Stiff Front Sway Bar Thoughts

Jhill

Right it’s like you can tune the balance of the car with just one but your doing it in a way that may not be the best idea? Your only able to fix any understeer by making the rear lose mechanical grip sooner rather than being able to let the front grip longer. Having a previous car with only one of the aftermarket bars being adjustable in the set and then having to swap out their non adjustable bar for their other different sized non adjustable bar I made sure I’d have both front and rear be adjustable that way I could try balance the car both ways to see what felt best. IMO they’re a tuning tool so not having any tunability just doesn’t sit right since no two drivers are going to feel the same exact thing.

Rusty

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SeeThruHead

https://youtu.be/H7uALgGvXvw?t=692
https://youtu.be/H7uALgGvXvw?t=824
he's running 14k 6k(true)
he was running hotchkiss front and rear, going back to oem rear.

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OptionZero

Ok hold on
You’re gonna modify your car for handling

But you’re doing a sway bar and NOT adjustable arms?

This kinda undermines your experience doesn’t it?

Any that gives a **** about the effect of a sway bar should be at least optimizing front camber through alignment

Everyone that does regular track driving here is running around 3 degrees of camber

The stock alignment is WOEFULLY conservative

The reason why a stiff front bar can actually improve front grip is because the front suspension is so soft from the factory it needs the stiffer bar AND camber to stay planted

You’re bringing an amateur setup to this discussion and surprised your experience differs from others?

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AH370Z

No, Who is talking about Track setups? I'm not and the OP asked if the stiff front bar is good for any situation or only track and there are responses like "It's good for any situation when you turn your car hard" I chimed in with my experience focusing on street setup, good street tyres and using a firm setting on my bar no where as stiff as most that get reccomended on here and it seems to have upset the track junkies on here.

I do not need adjustable arms up front, the springs alone got me to -1.5 which was good enough at the time and since adding Koni yellows and replacing all the bushes in the FUCA incuding a double offset for the inner, this has gained me another -0.5 of camber so I am running -2.0 up front which is plenty for my agressive targa tarmac style of driving that I do.

Youtube Targa Tasmania and watch some clips. There is a reason participants are warned to leave their circuit racing mentality at the door. Track and Street racing are completly different and a stiff setup is the last thing you want unless you want to end up in a ditch.

OptionZero

So many ******* things wrong about this post, where do I start?

Street racing isn’t condoned here, and for normal daily driving who gives a **** about sway bar balance? At normal speeds, it doesn’t matter, you aren’t getting groceries any quicker.

A good coilovers setup won’t be “overly stiff” - the whole ******* point of spending money on coilovers to get adjustable height and damping AND better quality springs and dampers which are matched to each other AND YOUR INTENDED DRIVING STYLE. if you don’t know how to pick a good coilovers, there should be a suspension shop or manufacturer competent enough to do it for you

Adjusting camber with bushings and drop springs isn’t adjusting camber at all, you’re just randomly getting whatever spec is the side effect of lowering the car.

An adjustable front arm, specifically the SPL one, isn’t a “stiff setup’, it doesn’t affect stiffness at all. Maybe more feedback front replacing a bushing that may be worn, and going from rubber to metal, but the point is to be able to set your camber or caster to whatever you need.

Furthermore, the original post is from 2017. This thread has very clearly turned in a more track oriented discussion, YOU decided to weigh in with a perspective clearly limited in understanding of how suspension parts work and your own limitations as a driver

If you really think slapping a stiff front bar will suddenly turn your car into a death machin with snap oversteer, you’re just telling us you can’t ******* or are putting your self in suboptimal positions on purpose

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AH370Z

You make too many assumptions, you introduce coilovers into the discussion now while also making the point about my indended driving style. That is all I did in my previous messages which was to share MY experience with MY setup and MY driving style and you and a few others seem to have their knickers all twisted up about it. Now you want to critizise my camber setup. If I have no intention of going beyond -2 for front camber (which I dont) and a drop in spring height got me most of the way there and bushes I was doing anyway(for no other reason other to improve feel) got me the remaining -0.5 I will hapilly take it with money saved.

Oh and you say I am limited in understanding of how suspension parts work? Which you followed up with a dumb statement like Not how it works sorry to say and pretty sure Ive been refering to understeer the whole time.

Again not sure what my setup has to do with this? Am I competing am I? again MY setup suited to MY driving and MY roads, you have no clue about that and the point of the videos was to illustrate that with the type of roads we have down here which are not ideal on a stiff setup.

Your ignorance and attitude is not worth anymore of my time on this discussion. Good day to you.

OptionZero

For **** and giggles I looked up Targa Tasmania. Guess how they describe themselves?

With a proud history dating back to 1992, our reputation has been built on our ability to deliver high quality, professional tarmac rally events and driving experiences in unique and iconic Australian destinations. TARGA gives you closed roads, greater distance and an extraordinary sense of achievement.

We bring energy and excitement to everything we do, and consistently meet all required international safety standards. We show the utmost respect to our people, partners and customers and don’t compromise on this, no matter what.

TARGA deliver both competitive races and non-competitive touring events, sanctioned by Australia’s peak motor racing authority Motorsport Australia. TARGA includes tarmac rally events in Victoria’s High Country, Cairns in Far North Queensland and the longest and hardest tarmac rally in the world, in Tasmania.

So the thing you cite is….a racing authority that runs closed road events? And from YouTube videos, it sure looks like it has a shitload of high end cars that are running better than your lowering spring and bushing setup.

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BettyZ

Love how OptionZero comes in with her renowned people skills and queefs a vagload of dumbass all over the thread.

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OptionZero

Seriously?

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BettyZ

Yes. You have the social skills of a chainsaw that ran out of Copenhagen two days ago.

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sx moneypit

Rusty

I just about spit my drink out reading this.

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sx moneypit

SeeThruHead

fwiw
I think adding a hotchkiss front bar for my recent track days did not help understeer at all.

I need more track days with some different bar setups to really tell for sure.
But with stock tires, stock suspension and a hotchkiss front bar: The car was incredibly understeer prone.
Don't think the back stepped out once.
This could be explained away by driver error.

BUUUT. Sway bars are not expensive, and not hard to swap. So might as well have a couple different sets.

Obviously we know from all the actual track drivers, it's a much different story on track with proper track alignment.

But if I was building a car for daily canyon driving, on softish springs and PS4S. I think I would end up with a more balanced set of sway bars.

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