BBK Comparison thread: Brembo vs. StopTech vs. AP Racing

[daleks]

Originally Posted by AP - Chris_B

Since S/T is in a different category than AP or Brembo, it might be better to start a separate thread? It does confuse things to label so many brake systems into one category.

Chris

Different category how? That's kind of my question.

[AP - Chris_B]

Originally Posted by daleks

Different category how? That's kind of my question.

AP and Brembo (both owned by the Brembo group, but operated very independently) are at the pinnacle of global motorsports and braking worldwide. Between the two, they practically own F1 (AP has over 651 wins!) and NASCAR (87% of the field currently run AP), the two most demanding applications in the world for brakes. OK, you could also say the 24 Heures du Mans is amazingly brutal on brakes, but they own that, too!

They are both chosen as OE equipment on virtually all supercars on planet Earth from Bugatti Veryon (AP) to Gumpert Apollo (AP) to Pagani Zonda R (AP & Brembo), including all offerings from McLaren (AP), Porsche (Brembo), Ferrari (road - Brembo, race - AP & Brembo), Lamborghini (Brembo), Lotus (AP) and many, many more. There are two other companies that command respect at the most demanding levels of racing and extreme road vehicles, where the real lessons are learned. S/T, being a much younger company, is not one of those yet. Virtually all motorsports professionals will acknowledge this fact.

I'm not saying their product is no good, but no one can honestly say they are in the same category at this point in time -- never mind the even cheaper knock-off stuff coming from China/Taiwan/India. Of course, much of S/T's equipment originates in the Far East as well. I will say they have done a remarkable job with their marketing program for the time they have been in the industry.

For some, the price point is a determining factor (which is not much lower these days!) and that is fine for them. For those demanding the very best -- just like with everything else -- the choices narrow significantly.

Chris

[Gary_C]

Originally Posted by daleks

Different category how? That's kind of my question.

The easiest way to describe it...

Category 1:
Actual manufacturers of the products they sell.

Category 2:
Nothing more than "manupackagers" private label brands on the products they sell.

Category 1:
Controls the entire process from initial concept through R&D, employing the most rigorous testing and homoligation processes in the industry, onto the final production, assembly, quality control stages for EACH AND EVERY key component that comprises a complete brake system.

Category 2:
Supplies ideas, drawings, or concepts, primarily based on the products developed by the companies in Category 1, to overseas (mostly Chinese and Taiwanese) manufacturers who then provide them with whole components, or partial casting and forgings, that they can put the final touches and branding on before marketing them as their "own" products.

Category 1:
Leads with quality, performance, longevity and safety for the products they manufacturer, regardless of price, realizing that their will always be a market for those who understand and appreciate the difference.

Category 2:
Is limited in their abilities to provide the same level of quality, performance, longevity, and safety, because they lack the ability to control the processes that are the key to providing those results. They lead with pricing first, followed by marketing based on overcoming the objections and realizations of a more informed consumer.

Category 1:
Has significant relationships and are suppliers to leading automakers all over the world based on their ability to provide a product that meets or exceeds the extraordinary demands of OEM, and employs the engineering ability and manufacturing processes to offer a consistent and reliable supply chain.

Category 2:
Is not directly involved with OEM relationships due to the fact that they cannot function in the same fashion as a true manufacturer, nor guarantee the same results of their products at a level expected by major automakers.

BEWARE - Some of these "manupackagers" will confuse you with either the fact that their actual manufacturer is involved in OEM development or production, or may even be a supplier to an automakers own aftermarket division or tuning label based on the fact that these products are not subjected to the same rigorous standards or homoligation processes required by the automakers themselves.

Originally Posted by bullit5897

Being a business owner I understand why brembo, ap racing, endless and many others charge an arm and a leg for their products. Part is due to r&d costs while a good portion is because they have an established reputation and feel that the market can bare the weight of that pricing.

Category 1:
Not the case as described by bullit5897...
Brembo charges what some might consider "an arm and a leg" for their product because that is what it requires to manufacturer, supply, and guarantee a product that performs at the level expected by the leading brake supplier in the world. Brembo was the first manufacturer to develop an aftermarket division and set the standard for pricing based on just that. They have only had 2 price increase in 12 years (each time at less than 3%) and continually provides products with a lower profit margin than the majority of "manupackagers" and private label suppliers.

Category 2:
Is either forced to come it at a lower price point to try and take market share because they cannot compete against the likes of Brembo with an equal price point, OR, is actually overpriced on purpose to not be confused or grouped in with the "lower" level of product they compete with but are actually much more similar to. IE: Stoptech vs. Rotora

YES. Some more exclusive offerings from "JDM" tuners and manufacturers carry a premium once they come across the pond due to exclusivity, but that's not in line with anything from Category 1 companies.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Once you see how the companies themselves are different, it's a bit easier to identify how the products they supply may be different. The consumer falls into two categories as well.
(1) being those who don't know the difference and are subject to falling for misinformation.
(2) those who don't care and will continue to buy the lower level product while making any justification for their purchase other than admitting "well, it was cheaper."

I'd love to share some descriptions of the types of R&D and Testing that the Category 1 companies are capable of in order to show exactly where the difference comes from...but I'm sure Chris_B will agree with me,...that only makes the lesser qualified "manupackagers" better at what they do, because they'll start saying they do the same things.

The products themselves can't lie, which is why Category 1 companies control the majority of the industry in OEM, Professional Racing, and Aftermarket....while Category 2 companies fight for the scraps in the aftermarket, sponsor their products into professional racing, and will never have TRUE OEM accounts.

There is a defined pecking order, and it's most easily identifiable by price and reputation.

[ChrisSlicks]

Nicely said Chris & Gary.