Anyone here into firearms?

black_sedan · 05-07-2014, 09:00 AM

For $500 i would suggest the Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm, add the Apex Tactical 3.5# trigger and you'll have a very reliable shooter. I have probably put 5k rounds through mine without an issue. If its a carry gun, I would leave the trigger at stock weight.

In your price range, you cant go wrong with the M&P, Glock or Springfield XD/XDM, its just preference.

Chuck33079 · 05-07-2014, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black_sedan

For $500 i would suggest the Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm, add the Apex Tactical 3.5# trigger and you'll have a very reliable shooter. I have probably put 5k rounds through mine without an issue. If its a carry gun, I would leave the trigger at stock weight.

In your price range, you cant go wrong with the M&P, Glock or Springfield XD/XDM, its just preference.

I love my my M&P compact. It's great. I have the Apex trigger but I haven't put it in yet. With a mini flashlight and Crimson Trace grip it's a great concealed/car pistol.

MacCool · 05-07-2014, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black_sedan

For $500 i would suggest the Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm, add the Apex Tactical 3.5# trigger and you'll have a very reliable shooter. I have probably put 5k rounds through mine without an issue. If its a carry gun, I would leave the trigger at stock weight.

In your price range, you cant go wrong with the M&P, Glock or Springfield XD/XDM, its just preference.

I have an M&P 9L. After I put an Apex DCAEK in it to give it a reasonable trigger, and a hand-fitted Storm Lake barrel to correct its accuracy problems (earlier M&Ps were known for poor or inconsistent lock-up) it's at least a functional pistol. Clearly inferior to the PPQ, but it's functional and accurate now. It does auto-forward about 85% of the time on magazine insertion. Not really an issue, but I wish it would either do it 100% of the time, or 0%. Generally, M&Ps are fairly highly regarded these days. Reportedly their quality and consistency has improved since I bought mine several years ago, according to Louis Awerbuck at the last pistol course I took in August. My decision to try a Walther PPQ two years ago was on the advice of Larry Vickers, who is very enthusiastic about that pistol. It was great advice for me. He also advised against current 9mm Glocks (Gen 3 and Gen 4), advice which I ignored but later found to be absolutely correct.

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black_sedan · 05-07-2014, 11:31 AM

I use the M&P for USCA 2 gun and USPSA matches so I like that the glocks and M&P have lots of accessories and mags available. I have heard issues with earlier productions needing the barrels replaced, but mine is a 2012 model and it seems to be pretty accurate when I dont throw my shots off.

The PPQ is a nice pistol and has a good trigger out of the box. Very similar to the HK p30 but cheaper.

What issues have you seen with the Gen3/4 glocks? I've been eyeing a gen4 G19 to replace my gen2.

If I had the coin, I'd love to take one of the Vickers courses. I highly recommend anyone that is into firearms to try a 2 gun or 3 gun competition. Its the most fun i've had outside of my z.

MacCool · 05-07-2014, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by black_sedan

I use the M&P for USCA 2 gun and USPSA matches so I like that the glocks and M&P have lots of accessories and mags available. I have heard issues with earlier productions needing the barrels replaced, but mine is a 2012 model and it seems to be pretty accurate when I dont throw my shots off.

The PPQ is a nice pistol and has a good trigger out of the box. Very similar to the HK p30 but cheaper.

What issues have you seen with the Gen3/4 glocks? I've been eyeing a gen4 G19 to replace my gen2.

If I had the coin, I'd love to take one of the Vickers courses. I highly recommend anyone that is into firearms to try a 2 gun or 3 gun competition. Its the most fun i've had outside of my z.

Erratic ejection, especially brass-to-face. It's a pretty notorious issue with later versions of the Gen 3 and current Gen 4 Glocks in 9mm.

As to Vickers...I've taken a couple of courses from him. Wouldn't do it again...lots of good trainers out there at his level. He's not my favorite.

Click image for video

Chuck33079 · 05-07-2014, 12:11 PM

My G17L threw a casing right back at me, which bounced off the underside of my hat and lodged between the bridge of my nose and safety glasses. It took a major act of willpower to slowly put the pistol down and get it out.

synolimit · 05-07-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

I have a Sig P229 in .40 caliber that I've owned since about 1997. Fantastic handgun. (It's for sale, by the way...) but it's a German frame from before the days they were made in the US.

Since then, I've been warned repeatedly by firearms trainers and Sig armorers about the quality of Sig manufacture since the changeover in 2003. Sig quality, or lack thereof, has been discussed a lot on a lot of firearms forums for several years now. Before buying a current Sig, I'd cruise the forums a lot, Google "Sig quality control", and investigate the issue.
]

I've seen the talks too. Seems to very firearm specific! On ar15.com and others the sp2022 has a lot of praise while the 556 ak style in 7.62 is a nightmare. My 556 in 5.56 is great. Zero issues.

Then there's negatives I've seen with smith m&p. two guys in police academy had jam and stove pipe issues along with my brother in law. To me I think smith is junk. Everyone has there own experiences though.

black_sedan · 05-07-2014, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

My G17L threw a casing right back at me, which bounced off the underside of my hat and lodged between the bridge of my nose and safety glasses. It took a major act of willpower to slowly put the pistol down and get it out.

Ouch... I always tell the wife to wear a regular shirt when going to the range. She wore a tank top a few weeks back and got burned on the fun bags.

Tweek · 05-07-2014, 11:17 PM

Never had any issues with Sig either. My P226 Tacops is around 3 years old, and the only malfunction I've had with it was a single failure to feed when trying out my own "subsonic" handloads.

EDIT: Specifically the Tacops does indeed have issues in general. But that has to do with the not Mec-Gar made magazines, and not Sig itself per se.

MacCool · 05-08-2014, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweek

Never had any issues with Sig either.

Well, that two people with no problems. Sigs must be good to go then....

synolimit · 05-08-2014, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Well, that two people with no problems. Sigs must be good to go then....

And people that don't own a USA sig and just hear things means they must be bad?

Tweek · 05-08-2014, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Well, that two people with no problems. Sigs must be good to go then....

So because I decided to contribute my own personal experience of owning Sig firearms into the discussion, I am declaring there have never been issues with Sig?

Gotcha.

EDIT: Btw, out of around 20 people I know that own Sig USA made firearms, one has had issues with his. And he got his switched to a new one with no issues, no hassle, no problems whatsoever.

These firearms include everything from P226 & 229, X-five & X-Six, their piston AR series etc. etc.

So, from what I personally gather, is that the minority that has had issues with their firearms are indeed a very vocal minority. I also guess you are probably going to hate me for saying I know about 200% more people that have had Glocks catastrophic failure on them and M&P's that won't feed anything.

MacCool · 05-08-2014, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by synolimit

And people that don't own a USA sig and just hear things means they must be bad?

I know a guy with a HiPoint 9mm that has had no problems. I know a couple of guys with DPMS rifles that run reliably. I even know a guy with a Rock River Arms rifle that works fine. Amazing things happen on a one-off basis in manufacturing that defy the apparent odds. Every company can make a good individual pistol every now and then on any given day, just as any of of them can make a bad one. The question is....what is the liklihood? When companies pay less attention to their quality control, when they start using MIM parts farmed out to the lowest bidder, when they start trying to save money by cutting corners in the manufacturing process...the liklihood drops. In this thread, we have at least two guys who got lucky. I'm pleased for you. I personally wouldn't buy a modern Sig because I perceive that the odds aren't good enough to risk it. I can see how your opinion would be different.

Chuck33079 · 05-08-2014, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

I even know a guy with a Rock River Arms rifle that works fine.

You've had issues with Rock River ARs? I've never had a problem with mine, and neither has anyone I know.

synolimit · 05-08-2014, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

I know a guy with a HiPoint 9mm that has had no problems. I know a couple of guys with DPMS rifles that run reliably. I even know a guy with a Rock River Arms rifle that works fine. Amazing things happen on a one-off basis in manufacturing that defy the apparent odds. Every company can make a good individual pistol every now and then on any given day, just as any of of them can make a bad one. The question is....what is the liklihood? When companies pay less attention to their quality control, when they start using MIM parts farmed out to the lowest bidder, when they start trying to save money by cutting corners in the manufacturing process...the liklihood drops. In this thread, we have at least two guys who got lucky. I'm pleased for you. I personally wouldn't buy a modern Sig because I perceive that the odds aren't good enough to risk it. I can see how your opinion would be different.

I see what you're saying and I've seen issues with some rifles. I've never seen or experienced a sig hand gun problem though!! I'd trust my sp2022 over many many others!!

05-07-2014, 11:31 AM	#3454 (permalink)
black_sedan Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 308 Drives: 14' F150, 14' Q50 Rep Power: 13	I use the M&P for USCA 2 gun and USPSA matches so I like that the glocks and M&P have lots of accessories and mags available. I have heard issues with earlier productions needing the barrels replaced, but mine is a 2012 model and it seems to be pretty accurate when I dont throw my shots off. The PPQ is a nice pistol and has a good trigger out of the box. Very similar to the HK p30 but cheaper. What issues have you seen with the Gen3/4 glocks? I've been eyeing a gen4 G19 to replace my gen2. If I had the coin, I'd love to take one of the Vickers courses. I highly recommend anyone that is into firearms to try a 2 gun or 3 gun competition. Its the most fun i've had outside of my z. Last edited by black_sedan; 05-07-2014 at 11:33 AM.

05-07-2014, 12:11 PM	#3456 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29538	My G17L threw a casing right back at me, which bounced off the underside of my hat and lodged between the bridge of my nose and safety glasses. It took a major act of willpower to slowly put the pistol down and get it out. __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

05-07-2014, 09:00 AM	#3451 (permalink)
black_sedan Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 308 Drives: 14' F150, 14' Q50 Rep Power: 13	For $500 i would suggest the Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm, add the Apex Tactical 3.5# trigger and you'll have a very reliable shooter. I have probably put 5k rounds through mine without an issue. If its a carry gun, I would leave the trigger at stock weight. In your price range, you cant go wrong with the M&P, Glock or Springfield XD/XDM, its just preference.

05-07-2014, 11:17 PM	#3459 (permalink)
Tweek Base Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Sweden Posts: 16 Drives: Not a Z :( Rep Power: 11	Never had any issues with Sig either. My P226 Tacops is around 3 years old, and the only malfunction I've had with it was a single failure to feed when trying out my own "subsonic" handloads. EDIT: Specifically the Tacops does indeed have issues in general. But that has to do with the not Mec-Gar made magazines, and not Sig itself per se.