TSM makes 357RWHP NA on a Stock Longblock VQ37

synolimit

Me too. I want my tuner to copy it but if he isn't giving out porting secrets he sure as **** isn't going to give tuning!!

I did talk to my tuner the other day and I thought this was interesting...he tuned a older 370 and played with vvel and couldn't get anything after a hour he said. But then last week he did a 13 and got like 10hp. He asked me if I knew anything that changed in the ecu or something that attributed to it but I've never heard anything. Only thing I've seen is what Megan has showed with the nismo vs non and such.

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13 370z-

Jordo!

It took a while for my buddy who tuned my car to make significant gains -- we had a few logical hypotheses about where and what to change, but even then, there is still trial and error.

I think the TSM absolute values are a bit high (CF's of 1.03 - 1.05), but the overall proportionate change is awfully encouraging.

I can only imagine larger primaries, lots of porting, and maybe some pretty oval velocity stacks on the intakes are involved plus lots and lots of playing with VVEL.

In short: massage everything so it improves flow and then step-by-step experiment with VVEL to optimize valve timing.

The limits of space under the hood can be worked around to some extent -- on my old Celica we had to chop out a bit of the hood frame to make a little extra room for an intercooler core -- but we still aren't really clear on what exactly was done on the test car, at least last I checked.

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Enjoy it. Destroy it.

synolimit

Correct me if I'm wrong but correction factor is automatic and only has to do with correcting back to the target temp and humidity etc. In SAE the dyno pretends its really like 77 degrees I believe. If its 85 in the dyno room it's just calculating back to 77 which is why uncorrected is always lowest since it's the true number and was a hotter run calculation. Unless of course its 30 degrees in the dyno room, then uncorrected should be higher than SAE since it will drop power since at 77 a car should make less power than at 30. In std the target is like 66 degrees which is why it always reads higher, a cooler day would produce more power. If 100% is 77 degrees then the 0.05% you're seeing is just getting the uncorrected number back to what it would be IF it was 77 and perfect conditions in the dyno room. I believe this is why dynojets are so accurate when someone in the desert gets 300hp SAE and someone in Florida or high in the mountains also gets 300hp with same mods. It's because the targets the same. Only uncorrected would show who's city is best, but it shows with two people showed up same day same track they'd be 100% equal.

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13 370z-

synolimit

Interesting stuff. To see most accurate dyno setting do you have a favorite drag racing calculator? Last time I went near stock I was 106.5mph trap. Weight with me I wanna say with 1/4 tank should have been 3342lbs. That on the dyno was 280. A calculator I found said I should have 274.

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13 370z-

Jordo!

Sorry for the uber-long rambly discussion in the last post...

I like the idea of drag racing (real or calculated) as the most meaningful measure of real power, but a lot of other factors come into play like wheelspin, conditions of the track, the driver, along with all the usual suspects, such as ambient conditions, so I usually take that with a pinch of salt, and just go by averaged recorded performance that people at the track report (taking into account their mods and trans).

That said, the values usually converge with dynojet readings, give or take 5-10 whp, so its just additional evidence that points to overall engine output at WOT.

I'll admit to also being a sucker for magazine recorded 0-60 (or, really 0-100 kmh) runs, as well as Top Gear test track laps and the like (see further http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/n...ota_ft-86.html ). As I said, more data is usually preferable to less, so I like to have more info to go by when trying to figure these things out and meaningfully interpret them.

I think what I would advise anyone to do is that if they want to take the time, look up NWS data (e.g., temp, dew point, etc) for the day and time the car was run on the dyno along with the elevation based on location (easily googled) and then plug into the calculators at that wahhidudin cite and apply the derived CF to the uncorrected dynojet values. Then you can compare and contrast with the dynojet SAE values that were obtained.

Interestingly, checking on some my last ones, the dynojet applied pressure and humidity readings were way off as compared to actual weather, so I would have had a more or less generous correction on a few of them (and the typical dynoshop is hardly a sealed dyno cell...)

Looking at the TSM data, and assuming the car was run within a day or two prior to the posting, I got a 1.03 correction plugging in all the data.

I think that means the uncorrected would have been about 330, and an SAE of 340 is about right -- remarkable, and reasonable to be a little skeptical of without further verification given how high a value that is -- but legitimate and defensible from a measurement standpoint, at least based on what we were given.

So, yeah -- TSM, build some stuff, show more dynos to verify the claimed merits, and price it to sell!

Other important take away: Dynojets always use the same yardstick -- a huge source of variance on load holding dynos -- every time. Only the correction factor and actual weather conditions need to be checked/taken into consideration when drawing conclusions. For non-inertia type dynos, its going to to be much, much harder to compare and contrast across shops, units, etc.

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Enjoy it. Destroy it.

synolimit

What dyno?

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13 370z-

speedfreek

Z1's dyno.

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speedfreek

I think a lot of it comes down to some of your expectations. All of the parts on this car in particular can be bought and installed on your own. Then it is up to your tuner to get all the power out of them. Some of that comes with tricks that particular tuner has learned on the platform. No one is going to give out their own secrets. That would be bad business practice as then there would be no reason for anyone to have to go to them to get what only they know.

There are some good tuners scattered across the US. I am not going to ship my car to California for instance in order to get knowledge from a tuner out there that may have made further gains on the platform. It would be bad for me and other Central/East coast Z owners. But it would be great for all the West coast Z owners.

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synolimit

We don't all live in GA though. We need tuners and dyno's up here too.

This is what I hate about the Z community. The subi community had many hands in developing rom raider and still do to define definitions for FREE. We used the free open source tuning software and could get help from anywhere. All you needed was a $150 cable or borrow one.

Even free MANY MANY MANY!! People still go to tuners since they can't do it themselves or would even dream of trying. Uprev sucks making you pay $150-180 just to crack the ecu and since 90% of the population doesn't live in GA just share with people! If you don't have shitty customer service you shouldn't be worried about other tuners stealing your ****. People will still want to come to you for a pro tune on their car. Yes you may lose out of town business but unless you pay them $100 in gas to come to you, why be a hater when guys just want to save money? Be happy for them that they run your tune or the knowledge you gave their tuner. We are all here to enjoy the same thing and I doubt you'll see a income drop if you told your secrets. Locals will still pay and you can freely keep rapping GTR customers for $1000 plus tunes and $5000 CBE since their metal and bends must be so much better than ours for that price.

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13 370z-

bacalhau16

More info please. A lot of it. So much to learn. So much we must know!!

evensen007

So..... Nothing to report after a bunch of ambiguous numbers and excitement?

fairlady_z34

very interesting. would dif. like more info

mag_black

He hasn't logged on since the 29th.

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edub370

well.. i guess we can all just imagine what mods and the dyno graph looked like...

i imagine the dyno graph was white with a blue squigly line.... maybe red..

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Optimiser

I think 361HP at rear wheels NA is total BS. So there I said it.