GTM Supercharger Stage 1 w/ F.I. LTH

glory · 03-06-2012, 07:25 PM

Sorry to be reviving this old thread but I came across is it and I think I am missing something here.

My dilemma is here is why Dreamer is making less power with LTH's. I understand boost = back pressure so freeing up the exhaust (CBE +LTH) will lower the back pressure (and therefore the boost) and make it more efficient, but shouldn't he be making more power @8psi rather than less?

Quote:

Originally Posted by F.I. Inc.

...
Boost is back pressure. The stock exhaust is as restrictive as it gets. When you relieve back pressure in a force inducted application, you have a PSI drop off but you pick up torque and power.

Now it seems like this SC is capped @ 8 PSI. What that tells me is that no matter what you do to it, it cannot move enough volume to move more air than 8 PSI.
...

Now is it because the SC is capped @ 8psi that it can't achieve higher numbers or is it some VVEL thing holding it back?

Sorry, not trying to stir the pot just trying to wrap my head around this.

Thanks

Mike@GTM · 03-06-2012, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glory

Sorry to be reviving this old thread but I came across is it and I think I am missing something here.

My dilemma is here is why Dreamer is making less power with LTH's. I understand boost = back pressure so freeing up the exhaust (CBE +LTH) will lower the back pressure (and therefore the boost) and make it more efficient, but shouldn't he be making more power @8psi rather than less?

Now is it because the SC is capped @ 8psi that it can't achieve higher numbers or is it some VVEL thing holding it back?

Sorry, not trying to stir the pot just trying to wrap my head around this.

Thanks

The Supercharger Unit itself is not capped at 8psi...our Stage 1.5 Supercharger Kit proves that.

The Stage 1 Supercharger as it was originally designed, needs a little bit of back-pressure from the exhaust to keep the compressor in its efficiency range. Once the exhaust back pressure is reduced too much, the compressor loses efficiency and therefore, makes less power.

If you are looking for more power than the Stage 1, but still want good mid-range torque, then check out the Stage 1.5: GTM Performance Engineering: Stage 1 Supercharger Upgrade Kit 500whp capable

F.I. Inc. · 03-07-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glory

Sorry to be reviving this old thread but I came across is it and I think I am missing something here.

My dilemma is here is why Dreamer is making less power with LTH's. I understand boost = back pressure so freeing up the exhaust (CBE +LTH) will lower the back pressure (and therefore the boost) and make it more efficient, but shouldn't he be making more power @8psi rather than less?

Now is it because the SC is capped @ 8psi that it can't achieve higher numbers or is it some VVEL thing holding it back?

Sorry, not trying to stir the pot just trying to wrap my head around this.

Thanks

Mike@GTM answered this well!

There is nothing wrong with our headers or exhaust. In an N/A application they have big gains across the board...

I do not want to stir the pot as well but the stage I kit is inefficient! I am glad to see GTM finally is making a bigger more efficient kit that can support less back pressure.

I do not think that our headers will fit with the stage 1.5 kit though. I have not seen the kit first hand but I have been told that with the new design, there is no room for our headers!

Thanks, Tony

Mike@GTM · 03-07-2012, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F.I. Inc.

Mike@GTM answered this well!

There is nothing wrong with our headers or exhaust. In an N/A application they have big gains across the board...

I do not want to stir the pot as well but the stage I kit is inefficient! I am glad to see GTM finally is making a bigger more efficient kit that can support less back pressure.

I do not think that our headers will fit with the stage 1.5 kit though. I have not seen the kit first hand but I have been told that with the new design, there is no room for our headers!

Thanks, Tony

Mmmm...I wouldn't call the Stage 1 "inefficient". See, there's always a trade off, as you should know. Bigger is not always better.

In fact, there are a lot of subtleties involved with designing a forced induction system. It's not as simple as just tossing a turbo or supercharger on a motor and getting good results. There is an thread on here that exemplifies what can happen with that mentality.

The Stage 1 kit (much like a small turbo), has superb mid-range torque for a centrifugal supercharger. The Stage 1.5 (like a mid sized turbo), gets to full song a little later than the Stage 1, but still quicker than Stage 2 (like a large turbo).

Each one of our stages has its place depending on what the end user is doing with their car. No one stage is going to be the best for every circumstance. Flatly calling our Stage 1 inefficient just illustrates that not everyone fully understands how forced induction really works.

Nixlimited · 03-07-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

Mmmm...I wouldn't call the Stage 1 "inefficient". See, there's always a trade off, as you should know. Bigger is not always better.

In fact, there are a lot of subtleties involved with designing a forced induction system. It's not as simple as just tossing a turbo or supercharger on a motor and getting good results. There is an thread on here that exemplifies what can happen with that mentality.

The Stage 1 kit (much like a small turbo), has superb mid-range torque for a centrifugal supercharger. The Stage 1.5 (like a mid sized turbo), gets to full song a little later than the Stage 1, but still quicker than Stage 2 (like a large turbo).

Each one of our stages has its place depending on what the end user is doing with their car. No one stage is going to be the best for every circumstance. Flatly calling our Stage 1 inefficient just illustrates that not everyone fully understands how forced induction really works.

If it's the same compressor wheel with a different, more efficient, housing on the stage 1.5, why is it taking longer to come online?

Mike@GTM · 03-07-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

If it's the same compressor wheel with a different, more efficient, housing on the stage 1.5, why is it taking longer to come online?

It's a combination of pressure ratios and pulley size. Keep in mind that it is the same supercharger...all we're doing is shifting the pressure ratios.

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