STILLEN 370Z Supercharger System - Announcement!!!

370Zsteve · 03-24-2010, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN

I don't know if this first car will have much, if any, R&D benefit. I can't say too much right now but I will elaborate on this once the project is complete. I don't want to give any information before Nissan is able to. I do have plans for at least one more car though. The next car will have TREMENDOUS R&D value and will be pushed hard and far. I don't have confirmation that Nissan wants to do it yet as it won't be cheap, but it will be pretty insane!

We are trying very hard to carry over the same warranty that we had in the past. That warranty was pretty easy. As long as the supercharger kit was installed by an ASE certified mechanic, you're covered. Doesn't matter if it's your local high performance shop, dealership, or your uncle. As long as an ASE certified technician does the work, you're covered.

Disagree about the R&D benefit! Just having it running is R&D in my book.

Your warranty is amazing. Great Job, Stillen, +1 rep

RCZ · 03-22-2010, 05:17 PM

I hope it doesn't take away too much from the supercharger development....hopefully there aren't too many "delays" on the release of the other SC kits because Nissan needs the car so soon...

Kyle@STILLEN · 03-22-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

I hope it doesn't take away too much from the supercharger development....hopefully there aren't too many "delays" on the release of the other SC kits because Nissan needs the car so soon...

There wont be any delays because of this project. I stayed late last Wednesday and stripped the interior after hours so the shop didn't have to get distracted with it. Our head tech. is doing some of the simpler stuff today like exhaust, sway bars, oil coolers, and what not. Then next week it goes out to our fabrication shop for roll cage and racing seats. Then the following week it's off to paint for two weeks. We don't have enough time to complete this project for it to slow us down LOL!

Xan · 03-22-2010, 06:29 PM

To Stillen: I searched the thread but couldn't find it, are you using the V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim?

Edit: Reading through the thread I was kind of surprised with some people wanting "speed density" air measurement.
This is less accurate as your not measuring the actual air mass, but using a big lookup table and some sensor inputs to come up with an air mass estimate.

Additionally for the person asking about the MAF before the supercharger and the temperature difference. This doesn't affect the air mass, as the same air mass still flows passed the MAF, just at a lower temperature/higher density. If the MAF can deal with the higher flow, the measurement of the mass of the air is still correct. Where it does affect is that hot air can lead to knocking, however you can tune for this by not using too much ignition advancement. And the use of their air-to-water intercooler also reduces this as much as possible by cooling the air back down before it enters the cylinders.

stormcrow · 03-24-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xan

To Stillen: I searched the thread but couldn't find it, are you using the V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim?

Edit: Reading through the thread I was kind of surprised with some people wanting "speed density" air measurement.
This is less accurate as your not measuring the actual air mass, but using a big lookup table and some sensor inputs to come up with an air mass estimate.

Additionally for the person asking about the MAF before the supercharger and the temperature difference. This doesn't affect the air mass, as the same air mass still flows passed the MAF, just at a lower temperature/higher density. If the MAF can deal with the higher flow, the measurement of the mass of the air is still correct. Where it does affect is that hot air can lead to knocking, however you can tune for this by not using too much ignition advancement. And the use of their air-to-water intercooler also reduces this as much as possible by cooling the air back down before it enters the cylinders.

The point that you are missing is that even though you may be able to tune for the miscalculated intake air temps to quell knock, these are canned tunes at sea level and in different ambient temps. The ECU, in situations like this, need to be able to adjust for variables. Without knowing the exact temperature of the air from the MAF (measuring colder are due to 'draw through' that does not equate the hotter, compressed air going into the intake) the ECU cannot make the adjustments. This is why a "blow through' setup on a canned tune is a better option (though not close to perfect) than a canned tune on 'draw through'.

It's all well and good to have a custom tune on an OEM N/A car using 'draw through', but when it's a singular map shipped all over the world and in drastically different environments, not so much. This setup should come with a warning of recalibration is recommended. We've had this debate over on NAGTROC quite a bit when discussing "e-tunes." Even on an OEM F/I car that is calibrated for 'draw through', a one-size-fits-all approach to tuning is a bad idea.

Xan · 03-24-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormcrow

The point that you are missing is that even though you may be able to tune for the miscalculated intake air temps to quell knock, these are canned tunes at sea level and in different ambient temps. The ECU, in situations like this, need to be able to adjust for variables. Without knowing the exact temperature of the air from the MAF (measuring colder are due to 'draw through' that does not equate the hotter, compressed air going into the intake) the ECU cannot make the adjustments. This is why a "blow through' setup on a canned tune is a better option (though not close to perfect) than a canned tune on 'draw through'.

It's all well and good to have a custom tune on an OEM N/A car using 'draw through', but when it's a singular map shipped all over the world and in drastically different environments, not so much. This setup should come with a warning of recalibration is recommended. We've had this debate over on NAGTROC quite a bit when discussing "e-tunes." Even on an OEM F/I car that is calibrated for 'draw through', a one-size-fits-all approach to tuning is a bad idea.

Oh I definitely agree that it is much better to have engine custom tuned, I missed that that was the issue, I thought you were just worried about the MAF location.

But that aside what they probably do on a canned tune is run the engine hot and then make sure they tune for the save side (compensate for the real air temp, compared to the measured), you'll loose some power, but avoid ruining your engine. Additionally you've got a feedback loop from for instance the knock sensors which the ecu will use for self-learning and will use to compensate. Finally I don't know the algorithms that the Nissan ECU will use, but on top of the standard measures the car has VVEL, so it has some pretty powerful potential to compensate. Too bad this hasn't been cracked so they can make this custom as well, but I'm sure even the standard algorithms will assist here.

As Stillen is the one who actually does the canned tune, maybe they can comment on their approach. Maybe my above description is totally off, this would just be how I would do it.

Kyle@STILLEN · 03-24-2010, 06:51 PM

Nope...You're pretty much right on...

Don't get me wrong, just like a factory prepared car, if you can get a custom tune for your car then yes, you will be getting the most power possible. However, the tune that comes with our supercharger is no different than the tune that comes from Nissan. It is a pre set tune that will work perfectly fine for 99.9% of the owner's of these cars. If someone is building themselves a track car, then yes, they will want to pay a little extra to have a custom tune done specifically for their car. Each car/engine is a little different and every person adds their own exhaust, or exhaust and high flow cats, or long tube headers...the of possible variables goes on.

In order to achieve CARB legality we have to supply a locked tune. This is just like any O.E. car or aftermarket parts manufacturer. The tune must be pre-programmed and locked down. That tune is 100% safe and reliable for the car and will give great power and reliability. If someone wants to gain more power or custom tune for their other aftermarket parts combinations, they can do a custom tune on their own.

Xan · 03-24-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN

Nope...You're pretty much right on...

Don't get me wrong, just like a factory prepared car, if you can get a custom tune for your car then yes, you will be getting the most power possible. However, the tune that comes with our supercharger is no different than the tune that comes from Nissan. It is a pre set tune that will work perfectly fine for 99.9% of the owner's of these cars. If someone is building themselves a track car, then yes, they will want to pay a little extra to have a custom tune done specifically for their car. Each car/engine is a little different and every person adds their own exhaust, or exhaust and high flow cats, or long tube headers...the of possible variables goes on.

In order to achieve CARB legality we have to supply a locked tune. This is just like any O.E. car or aftermarket parts manufacturer. The tune must be pre-programmed and locked down. That tune is 100% safe and reliable for the car and will give great power and reliability. If someone wants to gain more power or custom tune for their other aftermarket parts combinations, they can do a custom tune on their own.

Seems like a pretty solid approach to me.

Could you also let me know which version you guys are using? (V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim)

stormcrow · 03-24-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle@STILLEN

Nope...You're pretty much right on...

Don't get me wrong, just like a factory prepared car, if you can get a custom tune for your car then yes, you will be getting the most power possible. However, the tune that comes with our supercharger is no different than the tune that comes from Nissan. It is a pre set tune that will work perfectly fine for 99.9% of the owner's of these cars. If someone is building themselves a track car, then yes, they will want to pay a little extra to have a custom tune done specifically for their car. Each car/engine is a little different and every person adds their own exhaust, or exhaust and high flow cats, or long tube headers...the of possible variables goes on.

In order to achieve CARB legality we have to supply a locked tune. This is just like any O.E. car or aftermarket parts manufacturer. The tune must be pre-programmed and locked down. That tune is 100% safe and reliable for the car and will give great power and reliability. If someone wants to gain more power or custom tune for their other aftermarket parts combinations, they can do a custom tune on their own.

That sentence really bothers me as this can't be further from the truth. No canned tune can be 100% safe, especially when force inducting a car that is normally aspirated from the factory. Even a custom tune for the car will never be 100% safe.

No offense, but any vendor who will say that their tune is 100% safe is basically lying.

Kyle@STILLEN · 03-29-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xan

To Stillen: I searched the thread but couldn't find it, are you using the V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim?

Edit: Reading through the thread I was kind of surprised with some people wanting "speed density" air measurement.
This is less accurate as your not measuring the actual air mass, but using a big lookup table and some sensor inputs to come up with an air mass estimate.

Additionally for the person asking about the MAF before the supercharger and the temperature difference. This doesn't affect the air mass, as the same air mass still flows passed the MAF, just at a lower temperature/higher density. If the MAF can deal with the higher flow, the measurement of the mass of the air is still correct. Where it does affect is that hot air can lead to knocking, however you can tune for this by not using too much ignition advancement. And the use of their air-to-water intercooler also reduces this as much as possible by cooling the air back down before it enters the cylinders.

Sorry for not answering you sooner. I thought I knew which trim we were using but I just wanted to double check and I was right. We're using the SCi-Trim.

RCZ · 03-24-2010, 09:01 AM

**Crickets**

m4a1mustang · 03-24-2010, 06:45 PM

I'd be interested to hear about their approach, too. Also wonder what kind of Stillen warranty implications there are if you do go out and have your car custom tuned.

My guess is that if you're going to spend around $8k on the supercharger kit, clutch/flywheel, and installation, you're not going to mind paying to have the car dyno tuned.

Kyle@STILLEN · 03-24-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I'd be interested to hear about their approach, too. Also wonder what kind of Stillen warranty implications there are if you do go out and have your car custom tuned.

My guess is that if you're going to spend around $8k on the supercharger kit, clutch/flywheel, and installation, you're not going to mind paying to have the car dyno tuned.

If the car is custom tuned then the warranty is 100% VOID. If someone wants to do a custom tuned supercharger setup then we highly recommend going with the tuner kit.

theDreamer · 03-24-2010, 09:58 PM

We are talking about a CARB legal tune here also.
This is not top PSI running unknown parts, many people will be running stock cats or HFC to keep legal which can easily be calculated for, same with exhaust. This tune will be very simple, designed for someone to DIY install this kit and plug-n-play a tune. It will not be the top performance tune, but it will what can legally be done for CARB approval.

jerkey · 03-24-2010, 10:33 PM

How long is this Intro pricing going to last? I return from deployment on the 2nd of April, and i have no way of buying until then. If this sale is gone in a week, im going to flip out.

03-22-2010, 06:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
Xan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: MA Posts:99999999999999 Posts: 3,301 Drives: 370Z 40th Aniversary Rep Power: 25	To Stillen: I searched the thread but couldn't find it, are you using the V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim? Edit: Reading through the thread I was kind of surprised with some people wanting "speed density" air measurement. This is less accurate as your not measuring the actual air mass, but using a big lookup table and some sensor inputs to come up with an air mass estimate. Additionally for the person asking about the MAF before the supercharger and the temperature difference. This doesn't affect the air mass, as the same air mass still flows passed the MAF, just at a lower temperature/higher density. If the MAF can deal with the higher flow, the measurement of the mass of the air is still correct. Where it does affect is that hot air can lead to knocking, however you can tune for this by not using too much ignition advancement. And the use of their air-to-water intercooler also reduces this as much as possible by cooling the air back down before it enters the cylinders. Last edited by Xan; 03-22-2010 at 09:06 PM. Reason: read the rest of the thread

03-24-2010, 06:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	I'd be interested to hear about their approach, too. Also wonder what kind of Stillen warranty implications there are if you do go out and have your car custom tuned. My guess is that if you're going to spend around $8k on the supercharger kit, clutch/flywheel, and installation, you're not going to mind paying to have the car dyno tuned. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

03-24-2010, 09:58 PM	#14 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4211	We are talking about a CARB legal tune here also. This is not top PSI running unknown parts, many people will be running stock cats or HFC to keep legal which can easily be calculated for, same with exhaust. This tune will be very simple, designed for someone to DIY install this kit and plug-n-play a tune. It will not be the top performance tune, but it will what can legally be done for CARB approval. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

03-24-2010, 10:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
jerkey Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 67 Drives: 09 370 Sprt Blck 6MT Rep Power: 17	How long is this Intro pricing going to last? I return from deployment on the 2nd of April, and i have no way of buying until then. If this sale is gone in a week, im going to flip out. __________________ '09 370z MB w/ SprtPckg 6MT \| FI CBE w/CF Cans\|FI HFC's\|Injen CAI\|All exterior parts blacked out

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03-22-2010, 05:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	I hope it doesn't take away too much from the supercharger development....hopefully there aren't too many "delays" on the release of the other SC kits because Nissan needs the car so soon...

03-24-2010, 06:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kyle@STILLEN The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Newport Beach Posts: 626 Drives: Toyota Tundra Rep Power: 307	Nope...You're pretty much right on... Don't get me wrong, just like a factory prepared car, if you can get a custom tune for your car then yes, you will be getting the most power possible. However, the tune that comes with our supercharger is no different than the tune that comes from Nissan. It is a pre set tune that will work perfectly fine for 99.9% of the owner's of these cars. If someone is building themselves a track car, then yes, they will want to pay a little extra to have a custom tune done specifically for their car. Each car/engine is a little different and every person adds their own exhaust, or exhaust and high flow cats, or long tube headers...the of possible variables goes on. In order to achieve CARB legality we have to supply a locked tune. This is just like any O.E. car or aftermarket parts manufacturer. The tune must be pre-programmed and locked down. That tune is 100% safe and reliable for the car and will give great power and reliability. If someone wants to gain more power or custom tune for their other aftermarket parts combinations, they can do a custom tune on their own.

03-24-2010, 09:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	Crickets