&K USP45 ~ .45ACP
MD ~ Beretta PX4 ~ .40S&W
MA ~ SIG P226 ~ .40S&W
MI ~ SIG P226 ~ .40S&W
MN ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
MS ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
MO ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
MT ~ SIG P229 ~ .40S&W
NE ~ Glock 21 ~ .45ACP
NV ~ SIG P229 ~ .40S&W
NH ~ S&W M&P45 ~ .45ACP
NJ ~ SIG P228 ~ 9x19mm
NM ~ S&W M&P357 ~ .357SIG
NY ~ Glock 37 ~ .45GAP
NC ~ S&W M&P357 ~ .357SIG
ND ~ S&W Model 4506 ~ .45ACP
OK ~ SIG P226 ~ .357SIG
OH ~ SIG P226 ~ .40S&W
OR ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
PA ~ Glock 37 ~ .45GAP
RI ~ SIG P226 ~ .357SIG
SC ~ Glock 37 ~ .45GAP
SD ~ SIG P229 ~ .357SIG
TN ~ Glock 31 ~ .357SIG
TX ~ SIG P226 ~ .357SIG
UT ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
VT ~ SIG P229 ~ .40S&W
VA ~ SIG P229 ~ .357SIG
WA ~ S&W M&P40 ~ .40S&W
WV ~ S&W Model 4566TSW ~ .45ACP
WI ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W
WY ~ Glock 22 ~ .40S&W

caliber breakdown
9x19mm = 3 (6%)
.357SIG = 8 (16%
.40S&W = 27 (54%)
.45GAP = 5 (10%)
.45ACP = 7 (14%)

If only those firearms purchasing decisions were being made by the actual end-users and armorers according to maintenance requirements and reliability instead of by the bean counters more concerned about their department's budget. Firearms purchases by law enforcement organizations is always low-bid. Performance and reliability takes a back seat. Glock in particular has moved away from their previously aggressive department pricing. Sig is desperate to get into the market. Looks like they dropped their prices but maintained their margins by cutting quality. Their current problems with quality control since Ron Cohen took over as CEO are well-known.

Ron Cohen was the CEO at Kimber before SigArms hired him, if that tells you anything.

Never heard of Ron Cohen, and Kimber's unless you go to L.A., are non existent around here.

just watched this... all I have to say... AMAZING lol

What is your choice of brand?

I was looking to getting a springfield XD or possible an XDm.

Personally, I use a Sig P229 .40 cal. It's a German model I bought it 1996. It is a fantastic pistol. It has probably about 15,000 round through it. Virtually no wear on any of the mating surfaces. All I've ever had to do to it is replace a few springs. The newer Sigs, while the same form factor, have some serious quality and design problems. Grips and grip screws are a nightmare, weak or failure-prone recoil springs, hammer failures, excessive slide wear, broken extractors, broken trigger bars, crappy magazines....this stuff all related to me by a buddy who's a Sig armorer for the Sheriff's department. They recently went back to issuing Glocks because it was getting to be a hassle keeping Sig replacement parts on hand.

For a game gun, I use a S&W M&P 9L. It's an OK pistol. I replaced the sear and striker along with a reset-assist device and that took that trigger from "marginal" to "really excellent". It's been reliable for me...I can't think of any failures. I use it in 9mm because that ammo is cheap and low recoil. It's been a good competition pistol for me and I like the 23 round magazines. Having said that, I don't think I'd use the M&P as a carry-weapon or duty-weapon.

If my P229 exploded tomorrow, I'd replace it in .40 with an H&K P30. If I couldn't get the P30, I would reluctantly get a Glock 23. "Reluctant" only because I find the Glocks to be ugly, uninspired weapons. From a standpoint of reliability and accuracy, they are excellent and I wouldn't hesitate to trust my life to one.

As to the XD/XDm, my business partner has an XDm and he really likes it a lot. AFAIK, it's been reliable for him. He's had some trouble finding holsters that work well with it, but otherwise he's had no complaints. We both have a firearms course coming up on the 21st, and then a two day 1000-round course with Louis Awerbuck in August. Those two events ought to represent a good opportunity to find any weak spots that particular pistol. As I mentioned earlier, the XDs are generally regarded as only being "OK" among the people I shoot a lot with. I will say that one reason I see for any scorn the XD's might get appears to be more related to the way they are so often pushed by gun store owners. They have a higher margin in the XDs for some reason and they are readily available, so they get blindly pushed without regard for any drawback they might have. As a group, gun shop owners are probably one of the single worst sources of good advice on firearms. When they start pushing a brand as intensely as they tend to push the XD's, knowledgeable firearms enthusiasts become very suspicious.

I've always been a Glock & Colt fan... Also I've been eye balling the Kimber SIS



I've heard bad, and good. Wouldn't be a carry gun, just my fun gun.