what's the best way to gain performance driving skill for a beginner?

RCZ

Thats what I was trying to say and Cossie put it into words better than I can. We can all agree that they are two completely different driving styles, just like rallying is completely different, right? I don't think you can argue that. The "kamikaze style" as Cossie calls it is the feeling I get. Even the most experienced auto-x'ers who win all the time, violently toss their cars in and out of corners. Its full attack, fast left rights and tight corners through the slaloms and hairpins. That is very different than the smooth, flowing and high speed world of road courses.

I'm not saying one is less than the other, I'm just saying they are different driving styles. If you were to drive the autox track like a big track and vice versa then you would not be very good. No matter how good you are at auto-x, even if you are national champion, if that is the driving style you've learned, then that's what you're gonna want to do on the track and it simply will not end well at 100+mph.

It is a good bit safer to auto-x first and then take it to a road track...I think that is the right progression...

ResIpsa

Seat time.

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JPotter

ABSOLUTELY!!! Don't get me wrong, re-reading my posts makes me sound like Auto-X is the ONLY way to get experience.

IMO it is the cheapest and easiest - but totally agree driving on the track requires a different style/approach than auto-x.

RCZ

I think there is a place for AutoX and that is to learn how weight transfer affects the balance of your car. Teaches you patience and precision up to a certain point. That is all it does though. Auto-X can be fun, but it is very rough and very different than a real road course. You can always tell who the auto-x'ers are on the track because they make sudden jerky steering inputs and brake inputs. As anyone who has been on a track will tell you, those are both nono's.

If you want to get some experience there is a good path in my opinion. The first thing you do is take a High Performance Driving Class or as its called in some places, a high performance accident avoidance course. They will teach you the basics about breaking and accelerating as well as allow you to safely test the limits of your car. This will also give you a feel for understeer and oversteer and will help you start to get accustomed to responding to it.

After you do that, go to MotorsportReg.com : Online registration management tools for driving and social events and find out which events are going on near you. Sign up for a one day HPDE (High performance driving education) and go to that. They will have an instructor ride along with you in the car and they will teach you everything you need to know.

JPotter

Fixed it. You have to watch out for those that don't know any better. Personally, I've never met an auto-x driver that is jerking the car around @ speed. They shouldn't be on a track if they don't know any better.

Jerky inputs are also a no-no for auto-x. Inexperienced drivers may feel that jerky inputs are faster (you may feel a higher initial G spike, but the jerky inputs will bring you average G holding down vs. smooth inputs). I used to do the same - but never on a track.

That is one of the first things an advanced course such as EVO school will teach you.

But that is also why some Auto-X'er never get beyond mediocre drivers, and watch out if you are seeing these drivers try to bring that to the track, which like you say is a no no. They must not know any better.

But not all auto-x drivers have bad track habits. Thanks to Auto-X, road tracks feel like slow motion to me because I'm used to the faster pace of Auto-X.

travisjb

anyone notice that we are almost at 20 posts of giving the OP feedback / debating with each other and he/she is nowhere to be found! lol

I agree with:

- seat time
- autocross, DE, drivers schools... all fine places to start
- autocross is perhaps the best for reasons stated, but nothing wrong with jumping into a few DEs early on as well... mix it up!
- video games have limited utility, but I think can be a nice supplement to someone that has ALREADY LEARNED to drive properly on the track in real life... otherwise more likely to reinforce bad habits

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cossie1600

video game is different than simulation.

370Zsteve

Here's what I did, at Le Circuit Mont Tremblant

Racing School :: Corporate Entertainment :: Jim Russell Racing Drivers School :: Racing School and Driving Instruction :: Jim Russell Racing Drivers School

Back when I went, it was Formula Ford

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travisjb

i realize that 'video game' can be derogatory to a serious 'simulation' and i'm a user / fan of both... but i stand by my statement that in either case, a newb is better off getting real seat time *then* using simulations (and even video games like NFSS) to supplement

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cossie1600

I completely disagree with you as I am a byproduct of way too much simulation. It didn't turn me into Michael Schumacher, but it sure put me in a better spot than most of the drivers that are on track with me.

Scott @ RA

OP, if you are still around...... There is actually some decent advise buried in some of these posts if you look hard enough.

I have a feeling some of the... Uumm "drivers" in this thread may have scared off the OP.

travisjb

fine to disagree... and i suspect you prob have natural talent and would have developed just as fast or faster if you had spent a fraction of that sim time on the track... the question is what would you recommend to someone not = you?

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cossie1600

I don't know about natural talent, just a lot of luck and practice.

Sim isn't for everyone, but it is a tool that definitely can't hurt. I always say simulation taught me the basics of driving and racing, autox taught me the real car control and therefore the race track is just a place for me to put everything together and utilize everything I learned.

Pharmacist

so it seems the consensus here for the majority is that auto x is a good start, after some experience, get some DE courses, and finally go to open lapping after I am comfortable with the experience. what about go karts? as for video games, i played some of them, and they really don't feel at all like real driving. they still feel like video games.

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ChrisSlicks

Sounds good. Go karts are fun but pretty useless for learning to drive a car. Their grip to weight ratio is much higher than a car, and the weight is rear biased.

Video games are useless, driving sims are a tool. Driving sims are useful especially in that auto-x to track transition, they teach you about the racing line, braking zones etc. It will also impress your instructor if you can show up to a track and already have a good feel for the racing line, which the instructor can help you fine tune. Driving sims currently only exist on the PC, and you need a quality force feedback wheel and pedal set. Iracing's catalog of local tracks is gradually growing. If I'm going to do a track day I usually check to see if they have it and will do practice laps to familiarize myself before heading out. Although there is no substitute for real seat time with an instructor.

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