Rollbar / seats / harness stuff, yet again...

cossie1600

Aren't most track side injuries related to side impact more than rollovers?

wstar

No idea here. As I said above, the point of contemplating the 4-point was less about rollover worry than about safely mounting harnesses for better driving, without upgrading a rare rollover event into a suicidal event.

I really don't expect my car to roll over at an HPDE at all, it seems far more likely that I get an angled hit on a (hopefully tire) wall, get rear-ended coming down into a corner by some guy with a brake problem, or something of that nature. I suppose a side-hit would be likely if I spun out and came back across the track into someone's path.

Probably bad luck to even mention it, but I've never had real, complete spin in this car. My closest call was on my very first time at a road course ever (direct link to a few seconds before: MSR Aug11). That was technically a spin in the sense of "off-track excursion", but meh that's semantics. I've never lost control to the point that the car went back-end-first or even fully sideways towards anything, and I really don't plan on it. You know how plans go, though

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ryan0

If thats the case... no one makes a harness bar for these things?

and if you are planning on finding a mounting point for your eventual hoop, why not just have it made half height for now to strap harnesses to?

wstar

Most of the stock parts are designed to give. Even the "hard" bits on them. They'd really hurt to smash your head on, but they *will* give a little. That rollbar won't give, ever. Top windshield frame is kind of out of the picture though, unless you have no seatbelts and no airbags.

Being strapped into a harness without a rollbar over your head is definitely-bad. You roll over and you're basically dead.

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ryan0

a B pillar will not give... it is designed as a 'roll bar'. you think a b-pillar will give if your head hits it, but won't give if the car actually rolls over? (its designed purpose)

and as far as the windshield frame goes (see above)... but also you'd be surprised how much stretching and movement goes on in a crash.


agreed that being strapped in w/o roll over protection CAN be bad. thats why i was asking how they hold up in a roll over. if they hold up pretty well, then i'd rather gamble that my odds of hitting something sideways, or head on, were much greater than being involved in a roll over.

tracking cars safely usually comes down to playing odds...

chances are you are going to hit something at an angle... rollovers are a long shot compared to impact.

in this case he is saying he is going to track the car anyway, and only place a little emphasis on safety for now... fine... his call.

factor in the odds of an 'earnhardt' vs a roll over... how well the OEM roof holds up... the fact that he is going to run 4-pts (available submarine room)... and a reclinable seat (available collapse room).

my money is on harness bar and HANS...

wstar

I don't think the stock B-pillars are design to hold up the car like a rollbar. They might help a little, but they're gonna collapse. I also don't see hitting the B-pillar with your head as being a very likely scenario (at least, not as probably as hitting a rollbar).

If the car distorts enough to bring the windshield frame into my head, I don't think it's gonna be very solid anymore. If I distort enough to reach the windshield frame with airbags and belts/harnesses worn, I don't think it matters what else happens to me at that point heh.


This confused me for a second with the pronouns. I was the OP and the person you're replying to . It's not that I'm only placing a little emphasis on safety. I'm putting a lot of emphasis on safety in general. I think the part you're mis-interpreting there is: the desire for the rollbar wasn't driven by safety concerns, and I don't want to compromise existing safety just to feel more connected to the car in a harness.

The complete OEM system of seats, belts, bags, body is well-engineered and crash-tested. It's not as safe as being in a caged race car, with harnesses, helmet, and HANS, but the big non-obvious point is that most halfway solutions which aren't completely stock or completely race are actually worse than either of them. Everything is intertwined in the safety systems and it's hard to touch just one aspect of it without screwing up the rest.

The stock roof won't probably hold for jack. In a hard rollover this car's gonna be pancaked to the top edge of the doors like a barless convertible, IMHO. It's be nice if that weren't true, and it might not be true, but I haven't seen any evidence of that (including having stripped out my upper interior and looked at it myself).

The 4-point harnesses I was considering are the Scroth ASM ones: they have a mechanism (like many OEM belts) where an extra loop of harness on one shoulder is folded over on itself and lightly stitched. In a wreck, the light stitching rips out and one shoulder comes forward more than the other, putting a slight twist in the body that greatly reduces the odds of submarining, much like an OEM 3-point does.

The reclineable seat definitely can collapse, agreed; that concern was really the point of starting this thread.

My money is on this getting you killed in a rollover.

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ryan0

What do you think they are designed for? They are the 'roll bar' for a car with out a roll bar.





oops... short attention span... my bad.


Not always true.







I'm sorry... i don't get the point.. to just plant you in the seat better?


I'll take those odds any day.


Google images for 'nissan Z crash'... would you have rather been wearing a good harness and HANS, or only the OEM stuff because you didn't have a roll bar?

sig11

This is pretty much exactly what I've decided to do. I like driving the Z on the street too much to give it up right now.

CG-Locks are AWESOME. Really helps with the left leg fatigue. I've used them since about half way through my first season doing HPDEs.



Glad to read this thread. It sort-of backs up the decisions I made this winter about my car and streetability. I AM still going to toss in race seats and 6pt harnesses with a harness bar though. I figure it's an acceptable risk in my calculations. I actually just sent an email to a local shop I trust to do the install since I don't know that I will have time before my first event.