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VHR Billet Block

Looking to do a build and was wondering if anyone has or knows of anyone with a billet block for our cars? I see that GTM was experimenting with it

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Old 05-05-2015, 10:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default VHR Billet Block

Looking to do a build and was wondering if anyone has or knows of anyone with a billet block for our cars? I see that GTM was experimenting with it (not sure if they are still around or what their status is). But just wondering if there is anything else out there? Been told that by a reputable shop that our block doesnt like to push high hp numbers for any real period of time.

Basically looking to do this in such a way to ensure maximum reliability with the most amount of power and it seems like a new block is the best way to do this.


Thanks



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Old 05-05-2015, 01:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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No one has built one from my knowledge. It would be very expensive as well.... And coming from me that says ALOT! lol
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Old 05-05-2015, 03:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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No one has built one from my knowledge. It would be very expensive as well.... And coming from me that says ALOT! lol
How many miles you got on your build? Looking to do something similar but I want to do everything I can to safely hold the power as it seems like from what I heard our blocks really start to stress out over 700hp. Just looking for ways around that (if any).
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Old 05-05-2015, 03:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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A billet block is a pretty serious ordeal.. if you purchased one, you would be doing all the testing too - so you might find a host of unpleasant surprises along the way. Most the GT-Rs do a wet sleeve setup. The VR block is more robust than a VHR from the factory, but once they have both been hogged out for wet sleeves, you probably end up with a pretty similar result. Even those wet sleeved VR blocks dont last forever though. I know that most of the 1500+ hp GT-Rs will destroy their engine each event, which is why they bring spare engines or only do 1 or 2 passes before loading back up.
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Old 05-05-2015, 04:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Decision decisions...

Thanks Charles, ill be sure to come to you for any upgrades that i'll need! Much appreciated.
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Old 05-06-2015, 01:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What is a wet sleeve? Deep pockets?
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Google is your friend ....

Example of wet liner removal to give you an idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXd6-b1PQJ4

Lots of other references ...
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Aghhhh..
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Old 05-06-2015, 11:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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So I have the GTM 4.5L forced induction engine... There was alot of extras that went into it to make it more align with their race engines... We have darton sleeves and you really have to start adding supporting mods for a motor this robust... At a minimum we went to a 70mm racing radiator with twin 16" spal fans. We are running twin 34 row Setrab oil coolers *daisy chained*. I am also running an oil pan spacer as well. It is looking like I will be upgrading my wet sump oil pump as well for piece of mind and the ability to rev up to 9500 rpm... With a sleeved block cooling is definitely the #1 priority on our motors. You can make the parts bulletproof but if it gets too hot even they will fail!
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo370z View Post
What is a wet sleeve? Deep pockets?
When you sleeve a block, you can sleeve it wet or dry. The reference is to whether or not the sleeve is in direct contact with the water.

If you dry sleeve the block, you would basically just be boring it out large enough to eliminate the factory liner and into the aluminum, then you would press in a new, stronger/thicker sleeve.

When you wet sleeve it, you install sleeves that are so large, they are in direct contact with the water around the cylinder. In the VQ, this means removing the entirety of the floating sleeve. Then you press in the new sleeves.

A wet sleeve process is an interesting one, because you go from a block that was essentially one complete unit, to a block that is now just a chassis for individual sleeves that are just resting inside it. You have sacrificed some overall integrity of the foundation for the sake of individual cylinders that can handle much more pressure.

For a VQ block, this sacrifice is minimal since the sleeves were floating anyway, you remove very little of any structural part of the block. You are also adding some sleeve stability since the wet sleeves contact the block horizontally at the deck, when the stock sleeves last touched the block at the base.

There is lots of argument back and forth about the potential side effects of large masses of dissimilar materials when you put these giant ductile iron sleeves into aluminum blocks. There is no argument that the wet sleeved block will hold a LOT more power than the standard VQ block. The argument is to longevity, most specifically the headgasket.

Attached are photos of a VQ37VHR block prepped for a wet sleeve install, and a wet sleeve before installation.

If anyone wants a wet sleeve setup, I am practically next door to the guy who does the wet sleeves for most powerful GT-Rs, and as you can see from the photo, he has VHR experience as well now
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sleevevhr1.jpg (47.2 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg sleevevhr2.jpg (85.6 KB, 33 views)
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Old 05-06-2015, 01:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phunk View Post
When you sleeve a block, you can sleeve it wet or dry. The reference is to whether or not the sleeve is in direct contact with the water.

If you dry sleeve the block, you would basically just be boring it out large enough to eliminate the factory liner and into the aluminum, then you would press in a new, stronger/thicker sleeve.

When you wet sleeve it, you install sleeves that are so large, they are in direct contact with the water around the cylinder. In the VQ, this means removing the entirety of the floating sleeve. Then you press in the new sleeves.

A wet sleeve process is an interesting one, because you go from a block that was essentially one complete unit, to a block that is now just a chassis for individual sleeves that are just resting inside it. You have sacrificed some overall integrity of the foundation for the sake of individual cylinders that can handle much more pressure.

For a VQ block, this sacrifice is minimal since the sleeves were floating anyway, you remove very little of any structural part of the block. You are also adding some sleeve stability since the wet sleeves contact the block horizontally at the deck, when the stock sleeves last touched the block at the base.

There is lots of argument back and forth about the potential side effects of large masses of dissimilar materials when you put these giant ductile iron sleeves into aluminum blocks. There is no argument that the wet sleeved block will hold a LOT more power than the standard VQ block. The argument is to longevity, most specifically the headgasket.

Attached are photos of a VQ37VHR block prepped for a wet sleeve install, and a wet sleeve before installation.

If anyone wants a wet sleeve setup, I am practically next door to the guy who does the wet sleeves for most powerful GT-Rs, and as you can see from the photo, he has VHR experience as well now
Is there a reliable head gasket option for high horsepower built blocks?
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Old 05-06-2015, 01:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phunk View Post
When you sleeve a block, you can sleeve it wet or dry. The reference is to whether or not the sleeve is in direct contact with the water.

If you dry sleeve the block, you would basically just be boring it out large enough to eliminate the factory liner and into the aluminum, then you would press in a new, stronger/thicker sleeve.

When you wet sleeve it, you install sleeves that are so large, they are in direct contact with the water around the cylinder. In the VQ, this means removing the entirety of the floating sleeve. Then you press in the new sleeves.

A wet sleeve process is an interesting one, because you go from a block that was essentially one complete unit, to a block that is now just a chassis for individual sleeves that are just resting inside it. You have sacrificed some overall integrity of the foundation for the sake of individual cylinders that can handle much more pressure.

For a VQ block, this sacrifice is minimal since the sleeves were floating anyway, you remove very little of any structural part of the block. You are also adding some sleeve stability since the wet sleeves contact the block horizontally at the deck, when the stock sleeves last touched the block at the base.

There is lots of argument back and forth about the potential side effects of large masses of dissimilar materials when you put these giant ductile iron sleeves into aluminum blocks. There is no argument that the wet sleeved block will hold a LOT more power than the standard VQ block. The argument is to longevity, most specifically the headgasket.

Attached are photos of a VQ37VHR block prepped for a wet sleeve install, and a wet sleeve before installation.

If anyone wants a wet sleeve setup, I am practically next door to the guy who does the wet sleeves for most powerful GT-Rs, and as you can see from the photo, he has VHR experience as well now
Ahh that clears it up a lot more than google. I'm going to keep you in mind when I decide to rebuild my motor and do a dry sump set up to rev 9,000 rpms. As far as longevity what are your thoughts about it? Eventually I will track my car maybe once or twice a year and mostly driving it on the weekends.
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Old 05-06-2015, 01:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwick View Post
Is there a reliable head gasket option for high horsepower built blocks?
Cometic or OEM... I think we used cometic for my block but cant remember at the moment.
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwick View Post
Is there a reliable head gasket option for high horsepower built blocks?
Cosworth has HR/VHR headgaskets which I *believe* are manufactured by Cometic for Cosworth USA.

These are the gaskets I am going to try out on this build. My favorites have classically been HKS gaskets, but they only have DE style gaskets for the VQ.

What is very important is that you get proper head bolt or stud clamping force. This was the biggest problem for built DE's for a while, and cost the community a ton of money and gave VQ's a terrible name for high power. Everyone was using the standard ARP2000 head studs which had too low of a torque spec to hold up in the 500s and 600s, and head lift was a big problem. Nobody quite understood at first because it felt like the headstuds wouldnt be the issue after having just "upgraded" them. But it turned out it was the problem, and once people got the 1/2" studs done or L19 studs that could handle 90-100lb-ft of torque, the head lift issues and headgasket issues mostly subsided.

The VR engine uses a thread that is 1mm larger diameter than the VQ. Normally you couldnt machine a thread to just 1mm step-up because you wouldnt have removed the old threads yet. But I am pretty sure the PITCH is the same between the two, so very very carefully, it may be possible to oversize the threads up 1mm, but it would be a critical procedure and probably not recommended to bother. But I might try it, maybe. L19s havent been tearing out of the stock threads at high torque, but I would feel better with a larger thread in the block.
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think we are running L19's on my car now if I am not mistaken... Great Info Charles!
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