Nissan 370Z Forum  

Gains from E85 (ethanol) on an N/A bolt on 370Z

VitViper - is there a provision to run ethanol-content sensor like my GM truck has and incorporate its output to create a "flexible" table?

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z Tech Area > Engine & Drivetrain > Tuning


Like Tree50Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2015, 08:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 612
Drives: Z34|C4LT4|C6Z06|V25
Rep Power: 3365
POS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond repute
Default

VitViper - is there a provision to run ethanol-content sensor like my GM truck has and incorporate its output to create a "flexible" table?
POS VETT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 09:59 AM   #32 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
TerribleONE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Socal
Posts: 10,203
Drives: WOT
Rep Power: 5850
TerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond reputeTerribleONE has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by POS VETT View Post
VitViper - is there a provision to run ethanol-content sensor like my GM truck has and incorporate its output to create a "flexible" table?
Ecutek has recently released "flex fuel" and Fast Intentions is working on putting together a kit for it.
__________________
638WHP 541WTQ @ 13.5PSI
Build thread
TerribleONE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 12:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 125
Drives: 15 370Z
Rep Power: 15
VitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond reputeVitViper has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by warpeacelove View Post
Where can the flex fuel kit be obtained from for our platform?

Never mind I found it. 5 or 6 Cylinder - E85FlexBox
It's just a couple EFI fittings you can get on Summit, then the Zeitronix digital to analog convertor and a content sensor. Really simple. If I get bored I'll build a parts list of the correct fittings to buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by POS VETT View Post
VitViper - is there a provision to run ethanol-content sensor like my GM truck has and incorporate its output to create a "flexible" table?
Yes, ECUTek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerribleONE View Post
Ecutek has recently released "flex fuel" and Fast Intentions is working on putting together a kit for it.
ECUTek didn't release "flex fuel" per-say. Their software allows for custom maps to be written, and the tuner is able to use those custom maps to add Flex Fuel support into the ECU.
hjo1078 and RogueZ817 like this.
VitViper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2015, 02:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Riverside
Posts: 584
Drives: 40th 370Z
Rep Power: 11
lj909 is on a distinguished road
Default

Just to throw my $2 in here and my experience. I decided to put in a blend of ethanol. I'm on a stock tune and i used an online calculator to figure my octane numbers.

2 gal ethanol = 105 Oct
17 gal e10-91 = 91 Oct
19 gal blend = 93 Oct

Now i don't have dyno numbers but i definitely can say that there is more torque. The engine runs smother, sounds smother and my incline 1st gear start is less jumpy.

I used torque app to watch my AFR before and after and i would say the car leaned out about .50. Knowing the factory tune is rich, i figured a little leaning with ethanol would work out well. So far my mileage hasn't lowered.
__________________
PW 07 HR350Z R.I.P. Totaled by 82yr old woman
2010 40th Anniversary 370Z
lj909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 09:18 AM   #35 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
synolimit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 5,051
Drives: 2013 Silver 370z
Rep Power: 3388
synolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I lost power. Best description...Higher octane fuel is slower burning. If your not igniting it soon enough then u arent giving the fuel enough time to release its energy. What u need to take away from this is that your ecu/tuning system is inadequate for use with e85 on your application. Whatever u take from this dont fall into the "e85 doesnt work crowd" because ud be egregiously wrong. Unfortunately your setup just isn't working with e85. No one has ever made anything but less power with e85 on the same timing as gas. Thats just how it works. Our platforms tuning software suppliers need to step it up imho.


So if thats correct im not sure why you got more with fuel trimming only. Clearly i need ecutek! Turner can only run 28* same as gas.
Bill likes this.
__________________
13 370z-
synolimit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 10:05 AM   #36 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
njobe89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,227
Drives: 2013 370z BS 6MT
Rep Power: 174283
njobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

so with uprev and e85 you lost power?
__________________
2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8

Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq
njobe89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 11:57 AM   #37 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
abm89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,295
Drives: 11 370Z | 24 EL450
Rep Power: 64763
abm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Thanks for posting the info. I think this confirms that I will not be going forward with E85 when I switch to ECUtek.
__________________
Complete Parts List:
https://github.com/abm89/ztouge-build
abm89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 12:45 PM   #38 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
synolimit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 5,051
Drives: 2013 Silver 370z
Rep Power: 3388
synolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njobe89 View Post
so with uprev and e85 you lost power?
Appears so. Cant get the timing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by abm89 View Post
Thanks for posting the info. I think this confirms that I will not be going forward with E85 when I switch to ECUtek.
But as the OP stated timings better with ecutek. Its worth a look see.
__________________
13 370z-
synolimit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 12:53 PM   #39 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
synolimit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 5,051
Drives: 2013 Silver 370z
Rep Power: 3388
synolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitViper View Post
Whatever your tuner is comfortable with.



You'll make more power on pump just switching to ECUTek. With the timing control being garbage on UpRev you probably will only seem the initial gains from the fuel itself. On top of which you can't really do a true E85 tune without screwing up the load scaling on UpRev IIRC (been a while since I looked).
I used GTR's.

What timing are you running? My tuner cant get over 28 on any of the cars. He can tell it to but it wont. Im stuck at 28 on both 93 and e85. E85 lost me around 15hp. It just cant burn the mix soon enough. Is this what you're seeing or talking about with uprev?
__________________
13 370z-
synolimit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 12:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
njobe89's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,227
Drives: 2013 370z BS 6MT
Rep Power: 174283
njobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond reputenjobe89 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

hmm would be nice if someone had ecutek and tried this
__________________
2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8

Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq
njobe89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 02:02 PM   #41 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
abm89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,295
Drives: 11 370Z | 24 EL450
Rep Power: 64763
abm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by synolimit View Post
But as the OP stated timings better with ecutek. Its worth a look see.
I was basing that off the OP. 10hp doesn't seem worth the extra money and hassle of installing extra items as well as introducing a new point of failure into the drivetrain system.

If I were boosted, my answer would be different.
warpeacelove likes this.
__________________
Complete Parts List:
https://github.com/abm89/ztouge-build
abm89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2015, 05:42 PM   #42 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
synolimit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 5,051
Drives: 2013 Silver 370z
Rep Power: 3388
synolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njobe89 View Post
hmm would be nice if someone had ecutek and tried this
Lol like the OP?


Quote:
Originally Posted by abm89 View Post
I was basing that off the OP. 10hp doesn't seem worth the extra money and hassle of installing extra items as well as introducing a new point of failure into the drivetrain system.

If I were boosted, my answer would be different.

Nothings extra though. OEM GTR injectors could fail just as easy as OEM 370's. And a tunes a tune.
__________________
13 370z-
synolimit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 01:07 AM   #43 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
abm89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,295
Drives: 11 370Z | 24 EL450
Rep Power: 64763
abm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond reputeabm89 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by synolimit View Post
Nothings extra though. OEM GTR injectors could fail just as easy as OEM 370's. And a tunes a tune.
I would have to buy injectors, preferably a flex fuel sensor, something to monitor the ethanol content and a new fuel pump.

+ECUTek

....Not for 10hp.
__________________
Complete Parts List:
https://github.com/abm89/ztouge-build
abm89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 02:39 AM   #44 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
roplusbee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Killeen, TX
Posts: 2,360
Drives: 2007 350Z NISMO
Rep Power: 22
roplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond reputeroplusbee has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to roplusbee Send a message via Yahoo to roplusbee
Default

The real benefit when making the switch to E85 or flex fuel is the safety margin that is provided against detonation. Chasing NA numbers is difficult in itself, but reliability/safety becomes an issue when climbing higher and higher up that ladder. Same thing for turbo and supercharged applications.

Flex fuel is one of the great things that our government developed and released to the public. Too bad not many companies (especially the outer lying stations) took the opportunity...........
__________________
2007 350Z NISMO #0618: Zerolift | UPREV | F.I. | Greddy | Competition Clutch | Injector Dynamics | Aeromotive | Pioneer | JL
roplusbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2015, 04:20 AM   #45 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
synolimit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 5,051
Drives: 2013 Silver 370z
Rep Power: 3388
synolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond reputesynolimit has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abm89 View Post
I would have to buy injectors, preferably a flex fuel sensor, something to monitor the ethanol content and a new fuel pump.

+ECUTek

....Not for 10hp.
O yeah not me haha. $200 injectors and call it a day. And i spent $10 on a test tube to measure the content.
__________________
13 370z-
synolimit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
POLL: Who runs Ethanol? Who wants to run Ethanol? visconti Tuning 9 12-18-2013 12:07 AM
10% Ethanol vs. Ethanol Free Gas Stino Nissan 370Z General Discussions 23 11-27-2012 08:03 AM
Which exhaust company makes the most RWH gains for the 370z?? antfd3s Intake/Exhaust 20 01-08-2011 11:06 AM
Bolt on gains Zsteve Engine & Drivetrain 2 07-23-2010 06:50 PM
Bolt-on power gains...? 6MT Intake/Exhaust 7 06-08-2009 03:01 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2