This weekend. Goes Sunday/Monday. I just re-replaced the sights on my M&P9L - back to the OEM 3-dots. I just could not warm up to the two-dot Warrens. They're mechanical dead-center but I have to sight them in. My buddy with the XDm .40 is clamoring to do a little prep work before this weekend. Probably a good idea - I hate to go to these things rusty, although we both just did a defensive handgun course about a week ago. I used the Sig .40 for that defensive course since that's what I carry, but I prefer my M&P in 9mm for these high round-count courses where I'm shooting with a bunch of cops and don't want to look bad (in fact, the instructor for the defensive handgun course is a student at this upcoming course too).

Bought a new toy, but I can't have it for 4-5 months. *impatient whining*

I really think 9mm is where it's at. The bad rap that it got came from:

a)poor marksmanship (lots of thugs just pointing and clicking, not many people die that way)
b)sub-standard ammunition in the 80's
c)a lot of people who want to cite .38 revolver performance on a far away island using ball ammunition compared to .45 LC revolver performance also using ball ammunition.
d)appeals to many different logical fallacies too numerous to name.

Using modern JHP ammunition, the 9mm will get the job done, and you can't put a price on more chances to hit your target when actual hit percentages in gunfights are so low.

stuff a tampon in, you'll be ok....



but seriously.. what is it?

Decided I was going to do my Noveske M4 setup right and bought an M4-2000 MOD08

mmmm M4...
I need to get one myself.. like this one. which was mine.. for 6mo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...uandarmour.jpg

That's a nice can. Sadly, Minnesota is a no-suppressor state. Otherwise both of my Noveske SBRs would have one with switchblocks.

I thought about an SBR, too, but ironically, the suppressor and the AOW are the only 2 NFA items I am aware of that you can cross state lines with without a BATFE permission slip, which means I can travel and go shooting without a bunch of paperwork. That's the only reason I did it. Once it's yours, just stay out of the states that don't allow them and you're G2G.

Something like this
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z...3/IMG_0103.jpg

The terminal ballistics of 9mm just don't hold up to .40 S&W, but IMHO those are mostly laboratory findings. I agree with you that many, many people blame the round when tactics and shot placement are the real culprits. The superiority of .40 gets a little thin in real-world shootings these days, but the basis of .40 S&W of course was the 1986 Miami FBI shootout. The FBI's basis for switching to the 10mm round (then later the .40 S&W when they saw the negatives of the 10mm blast and recoil) was the medical examiner's report. His rather exhaustive analysis made mention of the very remarkable accuracy of the FBI agents, especially under fire, but that the 9mm rounds just weren't having the incapacitating effect that they would have expected from the shot placement. The thing that makes me a little skeptical is that the first gunman took a shot to the chest right off the bat which collapsed his lung and hit his pulmonary artery. That wasn't a survivable wound, but most of the injuries and deaths he inflicted occurred after that wound. I doubt that a .40 cal would have made him die any faster.

Turnaround time on an ATF form 5320-20 is reliably less than two weeks. It's pretty simple - download the form, fill it out and mail it. You can put an end date of up to 364 days.

I am 100% comfortable with the 9mm round. Like has been mentioned already, quality, modern ammunition and shot placement are critical. And I'm quite confident in my shot placement.

Anyways, went to the range yesterday with a friend. Shot his M&P .45. Nice gun. It did further solidify my belief that the Glock pistols are a better fit for me, but it was still nice.

The real treat was his Ruger GP100. I think I have to buy one now. It'd make a great trail gun.

Well. Kinda. Full rail, ACOG, midlength gas system, sopmod stock, troy buis, etc. Same can though!

the failure was due to the bullet used. They now have ammo that expands well and penetrates 12"+. Then, it was kinda either/or.

Still a pain as I'm 20 minutes from 2 state lines. Would rather not. Besides, sbr's are hard on silencers.

What I would do is go ahead and register the lower receiver as an SBR per ATF. Assemble an SBR upper in barrel length of choice. Run a can, or not...I wouldn't be concerned about a suppressor on an SBR..they're not that hard on a quality device like the AAC. Then, I'd also get a 16" plus upper for the SBR receiver and if I were going out of the state and didn't want to do a form 5320.20, I'd just slap the long-barrel upper on the lower, screw the suppressor on it and go on out of town (making sure not to "retain control" of the short-barrel upper - IOW don't take it with you).

The suppressor is registered separately as a stand-alone item. It's not part of any particular firearm so it can be interchanged between rifles at will with no illegalities. Long barrel, short barrel, multiple rifles...whatever. All legal.

The receiver might be registered as an SBR, but if it has a long-barrel upper on it, it's removed from ATF purview (no longer an NFA item) as long as you don't "retain control" of the short-barrel upper. The phrase "retain control" is a little fuzzy, but the ATF interprets it to mean in proximity to the gun such that it can be installed right away. And, of course, there's the practicality issue. You're not going to accidently bump into an ATF agent who would then run your rifle's serial number. He'd have no reason to. As to local law enforcement, it depends on the state, but states that don't specifically state that the SBR has to be NFA-registered removes it from the jurisdiction of non-Federal law enforcement. As long as it has a 16"+ barrel on it, you could take that NFA-registered SBR to any state where AR's are legal.


/

All true, but I don't feel a need for an SBR. The shorter the barrel/gas-system on an AR, the worse it performs, in general.

Once you get below about 11.5 inches, gas systems can get a little finnicky due to the decrease in dwell time. An 11.5 inch SBR has about a 40% greater dwell time than a 10.5, so 11.5 and above---no problem. Add a suppressor, things can get a little more complicated, solved with an adjustable gas system like the Switchblock.

As to performance, I lose about 250 FPS with my 11.5 compared to my 16 inch using PMC .223 ammo in 55 gr. Since my SBRs are entirely for shooting at 50 yards or less, there is no meaningful performance degradation for my purposes. YMMV. For those who want a rifle to shoot out at 100 yards and beyond with MOA accuracy, an SBR wouldn't be the best choice.




That, of course, is the bottom line. The reason I persist on the subject is that I wouldn't want anyone to get inaccurate impressions.


/

I have seen a lot more people with baffle-strikes on the <14.5" guns, though. Further, gas-port noise is enhanced greatly.

I just don't mind the extra barrel length and the CDI factor isn't enough to make me pursue it.

An SBR can be very accurate at 100+ yards, though. Don't limit yourself to 50 yards.

As to your point:
-Yes, 10.5-11.5" guns are reliable with a can.
-The new SOST ammo (tested some the other day, love it!) was designed to function out to 100m from the 10.5" barrel.
-No SBR's are not less accurate.
-You need a brake instead of a flashhider if you run a SBR and a can. Your can will thank you and the blast baffle will last a LOT
longer.
-The shorter the barrel, the more you need an adjustable gas-system (like the Noveske SB. Speaking of which...where can you buy replacement gas-tubes for that thing?)

I limit myself to 50 yards with an SBR because I'm not interested in shooting farther, not because the rifle can't hack it. As you note, they can be very accurate if you use a quality barrel. I do sight in my red dot sights from a sandbag rest with a 3x magnifier, but otherwise I never use the magnifier nor do I shoot from the bench. A 3 inch group at 50 yards is completely acceptable to me. For my purposes, if I can put two in the chest and one in the head from 50 yards on a 3-D paper target while moving...that's my Holy Grail. SOST ammo is techically interesting but irrelevant to my needs and would/will be unnecessarily expensive in the volumes that I shoot.

I don't worry about suppressors because I can't use them anyway (illegal). I do use brakes on all my rifles (BattleComps). They're great.



/

Are you guys talking about gas impingement or piston ar15? Or it doesn't matter?

That sucks. Where do you live?
I like the SOST stuff. It's good to have a few rounds in the wings. Other than that, XM193 is good enough for me and plenty cheap.

EDIT: Changed my order from an M4-2000 to an SPR/M4 in the nick of time!

Stickied. :tup:

Minnesota. The DNR is an inordinately powerful organization here and they have persuaded the legislature that if suppressors become legal, everybody would be out crawling through the woods poaching deer and the DNR would never know because, of course, a suppressor turns a loud rifle report into nothing more than a pffft.:rolleyes:

I'm not sure I see the advantage of a gas piston on the AR platform. A friend of mine has started a line of gas piston guns (Huldra Arms). It's a very nice weapon, but I haven't yet bought into its superiority over direct impingement.

Same. DI is what the entire weapon was designed for. Piston systems place stress on components not meant to be stressed. IMO they are worthless, as the junk in the weapon also comes back up the bore on a suppressed rifle because the pressure in the can has not equalized by the time the bolt un-locks and you get blow-back through the barrel.

Changed my order from an M4-2000 to the SPR/M4 at the last minute btw : )

Is the Ruger SR556 above reliable?

AFAIK, mixed reviews. It's a pretty well-designed rifle, some components designed from the ground up for gas piston, but others conventional DI. They are prone to carrier tilt, like most piston guns, and that does cause more wear on the buffer/tube. Of more concern would be the reports of malfunctions in various positions. I keep hearing of failure to feed, for example, when the gun rests on the magazine butt (as in prone shooting). Also, failure to eject in rollover prone. My general impression, never having fired one, is that they're "OK" as far as piston guns go. At that price, if I were going to buy a piston gun I would definitely go with a Huldra. That gun is made for that private label by Adams Arms. Huldra did mandate several modifications and upgrades. They put over 4000 rounds of 5.45 through one of their rifles without any cleaning nor any lube...no maintenance of any kind..without any malfunctions. They used 5.45 because they had a large stock of cheap surplus ammo.

The problem I have with piston guns is largely that you're paying about an extra $400 for the gas system, but certainly aren't getting $400 worth of advantage over a DI...some would say no advantage.

It's hard to separate fact from rumor when it comes to Ruger, and this is probably more true in the AR15 crowd. People that shoot those rifles have a little more of a tendency to be rabid Second Amendment fans and those folks have a tendency to believe that Bill Ruger tried to sell them down the river to Congress in order to keep the Mini-14 out of the Assault Weapons Ban. I always take Ruger criticisms with a grain of salt.

I just read a little while ago about Bill and Congress, I wasn't aware of his doings:mad:!
After looking more into Ruger, the price is too high. I'm checking out Bravo Company, prices are way more reasonable!
I know very little about "assault weapons". I just made my mind up yesterday that I want one! Were moving to Tenn., after the 1st of the year, "gun friendly state"! About the middle of next year, I should have enough $ put away for one!

Buy from BCM. They will sell you a great weapon at a great price with no BS.

Bravo Company is absolutely top quality with excellent customer service. I have BCM barrels on two of my SBRs and always use their bolt carrier groups. The biggest problem with them is that they simply don't have the manufacturing capacity to keep up with the demand for their excellent rifles and occasionally suspend rifle sales while they try to catch up. Currently, you can't buy a rifle from Bravo Company -- they anticipate resuming taking orders sometime "summer 2011". In the meantime, another excellent rifle is Daniel Defense...they might be more available a little sooner. And, be aware that you can buy a Colt 6920 for $1095.99. Colt is still at the top of the heap relative to overall quality in the AR platform.

Two good places to shop rifles are Rainier Arms and G&R Tactical. If you call or email G&R, ask Grant about availability. He can give you great advice and put together a great package. He's utterly reliable and prices as good as anywhere G&R Tactical . He might have some Bravo Company units around. He's the kind of guy that if you describe basically what you want to do with the gun, he'll suggest appropriate rifles and accessories. He is objective and honest, and won't give you self-serving advice.

I wouldn't go with a piston gun for my first AR...I'd get one that works the way the platform was designed - direct impingement.

I agree with everything except for this. There are several Colts in my Dad's rifle safe, and I prefer the Sabre Defense rifles to them. They have better fit-finish, normal size FCG pins, and the full-auto carriers. My Dad has a CAR and a HBAR6601 from Colt. While the 6920 will have normal small-pins in the FCG, it is still far from the fit/finish of the Sabre's I have handled and own.

This is not to say it isn't a GREAT! rifle and a steal at that price and it WILL be reliable. I am just saying that to call it the best is an over-statement. It may come the closest to following the TDP, but the TDP is a rigid set of specifications. I think a mid-length gas setup is a vast improvement for the 14.5" rifle, among other things offered by other manufacturers.

Both G&R and Rainier are top notch as you say, but both are in the camp with ADM, and I dare anyone to prove that ADM makes a mount half as good as LaRue's offerings (It seems there is a LaRue camp, and an ADM and co. camp). They offer great rifles and advise on them, but I'll take the LaRue mount over ADM any time. G&R is priced more reasonably than Rainier, but Rainier seems to ship faster and they have a professional photographer that photographs their inventory for them. Insanely nice photo's of their product on their page.

I don't entirely disagree with your points. Let's say that Colt is toward the top of the heap, then. It's true that the TDP is one thing, but fit and finish does tend to be better on some of the other first-tier brands. I'm a big Noveske fan, but I also own a Stag 2T and the finish on that is better than on my buddy's 6920. Not that the 6920 finish is bad, but its more consistent with that of a working tool.

I feel less strongly about ADM vs Larue mounts, but I've never used anything but Larue and have no have absolutely complaints. I have more Eotechs than Aimpoints, though - I'm certainly no expert on mounts.

As to gas systems, I entirely agree that a mid-length gas system represents a noticeable improvement in recoil impulse on rifles with 14.5 and 16 inch barrels. I'm not particularly recoil-sensitive, but my mid-length Noveske Light Recce with a BattleComp muzzle brake makes for a very controllable rifle.

I have a course coming up in October with Jeff Gonzales (CC2) - three days/2100 rounds. I'm going to use the SBR I built from a matched Noveske upper/lower, BCM BFH barrel (11.5), and BCM BCG, but I'm certainly going to take the Light Recce along with me.

went to the range today with the XDm 45acp!
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5791674_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...12_45261_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2690145_n.jpg

Softcat looks very disturbed by what it's seeing in first picture.

Anyone know where I can find a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 for the Glock 9mm mags? Online it looks like only the Glock .40 versions are readily available, as well as some Beretta 9mm.

http://www.thehighdefinite.com/wp-co...en-handgun.jpg
http://www.thehighdefinite.com/wp-co...en-handgun.jpg

In VA I just carry the damn thing out in the open. :icon17:

I was thinking the same thing about AZ :icon17:

I always try to carry concealed. I'd rather those who mean to do harm not know about my hardware until I'm ready for them to know. The bit about running is spot on however. Any time I have to jog or run while carrying, my hand instinctively presses down on the gun to keep it secure.

I OC'd to the store today in the rain. Didn't run. :tup:

But yes, I much prefer to CC.

And a lot of times I keep my jacket open in the winter regardless of whether I have a gun on me or not. The only time I will zip it up is if it's really windy.