Everyone with oil temp issues

Trips · 07-16-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDZRVIT

Hey, we're half way to 100 pages of what amounts to this:
"If you are going to track your car get an oil cooler. If not, go out and enjoy the 370Z experience."

Robert_Nash · 07-17-2009, 10:53 AM

as well.

Regardless of the various opinions/experiences/conclusions; there really isn't much more that can be said on this topic that I can see.

ADmaster71690 · 07-17-2009, 12:39 PM

We also have two other oil issue threads - "So any updates on the oil overheating problem?" and "different take on oil overheating issue" that discuss the same thing, and are growing in length!

I think we should just lock these topics and nominate a moderator for the oil issue... if someone has a really worthwhile piece of information or update from Nissan, they have to PM the mod and get it approved before posting.

Modshack · 07-17-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADmaster71690

We also have two other oil issue threads - "So any updates on the oil overheating problem?" and "different take on oil overheating issue" that discuss the same thing, and are growing in length!

I think we should just lock these topics and nominate a moderator for the oil issue... if someone has a really worthwhile piece of information or update from Nissan, they have to PM the mod and get it approved before posting.

But watching the irrational speculation and panic is so much fun!

This is a non-issue that has been spun into something much more than it is.

bluzman · 07-17-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

But watching the irrational speculation and panic is so much fun!

This is a non-issue that has been spun into something much more than it is.

Robert_Nash · 07-17-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADmaster71690

We also have two other oil issue threads - "So any updates on the oil overheating problem?" and "different take on oil overheating issue" that discuss the same thing, and are growing in length!

I think we should just lock these topics and nominate a moderator for the oil issue... if someone has a really worthwhile piece of information or update from Nissan, they have to PM the mod and get it approved before posting.

We probably also need to do the same with the "auto vs manual" transmission threads...I just learned that I got a 7AT because I'm not "enough" of an enthusiast to get the MT.

TheWeatherman · 07-17-2009, 01:14 PM

As long as the engine can handle it, oil temperatures in the 200's sure can. Read this. Learn it. An oil's flash point is what we'd be worried about. Guess what... Not even close. TO BED WITH THIS ALREADY!

Motor Oil Breakdown What really Causes It? : Motor Oil

IDZRVIT · 07-17-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWeatherman

As long as the engine can handle it, oil temperatures in the 200's sure can. Read this. Learn it. An oil's flash point is what we'd be worried about. Guess what... Not even close. TO BED WITH THIS ALREADY!

Motor Oil Breakdown What really Causes It? : Motor Oil

Holy shite, the Nissan engineers may be onto something and now the cat is out of the bag!!!!!

wstar · 07-17-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWeatherman

As long as the engine can handle it, oil temperatures in the 200's sure can. Read this. Learn it. An oil's flash point is what we'd be worried about. Guess what... Not even close. TO BED WITH THIS ALREADY!

Motor Oil Breakdown What really Causes It? : Motor Oil

I'm sorry, but that's faulty logic. The flashpoint on my first change of Nissan Ester 5W30, when it came out of the engine, was testing at 390F. Are you saying that if my oil temps were peaking at 350 I'd have nothing to worry about?

TheWeatherman · 07-17-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I'm sorry, but that's faulty logic. The flashpoint on my first change of Nissan Ester 5W30, when it came out of the engine, was testing at 390F. Are you saying that if my oil temps were peaking at 350 I'd have nothing to worry about?

Are your temps peaking at that? Track=Cooler. Roads=Just Fine. Someone lock this thread already.

Oh, I noticed all of those 350Z on my way home broken down due to too many miles on the engine combined with warm oil. Semtex, I think you know the answer to all of this. What I just said above. Put on the cooler and get on with it.

You know, it's funny. I was at a Z meet, and this person with the only other 370 sat and bitched about his oil getting too hot. I said, "Are you having any problems yet?" He said, "No." I said, "Are you tracking your car?" He said, "I might." I said, "You bring it on the track, put on a cooler and stop bitching." You all have plenty of options. Use them. I repeat now for you Semtex, Track=Cooler.

The Midwest's quality control engineer said, "This engine is built to handle all oil temperatures right up to the limp limiter." He was involved in the 370Z's testing and traveled the world to make sure this thing was ready for the road. I have his cell number and he has mine. This is right from Nissan. Why would he make this up? He worked with the Japanese, and knew exactly what the engine can handle. He said the engine is just as reliable and you will have no oil-related problems if you keep the oil from prolonged stints over 300 on the guage. What more do we need? The other person on this board who talked to this guy is Spearfish. He gets it too. What more do you want? Track and cooler. He said that. The engineer also said any car that's taken on a racetrack for prolonged periods have to be prepped for racing. He happens to race a Porsche. He needed an aux. oil cooler but tries to keep is track temps from 240-260. Hmmm, an engineer. Those temps. He said I could meet him at the track by me and he'll show me. Come on, is this enough?

semtex · 07-17-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWeatherman

Are your temps peaking at that? Track=Cooler. Roads=Just Fine. Someone lock this thread already.

Oh, I noticed all of those 350Z on my way home broken down due to too many miles on the engine combined with warm oil. Semtex, I think you know the answer to all of this. What I just said above. Put on the cooler and get on with it.

You don't need to track this car to hit 260 degrees. That's the problem with your little Track=Cooler Roads=Just Fine dichotomy. If you never hit 260 on regular roads, more power to you, and congrats on saving ~$400 on an oil cooler kit. But there are some who do hit 260 on regular roads.

Robert_Nash · 07-17-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I'm sorry, but that's faulty logic. The flashpoint on my first change of Nissan Ester 5W30, when it came out of the engine, was testing at 390F. Are you saying that if my oil temps were peaking at 350 I'd have nothing to worry about?

I don't think that's what is being implied. This is what I've gathered from all this discussion and looking into it myslef...

From sources I've read and people I've talked with (and there has been quite a variety at this point), the flashpoint of an oil is a measure of how readily the oil actually breaks down from heat...the higher the flashpoint the more heat the oil can take before it starts to breakdown (Synthetics have a higher and in some cases a much, much higher flashpoint than non-synthetics).

All oils break down and heat is a major factor in that but the higher the flashpoint, the longer the oil life and the higher the temperatures it can tollerate before it breaks down. Or another way you can look at is that flashpoint indicates how long the oil can do the job of protecting the engine before it becomes unable to do so and the higher the heat; the more frequently you should change your oil.

However, it is also true that the viscosity of the oil changes (thins) as oil increases in temperature so, all other things being equal (and they rarely ever are); the higher your engine oil temperature is, the less "protection" the oiled engine parts have because the viscosity gives a thinner and thinner layer of protection as the heat increases. This would be different from how long the oil can do its job but rather how well it can do its job at any given temperature.

What I've yet to see anybody translate is how much or how little all this actually affects the life of an engine. If the 3.7 engine oil consistently runs at 240 degrees; how much sooner, on average will the engine fail than if it was consistently running at 220 or 200 or 180?

I think we can all agree that, 180 or 200 is "better" for engine life than 240 but that doesn't tell us how much better...at the consistent 220 mark, will the engine die at 210,000 miles instead of 220,000 or will it die at 155,000 instead of 220,000?

The bearings may well break down and fail "sooner" with high temps than not but how soon and will anyone own their 370 long enough to even find out??? I don't know the answer; if anyone actually does they should speak up!!!

Modshack · 07-17-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

I think we can all agree that, 180 or 200 is "better" for engine life than 240 but that doesn't tell us how much better...at the consistent 220 mark, will the engine die at 210,000 miles instead of 220,000 or will it die at 155,000 instead of 220,000?

The bearings may well break down and fail "sooner" with high temps than not but how soon and will anyone own their 370 long enough to even find out??? I don't know the answer; if anyone actually does they should speak up!!!

And chances are 98% of the folks here will not own these cars when they achieve those miles...

semtex · 07-17-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

I don't think that's what is being implied. This is what I've gathered from all this discussion and looking into it myslef...

From sources I've read and people I've talked with (and there has been quite a variety at this point), the flashpoint of an oil is a measure of how readily the oil actually breaks down from heat...the higher the flashpoint the more heat the oil can take before it starts to breakdown (Synthetics have a higher and in some cases a much, much higher flashpoint than non-synthetics).

All oils break down and heat is a major factor in that but the higher the flashpoint, the longer the oil life and the higher the temperatures it can tollerate before it breaks down. Or another way you can look at is that flashpoint indicates how long the oil can do the job of protecting the engine before it becomes unable to do so and the higher the heat; the more frequently you should change your oil.

However, it is also true that the viscosity of the oil changes (thins) as oil increases in temperature so, all other things being equal (and they rarely ever are); the higher your engine oil temperature is, the less "protection" the oiled engine parts have because the viscosity gives a thinner and thinner layer of protection as the heat increases. This would be different from how long the oil can do its job but rather how well it can do its job at any given temperature.

What I've yet to see anybody translate is how much or how little all this actually affects the life of an engine. If the 3.7 engine oil consistently runs at 240 degrees; how much sooner, on average will the engine fail than if it was consistently running at 220 or 200 or 180?

I think we can all agree that, 180 or 200 is "better" for engine life than 240 but that doesn't tell us how much better...at the consistent 220 mark, will the engine die at 210,000 miles instead of 220,000 or will it die at 155,000 instead of 220,000?

I don't know the answer to that and I doubt anyone else here does either (or if they do they should speak up!!!

)

That's a good point, Robert. We have no hard mileage numbers. I just don't like the idea of soft engine bearings with deteriorating load-bearing capacity is all. It doesn't sit well with me. Might be much ado about nothing though. At this point, my decision to install an oil cooler is more for peace of mind than anything else.

TheWeatherman · 07-17-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

I don't think that's what is being implied. This is what I've gathered from all this discussion and looking into it myslef...

From sources I've read and people I've talked with (and there has been quite a variety at this point), the flashpoint of an oil is a measure of how readily the oil actually breaks down from heat...the higher the flashpoint the more heat the oil can take before it starts to breakdown (Synthetics have a higher and in some cases a much, much higher flashpoint than non-synthetics).

All oils break down and heat is a major factor in that but the higher the flashpoint, the longer the oil life and the higher the temperatures it can tollerate before it breaks down. Or another way you can look at is that flashpoint indicates how long the oil can do the job of protecting the engine before it becomes unable to do so and the higher the heat; the more frequently you should change your oil.

However, it is also true that the viscosity of the oil changes (thins) as oil increases in temperature so, all other things being equal (and they rarely ever are); the higher your engine oil temperature is, the less "protection" the oiled engine parts have because the viscosity gives a thinner and thinner layer of protection as the heat increases. This would be different from how long the oil can do its job but rather how well it can do its job at any given temperature.

What I've yet to see anybody translate is how much or how little all this actually affects the life of an engine. If the 3.7 engine oil consistently runs at 240 degrees; how much sooner, on average will the engine fail than if it was consistently running at 220 or 200 or 180?

I think we can all agree that, 180 or 200 is "better" for engine life than 240 but that doesn't tell us how much better...at the consistent 220 mark, will the engine die at 210,000 miles instead of 220,000 or will it die at 155,000 instead of 220,000?

The bearings may well break down and fail "sooner" with high temps than not but how soon and will anyone own their 370 long enough to even find out??? I don't know the answer; if anyone actually does they should speak up!!!

Ahhh, Robert. As the oil turns... I keep trying to stay out of this, and someone always has to bring it back up. I practice all the self-control I can, but just get to the point of people not reading the old posts. I made a quick recap in my post above. Someone in another post said it best. "By the time this would even be an issue, if it even is an issue, you'd be along to your 3rd vehicle already." Mine would probably need every other part replaced before any of the motor's parts would die.

Here's another statement... So you have the "eco-friendly" bearing. So why wouldn't the limp mode be at 255? Ufff.

07-17-2009, 10:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 18	as well. Regardless of the various opinions/experiences/conclusions; there really isn't much more that can be said on this topic that I can see. __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

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07-17-2009, 12:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
ADmaster71690 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 79 Drives: 2003 Saab 9-3 Rep Power: 262	We also have two other oil issue threads - "So any updates on the oil overheating problem?" and "different take on oil overheating issue" that discuss the same thing, and are growing in length! I think we should just lock these topics and nominate a moderator for the oil issue... if someone has a really worthwhile piece of information or update from Nissan, they have to PM the mod and get it approved before posting.

07-17-2009, 01:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
TheWeatherman Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 265 Drives: 2009 370Z 6MTw/Sport Rep Power: 17	As long as the engine can handle it, oil temperatures in the 200's sure can. Read this. Learn it. An oil's flash point is what we'd be worried about. Guess what... Not even close. TO BED WITH THIS ALREADY! Motor Oil Breakdown What really Causes It? : Motor Oil