4 point harness for Auto x only

[redline10000]

Hi Everyone

I know that harness bars and racing harnesses should not be used on the street and on the track unless you have a roll cage. But I did a lot of reading and found that its OK to run a harness and harness bar ONLY for Autox. I am tired of sliding around everywhere during my runs and I was told this will really help. I see that cipher racing, although not a great brand makes a harness bar for the 370z now.

Amazon.com: 2009-2014 NISSAN 370Z CIPHER AUTO RACING SEAT HARNESS BAR BLACK: Automotive

Question is if I buy this bar for Autox where can anchor the lower lap belts of the 4 point harness? I would like to do it without any welding to the car. If people could post some close up pics of the ways they have done it I would really appreciate it. Also if this idea is just a waste of time just tell me and Ill go buy some front control arms :-).

I found that someone just bolted the harness to the seat anchors but I am not sure that is safe.

http://timsam.smugmug.com/photos/413269210_jApaV-M.jpg

[karotZ]

I had the same issue before. So instead, I bought a Robispec harness bar and had bolt-on locations welded for the upper harness. As for the lower portion, I have bucket seats installed and had a lower bolt-on location professionally welded as well.

[redline10000]

Originally Posted by karotZ

I had the same issue before. So instead, I bought a Robispec harness bar and had bolt-on locations welded for the upper harness. As for the lower portion, I have bucket seats installed and had a lower bolt-on location professionally welded as well.

Thnx KarotZ. The lower part of my harness is what I am concerned about, I wanted to avoid welding anything to the trans tunnel if possible. Did you weld to the tans tunnel or to the seat bracket?

[redline10000]

I found this vid where at 10 mjns into the vid the guy mounted the lap belt to the seat frame. I would think this is safe since I will use a harness bar for the shoulders. Maybe then i could mount to the factory lap belt reciver point.
http://youtu.be/e2nZCAxQJpM

[wstar]

What makes it "safe" for Auto-X is that you're less-likely to roll the car than you are on a racetrack. I'm not sure I really buy that logic (I mean, how likely are you to roll a car *ever*? Either you ignore the low-probability danger or you don't).

Regardless of how you feel about all that (all safety is a tradeoff after all - you'd be safer not driving at all!), if you're going 4-point instead of 5/6-point, consider using Scroth's belts with the anti-submarining feature, e.g. SCHROTH RACING > Professional Racing Harnesses . It helps make up for the lack of 5/6-point attachment by letting your shoulder roll forward a bit to keep you from digging under the lap belt and getting really ****** up.

[wstar]

Oh and as for mounting, you really do need to weld in some bungs on the trans tunnel. There's no really good substitute for that. Any race shop (as in, people who normally work on cages and safety belts) can do it cheaply and quickly, just pull out the seats and pull up the carpet and weld a small plate onto there.

[Shamu]

I always get a kick from this video. National level car and driver. I think your fine with 4 point for AX.

SCCA Packwood, WA National tour July 12, 2009 day2, run3 - YouTube

[Masterbeatty]

Originally Posted by Shamu

I always get a kick from this video. National level car and driver. I think your fine with 4 point for AX.

SCCA Packwood, WA National tour July 12, 2009 day2, run3 - YouTube

WTF. That dude isn't wearing a seat belt

[06PlatinumG]

For auto-x all you need is a CG Lock. Works great

CG-Lock for Adults - CG-Lock.com

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Shamu

I always get a kick from this video. National level car and driver. I think your fine with 4 point for AX.

SCCA Packwood, WA National tour July 12, 2009 day2, run3 - YouTube

He's driving the car like he was riding a motorcycle. He's leaning in the turns. LOL I used to do that when I was younger. I spent more time on a bike then in a car.

[edconline]

I have a 5-point in my car for occasional track/auto-X. No cage, I'm well aware of the extremely low risk of rollover, may eventually get a 4 point hoop. That said, I didn't weld any attachments on for the harnesses and retained the stock seatbelts. I'll take/post some pics when I get a chance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[redline10000]

Originally Posted by 06PlatinumG

For auto-x all you need is a CG Lock. Works great

CG-Lock for Adults - CG-Lock.com

Thnx I have a cg lock now, It does work pretty well but it is not the same retention as a 4 point. Also it gets a bit annoying after a while as it keeps falling off my buckle.

[redline10000]

Originally Posted by wstar

What makes it "safe" for Auto-X is that you're less-likely to roll the car than you are on a racetrack. I'm not sure I really buy that logic (I mean, how likely are you to roll a car *ever*? Either you ignore the low-probability danger or you don't).

Regardless of how you feel about all that (all safety is a tradeoff after all - you'd be safer not driving at all!), if you're going 4-point instead of 5/6-point, consider using Scroth's belts with the anti-submarining feature, e.g. SCHROTH RACING > Professional Racing Harnesses . It helps make up for the lack of 5/6-point attachment by letting your shoulder roll forward a bit to keep you from digging under the lap belt and getting really ****** up.

Agreed I am not too worried about roll over. I Ax and an airfield and there really no spots for me to even get the chance of rolling over.

I looked into the ASM belts but I'm not sure that's needed as well. What are the chances of me hitting something head on on the course? I would go with a 5 point be they don't work with stock seats :-(.

[redline10000]

Originally Posted by edconline

I have a 5-point in my car for occasional track/auto-X. No cage, I'm well aware of the extremely low risk of rollover, may eventually get a 4 point hoop. That said, I didn't weld any attachments on for the harnesses and retained the stock seatbelts. I'll take/post some pics when I get a chance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thnx I would definitely like to see some pics.

[wstar]

Originally Posted by redline10000

Agreed I am not too worried about roll over. I Ax and an airfield and there really no spots for me to even get the chance of rolling over.

I looked into the ASM belts but I'm not sure that's needed as well. What are the chances of me hitting something head on on the course? I would go with a 5 point be they don't work with stock seats :-(.

Well, you can extend that logic indefinitely. What are the chances of *anything* going wrong? Why even wear a helmet? It is important to reasonably protect yourself.

It's contradictory to say you'd use a 5-point if it weren't for the seats, but don't see the value in the Schroth ASM. The whole point of it is to provide the safety benefit of the 5th point, without a 5th point, for mostly-stock cars. Any collision from a frontal angle is going to benefit from having 5/6-point or ASM. You don't want your body trying to push under the lap belt (not that your body gets very far with that effort, but that allows the lap belt to ride up off your hips and into your gut, which can cause pretty severe internal injuries).

If you want to be rational about it, you could make a pseudo formula (sort of like the Drake Equation), that goes like: Value of Anti-Sub feature = Risk of major forward collision per year * value to me of having a functioning liver and/or not walking around with a colostomy bag for the rest of my life. Then compare that value to the additional cost of the ASM. I don't know about you, but for me that risk level would have to be insanely small to make it not worth it, because I put a lot of value on my hobby not crippling my internal organs.

Same sort of logic applies to multiplying out the tiny tiny chance of a rollover vs the value to you of not being paralyzed or killed one weekend. The odds may be tiny, but the loss is tremendous. It doesn't cost *that* much to stick a 4-point hoop system in a car and buy some level of protection.