E85 Tuning And Prep

[LukasC]

So guys i know we have a few members running E85 and they are making some good numbers! A gas station opened up very close so im going to hop on this band wagon. I just would like to start a thread with the benefits and bad sides to switching to E85 and what components need to be changed to make it reliable add more power etc. Anyone who has done this or knows what should be done to make it successful please chime in.

[SouthArk370Z]

Originally Posted by LukasC

So guys i know we have a few members running E85 and they are making some good numbers! A gas station opened up very close so im going to hop on this band wagon. I just would like to start a thread with the benefits and bad sides to switching to E85 and what components need to be changed to make it reliable add more power etc. Anyone who has done this or knows what should be done to make it successful please chime in.

Why? It has less HP and MPG per gallon than straight gasoline. EtOH production and use is not any better for the environment (some would say it's worse). IIRC, the manual says to not use E85. &c, &c, &c

Edit:
From 2009 Owner's Manual, page 9-3:

Do not use E-85 fuel in your vehicle. Your vehicle is not designed to run on E-85 fuel. Using E-85 fuel can damage the fuel system components and is not covered by the NISSAN vehicle limited warranty.

[elliotty]

I am hoping to tune on E85 in the near future. I wouldn't think there's too much to be gained unless you are running forced induction, but I may be wrong!

[elperuano]

Unless ur running forced induction with a built motor n shooting big numbers there's no need for e85. Any FI kit will suffice on pump gas. You'll most likely reach the limits of what the stock block can hold well before e85 is needed. Cost wise it ain't worth it if ur not gonna shoot for big numbers.

[LukasC]

The plan is one day to shoot big but for now i want to see what needs to b done to allow it. I already have uprev so just retuned and new injectors?

[SS_Firehawk]

New pump and injectors. Then tuning to advance the timing to the four winds and lean it out to take advantage of the extra octane boost and cooler fuel. Just don't expect crazy power gains.

[LukasC]

Ahh u need a new pump too? What kind?

Warranty is whatever who has a warranty anymore anyways. Theres a car in my city idk who it is who is using E85 and is making 335whp or something like that and he has the same mods as me with the only difference is E85

[Sh0velMan]

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

Why? It has less HP and MPG per gallon than straight gasoline. EtOH production and use is not any better for the environment (some would say it's worse). IIRC, the manual says to not use E85. &c, &c, &c

Edit:
From 2009 Owner's Manual, page 9-3:

It is true that there is less BTU per gallon in E85 than gasoline and requires much more of it to burn in a stoich mixture.

MPG is irrelevant due to that fact and the fact we're talking about power, not "miles per gallon", which is not the same as engine efficiency. One reason diesels get better 'MPG' is because diesel oil is much higher in BTU content than gasoline. As a general (read: not 100% true) rule of thumb, the heavier the petrochemical, the more BTU is locked up in it. Ethanol is much lower viscosity and specific gravity than gasoline, therefore you need more of it to get the same amount of work done.

That said, it is 105 octane from the pump and has a much lower combustion temperature.

Forced induction cars can see upwards of 20% gains simply be re-tuning on E85. N/A cars can see gains too depending on the setup and specifics.

I'm planning on re-tuning for E85 as soon as I get a fuel cell. Our cars aggressively modify ignition timing based upon fuel quality and coolant temp. Bumping to 105 octane while reducing combustion temps is a win-win.

[LukasC]

Good information keep it coming!

[SouthArk370Z]

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan

... Ethanol is much lower viscosity and specific gravity than gasoline, therefore you need more of it to get the same amount of work done. ...

Thanks for the info.

While it is true that hydrocarbons (LPG/gasoline) follow the "denser = more energy" rule - Ethane, Methane, Propane, Butane, Gasoline are increasingly denser and have more BTU - EtOH is not a hydrocarbon. EtOH, while having less energy content (21.2 MJ/L vs 34.8 for gaso and 38.6 for diesel), is more dense (0.79 g/cm3 vs 0.71–0.77 for gasoline).

[Sh0velMan]

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

Thanks for the info.

While it is true that hydrocarbons (LPG/gasoline) follow the "denser = more energy" rule - Ethane, Methane, Propane, Butane, Gasoline are increasingly denser and have more BTU - EtOH is not a hydrocarbon. EtOH, while having less energy content (21.2 MJ/L vs 34.8 for gaso and 38.6 for diesel), is more dense (0.79 g/cm3 vs 0.71–0.77 for gasoline).

I guess you're right on the density being higher of ethanol (an alcohol) than gasoline (a composite of several compounds lacking the relatively large amounts of oxygen present in ethanol).

So yeah, for hydrocarbons, heavier is more, not necessarily true for other compounds.

[Baer383]

Originally Posted by SouthArk370Z

Why? It has less HP and MPG per gallon than straight gasoline. EtOH production and use is not any better for the environment (some would say it's worse). IIRC, the manual says to not use E85. &c, &c, &c

Edit:
From 2009 Owner's Manual, page 9-3:

Man!!!!!!!!! like a Friggen Gun Slinger"

[Boost_lee]

Lukas, your car will consume lots of fuel (probably 30% more) on e85. If this is your only car and you do roadtrips frequently, I'd think twice about the jump to e85. Gains are decent, but this is still an NA car. If that isn't a concern, then you'll need a larger fuel pump and injectors along with the tune.

[elperuano]

Very surprised people taking this route for power. Has to be one of the worst mods for ur buck. NA guys running e85?????

[SouthArk370Z]

Originally Posted by Baer383

Man!!!!!!!!! like a Friggen Gun Slinger"

heehee Reading back over my comment, I can see where it could come off stronger than what I intended. It's not my place to tell someone what to do with their car.

( Click to show/hide )

But...
E85 can do some good with FI, but just doesn't make any sense for an NA engine, unless E85 is all you can get. (Since this was posted in the Tuning instead of FI section, I'm assuming the OP is talking about NA.) The cons (corrosion, incompatibility with many elastomers, lower energy content) outweigh the pro (higher octane). Stick with straight gas; 10% EtOH max. That's just my opinion, YMMV (no pun intended).