GTM Turn key or tuner kit... difference?

GUTCH · 04-02-2012, 11:46 AM

For people who live outside of the USA, is there more risk going with the turn key. Are they better off and safer using the tuner version?

Baer383 · 04-02-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUTCH

For people who live outside of the USA, is there more risk going with the turn key. Are they better off and safer using the tuner version?

What's the risk?

XwChriswX · 04-02-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUTCH

For people who live outside of the USA, is there more risk going with the turn key. Are they better off and safer using the tuner version?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

What's the risk?

I think he's got Tuner and Turn Key mixed up. Right?

mikey1600 · 04-02-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwChriswX

I think he's got Tuner and Turn Key mixed up. Right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

What's the risk?

I think he might mean because of climate/elevation changes the tune may not be good to run and need to get it re-tuned anyway? I had thought about this as well, but was going to get a custom tune done if I went this route anyway, happy to use the base map to get me to a tuner though

Mike@GTM · 04-03-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baer383

What's the risk?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey1600

I think he might mean because of climate/elevation changes the tune may not be good to run and need to get it re-tuned anyway? I had thought about this as well, but was going to get a custom tune done if I went this route anyway, happy to use the base map to get me to a tuner though

Risk? Well, considering that there are few tuners that even come close to Sam's abilities with respect to forced induction systems on this platform, you are taking a huge risk by going with a Tuner Kit instead of our Turn-key Kit.

See, what most people don't realize is that Sam writes each tune specifically for the car the tune is for and he also considers the environment the car will be driven in. These aren't "canned tunes".

I'm not just saying this to sell more Turn-Key kits, I'm saying it because ultimately, it's in your best interest to protect your investment with a tune that will work extremely well out of the box.

Coming from the Subaru world, I cannot tell you how many times I've seen people drop copious amounts of money on powertrain mods only to cheap out on the most critical part: the Tune. Then they cry and complain about why their piston rings are fried and/or ringlands are broken due to all the detonation they've been unwittingly subjecting their engine to.

Another thing to keep in mind is that all of our kits use the factory MAF sensors in a blow-through configuration so that the ECU knows exactly what the temperature and density of the air entering the engine is. The beauty of that, is the fact that the factory ECU is capable of automatically self adjusting and learning based on whatever atmospheric conditions the car encounters.

For example, if you buy a car at sea level and drive it up to high altitude, do you swing by the dealership to get a retune? No. Of course not...the ECU adjusts itself accordingly. As such, the same applies to our tunes as well.

One thing I will say, is that whenever we build a car here at our shop, one of the first things we do is put one of our base maps on it to verify that it works like it should...and not once have we had to make any adjustments. Can we make a little more power than one of our base maps? Sure, but that's where the question of safety and risk come in.

See, whenever you get a custom tune, the main objective is to optimize the car for maximum power. Generally, they don't make the tune safer. They advance the timing a couple degrees and voila, you make more power. The problem is that if the custom tune is too aggressive with the ignition timing, you will be relying heavily on the knock sensor to retard the timing in the event that the engine detonates. That is a risky strategy especially considering that we are talking about a motor that was originally naturally aspirated and now has forced induction. Detonation under boost is far more devastating than detonation at atmospheric pressures.

Barring any installation issues, you will not have a safer forced induction system than our Turn-Key Kit offers. Our Turn-Key Kits make great power and work flawlessly out of the box without compromising safety.

As far as the fuel system upgrades that come with our Turn-Key Kits, yes, you can do better but at greater expense. You will not be able to do better for less, however. If you don't believe me, I invite you to price out the appropriate upgrades yourself and do the math. You really cannot beat the value, safety, or repeatability of our Turn-Key Kits.

Every other turn-key kit on the market either doesn't work, compromises safety or doesn't even come close to making the advertised power. Why spend the extra money only to have to get a custom tune to get anywhere near where you were expecting to be?

If you want a low risk, sure fire, turn-key, bolt-on forced induction kit, our GTM Turn-Key Forced Induction Systems (supercharger and twin turbo) are the only kits on the market that honestly deliver.

Baer383 · 04-03-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Risk? Well, considering that there are few tuners that even come close to Sam's abilities with respect to forced induction systems on this platform, you are taking a huge risk by going with a Tuner Kit instead of our Turn-key Kit.

See, what most people don't realize is that Sam writes each tune specifically for the car the tune is for and he also considers the environment the car will be driven in. These aren't "canned tunes".

I'm not just saying this to sell more Turn-Key kits, I'm saying it because ultimately, it's in your best interest to protect your investment with a tune that will work extremely well out of the box.

Coming from the Subaru world, I cannot tell you how many times I've seen people drop copious amounts of money on powertrain mods only to cheap out on the most critical part: the Tune. Then they cry and complain about why their piston rings are fried and/or ringlands are broken due to all the detonation they've been unwittingly subjecting their engine to.

Another thing to keep in mind is that all of our kits use the factory MAF sensors in a blow-through configuration so that the ECU knows exactly what the temperature and density of the air entering the engine is. The beauty of that, is the fact that the factory ECU is capable of automatically self adjusting and learning based on whatever atmospheric conditions the car encounters.

For example, if you buy a car at sea level and drive it up to high altitude, do you swing by the dealership to get a retune? No. Of course not...the ECU adjusts itself accordingly. As such, the same applies to our tunes as well.

One thing I will say, is that whenever we build a car here at our shop, one of the first things we do is put one of our base maps on it to verify that it works like it should...and not once have we had to make any adjustments. Can we make a little more power than one of our base maps? Sure, but that's where the question of safety and risk come in.

See, whenever you get a custom tune, the main objective is to optimize the car for maximum power. Generally, they don't make the tune safer. They advance the timing a couple degrees and voila, you make more power. The problem is that if the custom tune is too aggressive with the ignition timing, you will be relying heavily on the knock sensor to retard the timing in the event that the engine detonates. That is a risky strategy especially considering that we are talking about a motor that was originally naturally aspirated and now has forced induction. Detonation under boost is far more devastating than detonation at atmospheric pressures.

Barring any installation issues, you will not have a safer forced induction system than our Turn-Key Kit offers. Our Turn-Key Kits make great power and work flawlessly out of the box without compromising safety.

As far as the fuel system upgrades that come with our Turn-Key Kits, yes, you can do better but at greater expense. You will not be able to do better for less, however. If you don't believe me, I invite you to price out the appropriate upgrades yourself and do the math. You really cannot beat the value, safety, or repeatability of our Turn-Key Kits.

Every other turn-key kit on the market either doesn't work, compromises safety or doesn't even come close to making the advertised power. Why spend the extra money only to have to get a custom tune to get anywhere near where you were expecting to be?

If you want a low risk, sure fire, turn-key, bolt-on forced induction kit, our GTM Turn-Key Forced Induction Systems (supercharger and twin turbo) are the only kits on the market that honestly deliver.

Well said Mike

Baer383 · 04-04-2012, 06:09 PM

Read this you actually may learn something "Reality"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Risk? Well, considering that there are few tuners that even come close to Sam's abilities with respect to forced induction systems on this platform, you are taking a huge risk by going with a Tuner Kit instead of our Turn-key Kit.

See, what most people don't realize is that Sam writes each tune specifically for the car the tune is for and he also considers the environment the car will be driven in. These aren't "canned tunes".

I'm not just saying this to sell more Turn-Key kits, I'm saying it because ultimately, it's in your best interest to protect your investment with a tune that will work extremely well out of the box.

Coming from the Subaru world, I cannot tell you how many times I've seen people drop copious amounts of money on powertrain mods only to cheap out on the most critical part: the Tune. Then they cry and complain about why their piston rings are fried and/or ringlands are broken due to all the detonation they've been unwittingly subjecting their engine to.

Another thing to keep in mind is that all of our kits use the factory MAF sensors in a blow-through configuration so that the ECU knows exactly what the temperature and density of the air entering the engine is. The beauty of that, is the fact that the factory ECU is capable of automatically self adjusting and learning based on whatever atmospheric conditions the car encounters.

For example, if you buy a car at sea level and drive it up to high altitude, do you swing by the dealership to get a retune? No. Of course not...the ECU adjusts itself accordingly. As such, the same applies to our tunes as well.

One thing I will say, is that whenever we build a car here at our shop, one of the first things we do is put one of our base maps on it to verify that it works like it should...and not once have we had to make any adjustments. Can we make a little more power than one of our base maps? Sure, but that's where the question of safety and risk come in.

See, whenever you get a custom tune, the main objective is to optimize the car for maximum power. Generally, they don't make the tune safer. They advance the timing a couple degrees and voila, you make more power. The problem is that if the custom tune is too aggressive with the ignition timing, you will be relying heavily on the knock sensor to retard the timing in the event that the engine detonates. That is a risky strategy especially considering that we are talking about a motor that was originally naturally aspirated and now has forced induction. Detonation under boost is far more devastating than detonation at atmospheric pressures.

Barring any installation issues, you will not have a safer forced induction system than our Turn-Key Kit offers. Our Turn-Key Kits make great power and work flawlessly out of the box without compromising safety.

As far as the fuel system upgrades that come with our Turn-Key Kits, yes, you can do better but at greater expense. You will not be able to do better for less, however. If you don't believe me, I invite you to price out the appropriate upgrades yourself and do the math. You really cannot beat the value, safety, or repeatability of our Turn-Key Kits.

Every other turn-key kit on the market either doesn't work, compromises safety or doesn't even come close to making the advertised power. Why spend the extra money only to have to get a custom tune to get anywhere near where you were expecting to be?

If you want a low risk, sure fire, turn-key, bolt-on forced induction kit, our GTM Turn-Key Forced Induction Systems (supercharger and twin turbo) are the only kits on the market that honestly deliver.

SharpByCoop · 04-03-2012, 05:57 AM

I started with the 'turn key' tune. It was extremely well-suited. My tuner actually wished for it to be richer than supplied after we tested it. Sam@GTM made these changes.

Getting the 'tuner' version (which we have and have modified) will take someone REALLY good to improve what GTM supplied. I would not summarily say all tuners are equal (or better!) than Sam's version.

I'm fortunate in this regard, but you may actually be taking a risk to assume the tuner version will be even better.

Coop

ShoFamous · 04-03-2012, 02:26 PM

I'm actually looking at the GTM turn key too if this GReddy deal falls through. What do you all think about the fuel system that comes with it tho? Could you really get something better for the same price or cheaper & have it still preform the same as the equipment they supply? Thanks for the information guys!

Ron · 04-03-2012, 11:22 PM

Amen!

Mkai0 · 04-04-2012, 03:43 AM

Word.

GUTCH · 04-04-2012, 10:29 AM

My question earlier simply related to factors such as climate, altitude, humidity, right hand drive and design rules that might not exist in the USA and whether or not a turn key kit would cater for them.

Reality · 04-04-2012, 01:18 PM

I am sure that most with FI experience will agree, that a canned tune is only good enough for you to get to your tuners garage...
-Getting a custom tune from a reputable tuner is always your best bet.

Baer383 · 04-04-2012, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reality

I am sure that most with FI experience will agree, that a canned tune is only good enough for you to get to your tuners garage...
-Getting a custom tune from a reputable tuner is always your best bet.

You obviously have not rode/driven in a car with Sam's tune.

DRFTSLT · 04-04-2012, 03:11 PM

Didn't he just get through saying that this isn't a canned tuned rather a tune that Sam customizes specifically for each car? If you needed any tweaks done to your car I'd be calling Sam, not someone unfamiliar with the tune.

04-03-2012, 05:57 AM	#8 (permalink)
SharpByCoop Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Connecticut Posts: 286 Drives: '08 G37S - Graphite Rep Power: 16	I started with the 'turn key' tune. It was extremely well-suited. My tuner actually wished for it to be richer than supplied after we tested it. Sam@GTM made these changes. Getting the 'tuner' version (which we have and have modified) will take someone REALLY good to improve what GTM supplied. I would not summarily say all tuners are equal (or better!) than Sam's version. I'm fortunate in this regard, but you may actually be taking a risk to assume the tuner version will be even better. Coop __________________ Jim Cooper - (Retired: '08 Infiniti G37 Sport • TheShopCT built • 11.13 @ 123 mph (click for vid) • GTM Stage II Twin Turbo • 5-speed A/T Level Ten built • 591whp @17 lbs boost)

04-03-2012, 02:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
ShoFamous Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 454 Drives: CarbonZeo Rep Power: 15	I'm actually looking at the GTM turn key too if this GReddy deal falls through. What do you all think about the fuel system that comes with it tho? Could you really get something better for the same price or cheaper & have it still preform the same as the equipment they supply? Thanks for the information guys! __________________ Current Rides: 2K8 Z71 Avalanche / 2K9 370Z / 2K8 Zx14 Previous Rides: 2K3 10th anniversary SVT Cobra convertible / 2K3 SVT Cobra / 2K5 RX-8 Carbon / 2K4 & 2K7 R1

04-03-2012, 11:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,009 Drives: TT '11 PW Nismo #113 Rep Power: 22	Amen! __________________ 2011 Twin Turbo PW nismo #113 - My Journal - My TT Build Thread [ GTM GTX Stg2 TT \|\| HKS EVC6 \|\| Custom CarPC \|\| F.I 3'' TDX CBE \|\| SB 6puck clutch/ZSpeed CSC \|\| BC BR Coilovers \|\| SPC camber arms \|\| Work VSS-X \|\| Custom Headlights \|\| PW:JDM CF Covers \|\| Seibon CF Engine Cover ]

04-04-2012, 03:43 AM	#11 (permalink)
Mkai0 Base Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Somewhere in Texas Posts: 209 Drives: 2008 G35 Sedan Rep Power: 15	Word. __________________ Eibach, Tanabe, Blitz, Vertini, GTM stage 1.5 SC, Aquamist, Invidia, Alto built 5AT, Edge Racing, Racelogic, GTM driveshaft, 440 whp in 101F TX heat..

04-04-2012, 01:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
Reality Enthusiast Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 290 Drives: '06 PPW GT Rep Power: 17	I am sure that most with FI experience will agree, that a canned tune is only good enough for you to get to your tuners garage... -Getting a custom tune from a reputable tuner is always your best bet. __________________ //2005 35th SB #81 [tyra] SOLD //2006 GT PPW SOLD

04-02-2012, 11:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
GUTCH Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 138 Drives: 2011 Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 16	For people who live outside of the USA, is there more risk going with the turn key. Are they better off and safer using the tuner version?

04-04-2012, 10:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
GUTCH Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 138 Drives: 2011 Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 16	My question earlier simply related to factors such as climate, altitude, humidity, right hand drive and design rules that might not exist in the USA and whether or not a turn key kit would cater for them.

04-04-2012, 03:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
DRFTSLT Base Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Washington Posts: 31 Drives: Impreza Rep Power: 14	Didn't he just get through saying that this isn't a canned tuned rather a tune that Sam customizes specifically for each car? If you needed any tweaks done to your car I'd be calling Sam, not someone unfamiliar with the tune.

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