UpRev ECU tune results for Semtex's Z

semtex · 11-03-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

Sorry to hear that man, IBM has been cutting jobs left right and center. At least they have decent layoff packages if you have been there for a few years.

From what I could determine the Hotchkis was slightly stiffer than the Stillen, however I think the Stillen suits a street car better. On my car the Hotchkis was too stiff up front for the stock alignment to handle and was detrimental to turn-in response until the front camber was increased. The Stillen also appears to be better made in that they use a crimp on lateral stop instead of a welded stop like the Hotchkis. The Hotchkis have been known to fail at the weld. I also think the Stillen is cheaper. The Hotchkis is 3-way adjustable in the rear where as the Stillen is only 2-way. Neither is adjustable up front.

I can only speak for the stiffness of the Hotchkis on my car but the body roll was greatly reduced, and the grip level increased slightly in the mid to high speed cornering. Car also feels more predictable with bumps in corners at speed.

Thanks for the advice and explaining the differences, Chris. Much appreciated. Yeah, what IBM is doing now is just . . . I don't know quite how to describe it. Sad? Evil? Not sure.

IBM has been sending jobs overseas for several years now to places like Brazil, India, and China. Now that their labor force in those geos is well established, the workers there have been demanding higher wages that are more on par with those of the U.S. Can't say I blame them. Equal pay for equal work, right? Well, IBM's response strategy is to methodically reclassify the pay grades for the remaining U.S. jobs. Our pay grade has 10 band levels. I'm a band 7. They're taking my job (along with all the others in my area) and moving them to this new delivery center in Dubuque. If I want to keep doing what I'm doing, I'm free to move to Dubuque on my own dime and re-apply for my position. But there's a catch -- my job in Dubuque will be Band 4. So, exact same work, a fraction of my current pay. By doing methodically across the board to their entire U.S. workforce, they pull the rug out from those folks overseas who are demanding wage parity. Essentially, IBM can say to them: "You want wage parity? You got it. See? Now you're making the same money your U.S. counterparts make, because we lowered U.S. salaries to be on par with those in the developing world. There's your wage parity."

The irony of all this is that globalization was intended to help end poverty in the developing world by bringing their wages up to developed-world levels. But instead, it's driving developed-world wages down. So the disparity in wealth distribution will go up commensurate to a sharply reduced middle class. Welcome to the new world order.

B1nks · 11-03-2009, 05:54 PM

I'm actually a little surprised that they are doing all of this laying off since my buddy just got offered a job there. His major is international business and he will be graduating Texas A&M in december, I believe, and they told him he has the choice of LA cali, ATL,GA ; Boston,MA; Houston or Dallas Texas; NYC. Makes me wonder if he knows about the job cutbacks..what is it you do for IBM ?

semtex · 11-03-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B1nks

I'm actually a little surprised that they are doing all of this laying off since my buddy just got offered a job there. His major is international business and he will be graduating Texas A&M in december, I believe, and they told him he has the choice of LA cali, ATL,GA ; Boston,MA; Houston or Dallas Texas; NYC. Makes me wonder if he knows about the job cutbacks..what is it you do for IBM ?

I'm a business analyst. It doesn't surprise me that your buddy got offered a job by IBM, because they're doing a LOT of hiring. You see, in conjunction with my previous post above (which I know you didn't get a chance to read prior to your reply), IBM is replacing all the veteran IBMers that are getting sacked. There's a good chance that your buddy is taking over a job that someone else just got laid off from, and at a fraction of the pay the other person was making. This leads me to the 'evil' part of this whole thing. At the end of the day, the execs are going to spin this by saying 'Look at how many U.S. jobs we created!' Those bastards are going to try to come out of this looking like heroes. It's not by chance that they've opened a huge new delivery center in Dubuque, Iowa. They deliberately chose a region of the country that is a little more lacking in job opportunities, so that they can say 'We brought thousands of new jobs to the heartland of America'.

PunKidd · 11-03-2009, 06:12 PM

Hey all,
Jared here at UpRev. I just started hearing about this from Sharif early this morning and I also got a call from caneman88 today.
The hesitation is a really strange problem and we have not come across anything like it before. You'll have to excuse us for not finding this during development. It's pretty rare that we're working on a cold car. They are usually running on the dyno for hours and hours while we test.

The big delay on getting this resolved is going to be us getting access to a car so we can duplicate it an trouble shoot the issue. caneman88 said that he can bring his Z back up here for us to work on if for a day and I feel that there is a very good chance we'll be able to get it figured out in a day and get it resolved (as long as we're not having to let it cool down for 5+ hours between tests), but that's going to be 1-2 weeks from now depending on his schedule. If there is anyone in the Austin area who is willing to come in and let us test on their Z for 24 hours this week I will offer a free reflash license to them for the use of their Z. I would have to be a 370Z with one of the EAxxx ROMs since that seems to be the family of ROMs that is having this problem and they will need to be able to leave it here overnight so it can cool off enough to duplicate the problem.

There was mention of a user who is too far away from their tuner to get the car all the way back for the fix once we have this figured out... if you're willing to make a $200 "deposit" on a Cipher cable we can ship you an Osiris standard system with the fixed ROM and your tune loaded into it so that you can update your ECU and ship the cable back to us to get your $200 deposit back.

In the mean time, if there is anyone out there having this issue that has access to Cipher for data logging that could data log the ECU parameters when this is happening that could help us get off to an early start. It would be great to know if it's the throttle plate not opening right away, the VVEL not increasing the lift, or the fuel/ignition that is causing the hesitation. I will offer the same deal as above if someone wants to put down a deposit on a Cipher cable to get these logs for us.

About dumping the ROMs off of a 370Z... yes, it does take an hour to do any unsupported ECU. If it's already supported then it is possible to do the fast 2-5 minute dump, but if it's already supported, then we already have a copy of the ROM on file so there is little need to dump. You can't flash one of our dumped ROMs anyway. It has to be sent back to us so that it can be properly formatted to work with Osiris. There is a "back to stock" feature for the older style ECUs, but our developers are still working on support for the Gen4 ECUs found in the 370Z. They should have that feature wrapped up within a couple of weeks, but we felt that it was important to get the tuning capability out to our tuners even without the back to stock feature.

Please let me know if anyone has any further input or questions on the subject.
Jared@UpRev.com

semtex · 11-03-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunKidd

Hey all,
Jared here at UpRev. I just started hearing about this from Sharif early this morning and I also got a call from caneman88 today.
The hesitation is a really strange problem and we have not come across anything like it before. You'll have to excuse us for not finding this during development. It's pretty rare that we're working on a cold car. They are usually running on the dyno for hours and hours while we test.

The big delay on getting this resolved is going to be us getting access to a car so we can duplicate it an trouble shoot the issue. caneman88 said that he can bring his Z back up here for us to work on if for a day and I feel that there is a very good chance we'll be able to get it figured out in a day and get it resolved (as long as we're not having to let it cool down for 5+ hours between tests), but that's going to be 1-2 weeks from now depending on his schedule. If there is anyone in the Austin area who is willing to come in and let us test on their Z for 24 hours this week I will offer a free reflash license to them for the use of their Z. I would have to be a 370Z with one of the EAxxx ROMs since that seems to be the family of ROMs that is having this problem and they will need to be able to leave it here overnight so it can cool off enough to duplicate the problem.

There was mention of a user who is too far away from their tuner to get the car all the way back for the fix once we have this figured out... if you're willing to make a $200 "deposit" on a Cipher cable we can ship you an Osiris standard system with the fixed ROM and your tune loaded into it so that you can update your ECU and ship the cable back to us to get your $200 deposit back.

In the mean time, if there is anyone out there having this issue that has access to Cipher for data logging that could data log the ECU parameters when this is happening that could help us get off to an early start. It would be great to know if it's the throttle plate not opening right away, the VVEL not increasing the lift, or the fuel/ignition that is causing the hesitation. I will offer the same deal as above if someone wants to put down a deposit on a Cipher cable to get these logs for us.

About dumping the ROMs off of a 370Z... yes, it does take an hour to do any unsupported ECU. If it's already supported then it is possible to do the fast 2-5 minute dump, but if it's already supported, then we already have a copy of the ROM on file so there is little need to dump. You can't flash one of our dumped ROMs anyway. It has to be sent back to us so that it can be properly formatted to work with Osiris. There is a "back to stock" feature for the older style ECUs, but our developers are still working on support for the Gen4 ECUs found in the 370Z. They should have that feature wrapped up within a couple of weeks, but we felt that it was important to get the tuning capability out to our tuners even without the back to stock feature.

Please let me know if anyone has any further input or questions on the subject.
Jared@UpRev.com

Jared, thanks for taking the time to provide us with such a detailed update and explanation of all the different aspects. Very much appreciated!

PunKidd · 11-03-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Jared, thanks for taking the time to provide us with such a detailed update and explanation of all the different aspects. Very much appreciated!

Anytime.

And yes, Rich is out at SEMA. Normally we all go and have a good time in LA and Vegas for a week, but this year me John and Hans all stayed behind to work on development. Just too many things to get done and not even close to enough time, as is life.

Jared@UpRev.com

semtex · 11-03-2009, 06:25 PM

Jared,

Some info you might find interesting. On another thread, jpit (another member) threw the following code:

P2721 Pressure Control Solenoid “D” Control Circuit High

Now here's the interesting part. This is what jpit just posted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpit

Interestingly, I threw this code when trying to accelerate past the problem we are having with the Uprev cold start.

I'm hoping that might be a good clue for your troubleshooting.

PunKidd · 11-03-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Jared,

Some info you might find interesting. On another thread, jpit (another member) threw the following code:

P2721 Pressure Control Solenoid “D” Control Circuit High

Now here's the interesting part. This is what jpit just posted:

I'm hoping that might be a good clue for your troubleshooting.

That's a start. Sounds like the throttle plate to me since now the throttle plate is actually just used to maintain manifold pressure (or vacuum as it were) and the VVEL is what actually controls the engine revs. We'll probably start by removing the ETC patches (since you really don't need to tune them on the VVEL engines anyway) and see what that does for us.

Jared@UpRev.com

RCZ · 11-03-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunKidd

That's a start. Sounds like the throttle plate to me since now the throttle plate is actually just used to maintain manifold pressure (or vacuum as it were) and the VVEL is what actually controls the engine revs. We'll probably start by removing the ETC patches (since you really don't need to tune them on the VVEL engines anyway) and see what that does for us.

Jared@UpRev.com

Jared, I sent you an e-mail. I'm willing to help out if I can.

PunKidd · 11-03-2009, 06:29 PM

You gotta hate the corporate structure. Everything is done based on what is best for profits and not what is best for the employees, the customer, or even the long term stability of the company. I was an engineer for Applied Materials (microchip manufacturing equipment manufacturer) for ~4 years before I started UpRev and they are into all the same crap. Sending jobs over seas, cutting wages whenever they can find a good excuse, overworking and under paying EVERYONE. It's total BS, but in a country (and now world) where corporations rule supreme above all governments, it's never gonna change, only get worse until they squeeze us all so hard the whole system fails. I'm a firm believer in true capitalism and what it does for communities, but that's not what we've had in this country for a LONG time. It's been corporatisum for a LONG time now and true capitalists don't stand a chance.

semtex · 11-03-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunKidd

You gotta hate the corporate structure. Everything is done based on what is best for profits and not what is best for the employees, the customer, or even the long term stability of the company. I was an engineer for Applied Materials (microchip manufacturing equipment manufacturer) for ~4 years before I started UpRev and they are into all the same crap. Sending jobs over seas, cutting wages whenever they can find a good excuse, overworking and under paying EVERYONE. It's total BS, but in a country (and now world) where corporations rule supreme above all governments, it's never gonna change, only get worse until they squeeze us all so hard the whole system fails. I'm a firm believer in true capitalism and what it does for communities, but that's not what we've had in this country for a LONG time. It's been corporatisum for a LONG time now and true capitalists don't stand a chance.

Agreed. And forget about doing what's best for the country. That doesn't even factor into their decision making process. In fact, several years ago, the execs at IBM made a point of telling us all that we should no longer consider IBM to be an American company. We're a Global company now; we transcend the boundaries of nation-states. Basically, it was their way of telling us that U.S. national interests were no longer their concern. The only interests they are concerned about are those related to the stock valuation.

cotizi · 11-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Jared, I live about 5 min away and can maybe take you up on your offer. I'll give you guys a call in the morning if i dont hear back first.

earwicker7 · 11-05-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunKidd

You gotta hate the corporate structure. Everything is done based on what is best for profits and not what is best for the employees, the customer, or even the long term stability of the company. I was an engineer for Applied Materials (microchip manufacturing equipment manufacturer) for ~4 years before I started UpRev and they are into all the same crap. Sending jobs over seas, cutting wages whenever they can find a good excuse, overworking and under paying EVERYONE. It's total BS, but in a country (and now world) where corporations rule supreme above all governments, it's never gonna change, only get worse until they squeeze us all so hard the whole system fails. I'm a firm believer in true capitalism and what it does for communities, but that's not what we've had in this country for a LONG time. It's been corporatisum for a LONG time now and true capitalists don't stand a chance.

It's actually not as bad in every country. I had a European explain it to me:

"In most areas of Europe, management looks at the labor force as an asset. If they have a good worker, they want to do everything they can to keep that person working in their company. They look at companies like a family; if the company does well, they assume that EVERYONE from top to bottom had a hand in it. In America, labor is looked at purely as a liability. Management has absolutely no desire to cultivate their workers, and if they can find someone to do the job for less money, they are more than happy even if the replacement is of lower quality. If a company does well, all of the credit goes to the executives and upper level management."

A bit of a generalization of course, but I think it's about as good of an explanation as I've heard.

jpit · 11-03-2009, 06:51 PM

Jared,

It also threw code P0221 at the same time as the P2721. I have seen this code many times on other cars when there is any type of problem with acceleration.

semtex · 11-03-2009, 07:06 PM

From Nissan OBD-II Trouble Code P0221

P0221

Trouble diagnosis name: Throttle position sensor circuit range/performance problem

Component Description

Electric Throttle Control Actuator consists of throttle control motor, throttle position sensor, etc. The throttle position sensor responds to the throttle valve movement.

The throttle position sensor has the two sensors. These sensors are a kind of potentiometers which transform the throttle valve position into output voltage, and emit the voltage signal to the ECM. In addition, these sensors detect the opening and closing speed of the throttle valve and feed the voltage signals to the ECM. The ECM judges the current opening angle of the throttle valve from these signals and the ECM controls the throttle control motor to make the throttle valve opening angle properly in response to driving condition.

DTC detecting condition:

* Rationally incorrect voltage is sent to ECM compared with the signals from TP sensor 1 and TP sensor 2.

Possible cause:

* Harness or connector (The TP sensor 1 and 2 circuit is open or shorted.)
* Electric throttle control actuator (TP sensor 1 and 2) may be faulty

11-03-2009, 06:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
cotizi Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 391 Drives: 2012 VW GTI 6MT Rep Power: 219	Jared, I live about 5 min away and can maybe take you up on your offer. I'll give you guys a call in the morning if i dont hear back first. __________________ Past - 2009 Silver 6MT Sport 370Z Current - 2012 VW GTI 6-Speed

11-03-2009, 07:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 55 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 34	From Nissan OBD-II Trouble Code P0221 P0221 Trouble diagnosis name: Throttle position sensor circuit range/performance problem Component Description Electric Throttle Control Actuator consists of throttle control motor, throttle position sensor, etc. The throttle position sensor responds to the throttle valve movement. The throttle position sensor has the two sensors. These sensors are a kind of potentiometers which transform the throttle valve position into output voltage, and emit the voltage signal to the ECM. In addition, these sensors detect the opening and closing speed of the throttle valve and feed the voltage signals to the ECM. The ECM judges the current opening angle of the throttle valve from these signals and the ECM controls the throttle control motor to make the throttle valve opening angle properly in response to driving condition. DTC detecting condition: * Rationally incorrect voltage is sent to ECM compared with the signals from TP sensor 1 and TP sensor 2. Possible cause: * Harness or connector (The TP sensor 1 and 2 circuit is open or shorted.) * Electric throttle control actuator (TP sensor 1 and 2) may be faulty __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Semtex's Monterey Blue 370Z	semtex	Member's 370Z Gallery	235	06-21-2013 12:49 AM
Cobb vs UpRev	FricFrac	Tuning	183	11-05-2009 05:14 PM
UpRev still coming out for the 370Z	FricFrac	Tuning	2	08-22-2009 07:32 AM
UpRev development status	semtex	Tuning	12	07-13-2009 11:34 AM
Semtex, RCZ... What gear on the dyno	DannyGT	Engine & Drivetrain	14	04-14-2009 01:07 PM

11-03-2009, 05:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
B1nks Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston,Tx Posts: 721 Drives: 2009 370Z Base 6MT Rep Power: 509	I'm actually a little surprised that they are doing all of this laying off since my buddy just got offered a job there. His major is international business and he will be graduating Texas A&M in december, I believe, and they told him he has the choice of LA cali, ATL,GA ; Boston,MA; Houston or Dallas Texas; NYC. Makes me wonder if he knows about the job cutbacks..what is it you do for IBM ?

11-03-2009, 06:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
PunKidd Base Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Austin TX Posts: 10 Drives: Lots of fast cars Rep Power: 17	Hey all, Jared here at UpRev. I just started hearing about this from Sharif early this morning and I also got a call from caneman88 today. The hesitation is a really strange problem and we have not come across anything like it before. You'll have to excuse us for not finding this during development. It's pretty rare that we're working on a cold car. They are usually running on the dyno for hours and hours while we test. The big delay on getting this resolved is going to be us getting access to a car so we can duplicate it an trouble shoot the issue. caneman88 said that he can bring his Z back up here for us to work on if for a day and I feel that there is a very good chance we'll be able to get it figured out in a day and get it resolved (as long as we're not having to let it cool down for 5+ hours between tests), but that's going to be 1-2 weeks from now depending on his schedule. If there is anyone in the Austin area who is willing to come in and let us test on their Z for 24 hours this week I will offer a free reflash license to them for the use of their Z. I would have to be a 370Z with one of the EAxxx ROMs since that seems to be the family of ROMs that is having this problem and they will need to be able to leave it here overnight so it can cool off enough to duplicate the problem. There was mention of a user who is too far away from their tuner to get the car all the way back for the fix once we have this figured out... if you're willing to make a $200 "deposit" on a Cipher cable we can ship you an Osiris standard system with the fixed ROM and your tune loaded into it so that you can update your ECU and ship the cable back to us to get your $200 deposit back. In the mean time, if there is anyone out there having this issue that has access to Cipher for data logging that could data log the ECU parameters when this is happening that could help us get off to an early start. It would be great to know if it's the throttle plate not opening right away, the VVEL not increasing the lift, or the fuel/ignition that is causing the hesitation. I will offer the same deal as above if someone wants to put down a deposit on a Cipher cable to get these logs for us. About dumping the ROMs off of a 370Z... yes, it does take an hour to do any unsupported ECU. If it's already supported then it is possible to do the fast 2-5 minute dump, but if it's already supported, then we already have a copy of the ROM on file so there is little need to dump. You can't flash one of our dumped ROMs anyway. It has to be sent back to us so that it can be properly formatted to work with Osiris. There is a "back to stock" feature for the older style ECUs, but our developers are still working on support for the Gen4 ECUs found in the 370Z. They should have that feature wrapped up within a couple of weeks, but we felt that it was important to get the tuning capability out to our tuners even without the back to stock feature. Please let me know if anyone has any further input or questions on the subject. Jared@UpRev.com

11-03-2009, 06:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
PunKidd Base Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Austin TX Posts: 10 Drives: Lots of fast cars Rep Power: 17	You gotta hate the corporate structure. Everything is done based on what is best for profits and not what is best for the employees, the customer, or even the long term stability of the company. I was an engineer for Applied Materials (microchip manufacturing equipment manufacturer) for ~4 years before I started UpRev and they are into all the same crap. Sending jobs over seas, cutting wages whenever they can find a good excuse, overworking and under paying EVERYONE. It's total BS, but in a country (and now world) where corporations rule supreme above all governments, it's never gonna change, only get worse until they squeeze us all so hard the whole system fails. I'm a firm believer in true capitalism and what it does for communities, but that's not what we've had in this country for a LONG time. It's been corporatisum for a LONG time now and true capitalists don't stand a chance.

11-03-2009, 06:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
jpit Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 440 Drives: 370Z Tour MT w/Spt Rep Power: 18	Jared, It also threw code P0221 at the same time as the P2721. I have seen this code many times on other cars when there is any type of problem with acceleration.