Oil Cooler hose exploded

TARDCORE · 02-09-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbonesteak

haha this thread makes me want to bust out the facepalm in more than few ways.

why? Nothing happened to the Z except it got a bath in oil, GTM is sending me new hoses, demonstrating their great service even though they are not sure of the cause. Id say its more a of a

moment. I will be sending them the hose that became disconnected and hopefully they can shed some light by their analysis. I can't tell from the looks of the AN fitting and the hose so hopefully they can. And if they do determine it was my fault, I'll pay them for the new hoses they sent me because at this point; I really don't care about the money I put into the Z and I really want to move on. I sure it wont be that easy though since I still need to figure out what to about the oil lol

1slow370 · 02-10-2010, 03:50 AM

Well if you don't care just drop 10 stacks on her go F/i and laugh at the vette dealership as you drive past. Then take her to a strip and lay some c6 smackdown. The car has the handling, looks, and features you just need the power next.

m4a1mustang · 02-10-2010, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Well if you don't care just drop 10 stacks on her go F/i and laugh at the vette dealership as you drive past. Then take her to a strip and lay some c6 smackdown. The car has the handling, looks, and features you just need the power next.

10k won't be enough for a proper FI setup. If you're goal is to "laugh" at Vettes, all it takes is one cammed C6 for you to realize you wasted your money.

tbonesteak · 02-10-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

10k won't be enough for a proper FI setup. If you're goal is to "laugh" at Vettes, all it takes is one cammed C6 for you to realize you wasted your money.

Were you planning on getting a Z06 or just a base c6? A base c6 will need some work to get up to 550whp as a boosted z34 will. Z06 on the other hand......

vipor · 02-10-2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Well if you don't care just drop 10 stacks on her go F/i and laugh at the vette dealership as you drive past. Then take her to a strip and lay some c6 smackdown. The car has the handling, looks, and features you just need the power next.

I was able to pass Vettes at the track this weekend. I was never passed by one either. Granted it was the Green group, but still. Same skill level (I was probably behind, first time at a track) and a lot less car (supposedly). Yeah they were faster in the straight by a little, but I could hold a better line and turn tighter.

m4a1mustang · 02-10-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipor

I was able to pass Vettes at the track this weekend. I was never passed by one either. Granted it was the Green group, but still. Same skill level (I was probably behind, first time at a track) and a lot less car (supposedly). Yeah they were faster in the straight by a little, but I could hold a better line and turn tighter.

That's probably more a factor of you being a little more daring than them.

I could pass a 911 turbo riding my bicycle in an HPDE if the driver is a total nanny.

spearfish25 · 03-07-2010, 09:17 PM

Just to throw this out there. The service manual lists some ballpark oil pressures. Wonder what the pressure is when at really high RPMs...

Idle >14psi
2,000 RPM >43psi

Modshack · 03-07-2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Just to throw this out there. The service manual lists some ballpark oil pressures. Wonder what the pressure is when at really high RPMs...

Idle >14psi
2,000 RPM >43psi

I don't think pressure is an issue here. Both Types of hoses, socketed and socketless are rated at 250 PSI or more.

On a cold engine you may see 70-80 PSI, when warmed typical pressures at speed rarely exceed 60 PSI on most cars.

I've posted my theory in the Modshack Ol Cooler DIY...

kannibul · 03-10-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

Just to throw this out there. The service manual lists some ballpark oil pressures. Wonder what the pressure is when at really high RPMs...

Idle >14psi
2,000 RPM >43psi

That helps understand the oil burning issue. Imagine what the valve stem seals are seeing...

Modshack · 03-10-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

That helps understand the oil burning issue. Imagine what the valve stem seals are seeing...

Err......Valve stem seals don't see ANY oil pressure... Just the cam bearings, then the oil drains to the sump.

kannibul · 03-10-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

Err......Valve stem seals don't see ANY oil pressure... Just the cam bearings, then the oil drains to the sump.

Isn't the oil under the valve cover under pressure? Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm under the impression that everything under swimming in oil, under pressure...

Not "crankshaft bearing" levels of pressure, but under pressure none-the-less.

Modshack · 03-10-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannibul

Isn't the oil under the valve cover under pressure? Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm under the impression that everything under swimming in oil, under pressure...

Not "crankshaft bearing" levels of pressure, but under pressure none-the-less.

Nope...Oil is Just pumped up to the the bearing journals just like the crank journals really (except for the oil that gets spewed across the garage to keep this on topic), it squirts out, gets flung around a bit and then drains back to the sump. Pop off your oil fill cap while the car is running and take a look....

abakja1 · 03-08-2010, 03:07 AM

Hoses coming off socketless fittings, lines bursting on crimped fittings,..

Starting to wonder if a blown engine is worth it as well as all the worrying just to keep oil temps down. Im changing my oil without installing an oil cooler till more info gets posted. I already have my RacerParts kit and was going to install this morning until I read about the socketless problems for a refresher this morning. A few hours ago I ordered crimped hoses from Mike and will wait for them. And just now I read about crimped hoses coming off, albeit from a vendor, but I hate to have reliability problems as well as have to worry about the lines all the time and contemplating doing this at all...

I mean, how do you test a crimped fitting without stressing the fitting itself "before" putting on your car as wouldn't this weaken a strong crimp in the first place?

Modshack · 03-08-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abakja1

I hate to have reliability problems as well as have to worry about the lines all the time and contemplating doing this at all...

The variable appears to be the install. Since many people succesfully run any and all of the hose combinations (My socketless set-up has been fine for 3500 miles), It pretty much boils down to install variances. My observations on this:

Quote:

Hose Blow-off analysis

What we know:

1) Both Socketless and Braided hoses have separated in 3 reported instances.
Not sure if Travis's was hose related, so that could be 4

2) Neither of those hose types and attachment styles have regularly reported failure rates.

3) Both hose/end styles are rated well above the expected temps and pressures

What we don't know:

1) install specifics/variables.

One of the comments from the Jack above stuck in my mind: The hose needs significant slack.. Both Cab and Mike report they had slack in their installs. I have no reason to doubt that. One thing not taken into consideration is the Torquing of the motor on it's mounts. Under acceleration and compression braking, the motor could be moving around the axis of the mounts by as much as an inch. Certainly in Mike's case, under track conditions, this could be even more. As the motor rocks on it's mounts, alternate stretch and compression forces are applied to the fitting. I suspect enough of these cycles, with a tad too little slack, and the barbs wore through the inner hose liner. At that point the structural integrity of the hose was gone and it blew off. But I had enough slack you say...Alternate theory #2: The hose, as laid out, passes under the sway bar. Lottsa clearance when up on a lift, not so much when on the ground. Compound that with a lowered car (CAB, not sure of your suspension) and you may have the sway bar working and flexing on the hose close to the fitting. This may potentially cause a similar failure by compromising the inner liner. Be sure the hoses are routed to cross under the swaybar close to the pivot point to minimize this. I'll put some cautions up on page one. I'd also recommend, on new builds, extending the hose lengths by 1" as Mike did after his incident. (My dimensions quoted BTW are cut end to cut end and DO NOT include the fitting.). It is always best to actually make up the hose lengths by fitting to the particular install before final socketless (or other) end assembly. A little too short and you run the risk of hose failure because of the above.

travisjb · 03-08-2010, 11:26 AM

I was not able to confirm whether my issue was due to hose failure or installation failure, so that's going to remain a mystery...

as for abakja, the data we've collected suggests that AT cars have much less problem with overheating, so unless you are experiencing problems, I would hold off... ie are you regularly seeing temps above 280F? 260F? (EDIT: 2nd though, don't answer this here! we already have enough oil overheating threads, lol!)

03-08-2010, 03:07 AM	#13 (permalink)
abakja1 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Hawaii Posts: 351 Drives: STI, MDX, Titan Rep Power: 305	Hoses coming off socketless fittings, lines bursting on crimped fittings,.. Starting to wonder if a blown engine is worth it as well as all the worrying just to keep oil temps down. Im changing my oil without installing an oil cooler till more info gets posted. I already have my RacerParts kit and was going to install this morning until I read about the socketless problems for a refresher this morning. A few hours ago I ordered crimped hoses from Mike and will wait for them. And just now I read about crimped hoses coming off, albeit from a vendor, but I hate to have reliability problems as well as have to worry about the lines all the time and contemplating doing this at all... I mean, how do you test a crimped fitting without stressing the fitting itself "before" putting on your car as wouldn't this weaken a strong crimp in the first place? Last edited by abakja1; 03-08-2010 at 03:10 AM.

03-08-2010, 11:26 AM	#15 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 189	I was not able to confirm whether my issue was due to hose failure or installation failure, so that's going to remain a mystery... as for abakja, the data we've collected suggests that AT cars have much less problem with overheating, so unless you are experiencing problems, I would hold off... ie are you regularly seeing temps above 280F? 260F? (EDIT: 2nd though, don't answer this here! we already have enough oil overheating threads, lol!) __________________ 2009 370Z #104 For Sale Last edited by travisjb; 03-08-2010 at 10:37 PM.

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02-10-2010, 03:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Well if you don't care just drop 10 stacks on her go F/i and laugh at the vette dealership as you drive past. Then take her to a strip and lay some c6 smackdown. The car has the handling, looks, and features you just need the power next.