Rollbar / seats / harness stuff, yet again...

sig11 · 02-15-2012, 02:47 PM

What about the formula style 6 point belts? Have you considered those? I believe they route through with the lap belts but anchor differently.

takjak2 · 02-15-2012, 11:18 PM

I am amazed that no one has suggested locking the 3-point seatbelt. I don't know why many more people don't use this technique to keep themselves planted.

Sit in the car and slide the seat all the way back, buckle your seatbelt, pull the lap belt tight and then the shoulder strap (running you hand from bottom left to right then top left if you're driving), jerk the seatbelt forward to engage the locking mechanism with a quick short motion, lean into the seatbelt to keep tension and slide the seat forward.

Couldn't find a video. If anyone is confused I can whip one up.

sig11 · 02-16-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takjak2

I am amazed that no one has suggested locking the 3-point seatbelt. I don't know why many more people don't use this technique to keep themselves planted.

Works fine if you can slide the seat forward.

I for one am too tall.

CGLocks are way easier to use.

ValidusVentus · 02-17-2012, 11:48 PM

I use that method ^ . Its certainly an improvement over normal when braking and some better when turning.

wstar · 02-23-2012, 11:32 AM

Been reflecting on all of this for several days. Bottom line I'm still not putting the 4-point rollbar in my car immediately. However, in the meta-analysis, while the points about the relative safety of a 4-point rollbar in a mixed-used car are valid, everything's a tradeoff in the end.

Most likely if I decided to take this car off the road before doing the 4-point, I'd do so by buying a cheap used truck for DD to haul parts/tools/wheels around in, but still be driving the car itself to track events. Then the next step would be buying a trailer the truck can haul the car around on. Honestly, any cheap used truck I buy is going to be way down the safety scale from the 370 regardless of whether the 370 happened to have a 4-point rollbar in it.

So really, I'm not saving myself any real safety on the street by putting off the 4-point. I'm still going to buy the truck anyways and drive it anyways, knowing that it's less-safe. It's all relative.

However, having read up more on all the issues with seat-back bracing, sliders, FIA seats, blah blah... I'm inclined now to wait to do the 4-point until I first fix up the seating situation. I'll probably sell the recliners off and pick up some fixed FIA-certified buckets and mount them solidly to the floor, and then do the 4-point with the harness bar at whatever the right height ends up being for my shoulders in those seats.

That and use some of the street-friendlier foam on the bar, and I should be good to go for a reasonable risk tradeoff. There's a couple of SFI-compliant high density foam options which have a softer outer part to help out with the helmetless bit. It's not perfect, but nothing is. e.g. BSCI - Roll Bar Padding | Energy Impact Systems

SPOHN · 02-23-2012, 01:33 PM

I can really tell your struggling with this or as it seems. I know how it is to rack you brain with should I do this should I do that. A lot times I give up and say just do it. But when you hang out with the guys at Forged They usually get me to bite. But all in good hands with a little bit business. Lol.

Im really about to buy a trailer my self. Have to see how the funds work out next month. I already have funds set back for tires and brakes. But I really want a lip kit bad. So tired of looking at the stock lines. And I defiantly have to plan a vacation this year. Didnt take one last year. I'll see how it goes. But I did get a big promotion at work this week. See what that can do for me.

wstar · 02-23-2012, 05:21 PM

Yeah it is a struggle to decide what to do. The only really solid perfect answers are:

1) Buy a brand new nice DD that can tow and is safe, and a trailer, and go to town on the 370, or..
2) De-mod the 370 a bit as a DD and build a cheaper race-car and trailer that.

The first option isn't very possible budgetarily, and the second just doesn't appeal to me. I *like* this car on the track, and I want it to be the track car. So, compromises will ensue, in some form or other

.

RoshDawg · 02-28-2012, 12:23 AM

So after reading this very useful thread I believe I am in the same boat as OP. I too will be getting the Schroth Prof II Anti-SubMarining harness (+ helmet and neck brace) to use with my stock seats as I (for now) will only be visiting the track and autoX events a few time this year.

Not to thread jack but can you use the shoulder harness with the stock 'harness' bar? I have heard from several members here (including Travis) that the stock bar is actually pretty strong.

sig11 · 02-28-2012, 08:49 AM

There is no stock harness bar. The stock brace bar is not safe for mounting harnesses.

wstar · 02-28-2012, 09:57 AM

Yeah that stock bar is relatively well mounted, and probably does some good in terms of lateral chassis stiffening, but I wouldn't trust it as a harness mount at all. The forces from the belts would be going longitudinally, and in that direction it's a pretty weak item. Not suitable for a harness mount (not to mention it's a bit further back from the seat than you'd like. The closer the better on harness lengths).

RoshDawg · 02-28-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig11

There is no stock harness bar. The stock brace bar is not safe for mounting harnesses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

Yeah that stock bar is relatively well mounted, and probably does some good in terms of lateral chassis stiffening, but I wouldn't trust it as a harness mount at all. The forces from the belts would be going longitudinally, and in that direction it's a pretty weak item. Not suitable for a harness mount (not to mention it's a bit further back from the seat than you'd like. The closer the better on harness lengths).

Oh okay good to know. Wstar have you figured out the final plan for what you're going to do for your harness solution yet?

wstar · 02-28-2012, 01:36 PM

Nothing for now. CG-Lock and stock belts

Long Term, the plan that's coming together in my head goes something like this:

1) Swap my reclinable pseudo-racing seats that are on sliders for fixed FIA buckets on solid mounts (bolts to adjust, like the normal ones you see with vertical stripes of bolt holes), which have proper holes for anti-sub straps.

2) *Then* put in a well-designed 4-point rollbar, with the harness bar set at the right height based on where my shoulders end up in the new seats, pad it with something that makes a little more acceptable street-wise but is still SFI-rated (dual-density or orange-aid or something like that), and install 6-point harnesses at the same time. Leave seatbelts in the car for street usage, and be extra careful.

3) When the car gets to the "rides to the track on a trailer" stage, upgrade to a full cage and rip out the seatbelts and the airbag system (well, and lots of other changes, but those are the ones most relevant to everything here).

RoshDawg · 02-28-2012, 06:03 PM

^
That's a good plan! You should make sure that the 4 point rollbar can be easily welding onto a future full cage.

I'm almost considering still getting the 4 point harness and using the stock bar as a harness bar JUST to be more planted into the seat (more than the CG Lock I would assume), while simultaneously wearing the stock belt in case of an accident. A part of me really just wants to be placed in my seat with a harness system.
Or does that just sound stupid?

wstar · 02-28-2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoshDawg

^

I'm almost considering still getting the 4 point harness and using the stock bar as a harness bar JUST to be more planted into the seat (more than the CG Lock I would assume), while simultaneously wearing the stock belt in case of an accident. A part of me really just wants to be placed in my seat with a harness system.
Or does that just sound stupid?

I really couldn't tell you. Might work, might be safe, might be something we're not thinking of in the interaction of the two belt systems. I'm still just not fond of the harness bar concept in general.

martin82 · 02-28-2012, 06:07 PM

any issues with replicating this harness bar? safety etc?

02-15-2012, 11:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
takjak2 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sterling, VA Posts: 1,922 Drives: Legit Racecar 370Z Rep Power: 144	I am amazed that no one has suggested locking the 3-point seatbelt. I don't know why many more people don't use this technique to keep themselves planted. Sit in the car and slide the seat all the way back, buckle your seatbelt, pull the lap belt tight and then the shoulder strap (running you hand from bottom left to right then top left if you're driving), jerk the seatbelt forward to engage the locking mechanism with a quick short motion, lean into the seatbelt to keep tension and slide the seat forward. Couldn't find a video. If anyone is confused I can whip one up. __________________ Mods \| Stuff \| Things \| Seat Time \| Nismo facebook.com/TeamSparrowSpeed

02-17-2012, 11:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
ValidusVentus Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 400 Drives: #18 Z34 Rep Power: 24	I use that method ^ . Its certainly an improvement over normal when braking and some better when turning. __________________ Mods: Dedicated caged track car, lots of things. \|\|\| Valkyrie Autosport \|\|\|

02-23-2012, 11:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3596	Been reflecting on all of this for several days. Bottom line I'm still not putting the 4-point rollbar in my car immediately. However, in the meta-analysis, while the points about the relative safety of a 4-point rollbar in a mixed-used car are valid, everything's a tradeoff in the end. Most likely if I decided to take this car off the road before doing the 4-point, I'd do so by buying a cheap used truck for DD to haul parts/tools/wheels around in, but still be driving the car itself to track events. Then the next step would be buying a trailer the truck can haul the car around on. Honestly, any cheap used truck I buy is going to be way down the safety scale from the 370 regardless of whether the 370 happened to have a 4-point rollbar in it. So really, I'm not saving myself any real safety on the street by putting off the 4-point. I'm still going to buy the truck anyways and drive it anyways, knowing that it's less-safe. It's all relative. However, having read up more on all the issues with seat-back bracing, sliders, FIA seats, blah blah... I'm inclined now to wait to do the 4-point until I first fix up the seating situation. I'll probably sell the recliners off and pick up some fixed FIA-certified buckets and mount them solidly to the floor, and then do the 4-point with the harness bar at whatever the right height ends up being for my shoulders in those seats. That and use some of the street-friendlier foam on the bar, and I should be good to go for a reasonable risk tradeoff. There's a couple of SFI-compliant high density foam options which have a softer outer part to help out with the helmetless bit. It's not perfect, but nothing is. e.g. BSCI - Roll Bar Padding \| Energy Impact Systems __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

02-23-2012, 01:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
SPOHN A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Covington, GA Age: 47 Posts: 14,844 Drives: Waiting on next Z Rep Power: 223	I can really tell your struggling with this or as it seems. I know how it is to rack you brain with should I do this should I do that. A lot times I give up and say just do it. But when you hang out with the guys at Forged They usually get me to bite. But all in good hands with a little bit business. Lol. Im really about to buy a trailer my self. Have to see how the funds work out next month. I already have funds set back for tires and brakes. But I really want a lip kit bad. So tired of looking at the stock lines. And I defiantly have to plan a vacation this year. Didnt take one last year. I'll see how it goes. But I did get a big promotion at work this week. See what that can do for me. __________________

02-23-2012, 05:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3596	Yeah it is a struggle to decide what to do. The only really solid perfect answers are: 1) Buy a brand new nice DD that can tow and is safe, and a trailer, and go to town on the 370, or.. 2) De-mod the 370 a bit as a DD and build a cheaper race-car and trailer that. The first option isn't very possible budgetarily, and the second just doesn't appeal to me. I like this car on the track, and I want it to be the track car. So, compromises will ensue, in some form or other . __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

02-15-2012, 02:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
sig11 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,294 Drives: 09 370Z Red Sport-MT Rep Power: 19	What about the formula style 6 point belts? Have you considered those? I believe they route through with the lap belts but anchor differently.

02-28-2012, 12:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
RoshDawg Track Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: NM / CA Posts: 981 Drives: '13 911 C2S Rep Power: 17	So after reading this very useful thread I believe I am in the same boat as OP. I too will be getting the Schroth Prof II Anti-SubMarining harness (+ helmet and neck brace) to use with my stock seats as I (for now) will only be visiting the track and autoX events a few time this year. Not to thread jack but can you use the shoulder harness with the stock 'harness' bar? I have heard from several members here (including Travis) that the stock bar is actually pretty strong. __________________ \| EVO X MR \| '11 WRX STI \| 370Z SPRT \| 911 (991) C2S \|

02-28-2012, 08:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
sig11 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,294 Drives: 09 370Z Red Sport-MT Rep Power: 19	There is no stock harness bar. The stock brace bar is not safe for mounting harnesses.

02-28-2012, 09:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3596	Yeah that stock bar is relatively well mounted, and probably does some good in terms of lateral chassis stiffening, but I wouldn't trust it as a harness mount at all. The forces from the belts would be going longitudinally, and in that direction it's a pretty weak item. Not suitable for a harness mount (not to mention it's a bit further back from the seat than you'd like. The closer the better on harness lengths). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

02-28-2012, 01:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3596	Nothing for now. CG-Lock and stock belts Long Term, the plan that's coming together in my head goes something like this: 1) Swap my reclinable pseudo-racing seats that are on sliders for fixed FIA buckets on solid mounts (bolts to adjust, like the normal ones you see with vertical stripes of bolt holes), which have proper holes for anti-sub straps. 2) Then put in a well-designed 4-point rollbar, with the harness bar set at the right height based on where my shoulders end up in the new seats, pad it with something that makes a little more acceptable street-wise but is still SFI-rated (dual-density or orange-aid or something like that), and install 6-point harnesses at the same time. Leave seatbelts in the car for street usage, and be extra careful. 3) When the car gets to the "rides to the track on a trailer" stage, upgrade to a full cage and rip out the seatbelts and the airbag system (well, and lots of other changes, but those are the ones most relevant to everything here). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

02-28-2012, 06:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
RoshDawg Track Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: NM / CA Posts: 981 Drives: '13 911 C2S Rep Power: 17	^ That's a good plan! You should make sure that the 4 point rollbar can be easily welding onto a future full cage. I'm almost considering still getting the 4 point harness and using the stock bar as a harness bar JUST to be more planted into the seat (more than the CG Lock I would assume), while simultaneously wearing the stock belt in case of an accident. A part of me really just wants to be placed in my seat with a harness system. Or does that just sound stupid? __________________ \| EVO X MR \| '11 WRX STI \| 370Z SPRT \| 911 (991) C2S \|

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