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Formula-1 2017...!!

Originally Posted by alcheng .... a lot of fans are asking to bring back the NA V10 or even V12. Pretty sure they will not bring back the NA, but

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Old 10-12-2017, 01:06 PM   #241 (permalink)
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.... a lot of fans are asking to bring back the NA V10 or even V12.

Pretty sure they will not bring back the NA, but do you guys feel the current PU is too costly and too complicated ?
Efficiency cost money to do it right. I'd personally like to see open engine options like in the past. v6th, v8h, v10 n/a. each with different weight penalties.

Unquestionably most teams will still choose the v6th. With more privateers opting for a more reliable n/a engine. An n/a alternative would bring several companies back in to the sport. BMW, Cosworth, VAG...

The v6th is for sure the most expensive and most complicated engine, but the level of efficiency is unmatched for the performance. In only 4 years of the formula it has already surpassed the performance of the best v10 engines with TC and less weight. It took almost 10 years of v10 development to reach its pinnacle. Granted there was a significant technological boom on going during its evolution. I don't see how much more power can be extracted from n/a engines. Having a v8 or v10 turbo hybrid would weigh too much and cost even more.

I think however the promoters should televise historical gp car racing, and have more drivers be able to race the older cars on shorter sessions. Like 15-25 laps. Teams already using the old chassis for promotional work.

This would cost a lot of money though to have multiple races with multiple cars per team.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:10 PM   #242 (permalink)
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Advancing technology and pushing the envelope is costly. The current PU and chassis makes them faster so I doubt they'll go back to NA. I wouldn't want them to go back.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:31 PM   #243 (permalink)
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When LH had bad luck with a motor he suffered for not working hard and driving smarter to make his luck/situation better.
Motors... plural. he had multiple motor failures. Let's not also forget the dirty tricks Rosberg attempted to keep Lewis from winning... Spain, Austria.... yea.
Let's not also forget Rosberg had zero response for Hamilton on the wet races, or anyone else for that matter. Getting beat by Hulkenberg at Monaco. Rosberg is not a champion like the Rest. 90% gifted his title last year. However i think it was good for the team and the sport. Having one driver dominate the team and the sport is demoralizing for everyone. It also made for an interesting season on and off the track.

Watching Vettel win 4 straight seasons was absolutely boring for a lot of people, certainly at the end of 2013 when he just walked away with the championship. I didn't even bother waking up early to watch the last races.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:49 PM   #244 (permalink)
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Lol, if Rosberg is so much better why did he quit after winning the championship? Makes no sense as every other champion wants to defend their championship or win a second one to prove that it was not fluke. Rosberg knew he was not number 1 and took his ball and went home! He won the championship but he is and never will be the driver Hamilton, Vettel, or Alonzo are period!

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He quit after achieving his goal. Drivers leave F1. After 2 years or 10. This is most certainly not news. He is a WDC period. Do you realize how long he had been in F1. Nico did what he wanted with his life. That is what life is about. I dont see him leaning on F1 the way some drivers do like Kimi. The ultimate one title waste of time. His last win was when??????????

I never said Nico was better but last year he drover smarter and worked harder. Do you know how much karting he was doing after races and even before the season to refine his race -craft? Thats called working to win. LH is doing alot of what Nico did last year. Too bad he wasnt in 2016. Lauda blamed him for Spain and bluntly. Simple fact is LH didnt make his luck when he needed it. Considering the gap Bottas has to LH it makes it more apparent how good Nico was. Nico had his own share of bad luck and unreliability and he got it right, won the title and left on top. What the fk is that ....failure??
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:05 PM   #245 (permalink)
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Motors... plural. he had multiple motor failures. Let's not also forget the dirty tricks Rosberg attempted to keep Lewis from winning... Spain, Austria.... yea.
Let's not also forget Rosberg had zero response for Hamilton on the wet races, or anyone else for that matter. Getting beat by Hulkenberg at Monaco. Rosberg is not a champion like the Rest. 90% gifted his title last year. However i think it was good for the team and the sport. Having one driver dominate the team and the sport is demoralizing for everyone. It also made for an interesting season on and off the track.

Watching Vettel win 4 straight seasons was absolutely boring for a lot of people, certainly at the end of 2013 when he just walked away with the championship. I didn't even bother waking up early to watch the last races.
Nico was in the car driving it. He won. Thats makes him a WDC. Same as all other winners. Gifted title would the choke of the century when Mclaren gifted the title to Kimi. Thats the real joke WDC on the grid. Nico never backed down and LH knew he had his hands full with him. Give credit where its due. Id like to see anyone on this forum say to his face he is not a WDC.

Beyond stupid it would be. Id take Nico over many of the drivers on the grid. He is beyond smart. Speaks 4+ languages and scored the highest ever on the Williams engineering test when he joined F1. Yea, Nico is not a confident or capable driver LOL. What part of not winning did he fail at. He won by beating LH in the same car on the same tracks. Shite fails on cars. Sometimes good for you, sometimes not but he didnt quit until he achieved his goal. Thats life. Either you succeed or not.

Hulk......please the epitome of journeyman. He can hang out with Heidfeld. I have the address. How many wins does Hulk have or even podiums LOL. Whatever.....Nico played well against MS as well. Yep Nico is just another F1 driver LOL......
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:23 PM   #246 (permalink)
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Lauda opens up on Rosberg/Hamilton relationship

Niki knows nothing about struggle in F1 either I guess LOL.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:38 PM   #247 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DLSTR View Post
He quit after achieving his goal. Drivers leave F1. After 2 years or 10. This is most certainly not news. He is a WDC period. Do you realize how long he had been in F1. Nico did what he wanted with his life. That is what life is about. I dont see him leaning on F1 the way some drivers do like Kimi. The ultimate one title waste of time. His last win was when??????????

I never said Nico was better but last year he drover smarter and worked harder. Do you know how much karting he was doing after races and even before the season to refine his race -craft? Thats called working to win. LH is doing alot of what Nico did last year. Too bad he wasnt in 2016. Lauda blamed him for Spain and bluntly. Simple fact is LH didnt make his luck when he needed it. Considering the gap Bottas has to LH it makes it more apparent how good Nico was. Nico had his own share of bad luck and unreliability and he got it right, won the title and left on top. What the fk is that ....failure??
Obviously you are a Nico fan and that is cool and you don't have to take my comments so personal. He is a world champion and I don't know anything about his life goals. Maybe it was something he needed to do because it was his daddy's dream and not his? I really doesn't matter because he is yesterday's news and unlike Kimi he is no longer relevant. If Nico comes back we can carry on the discussion. Cheers Mate!

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Old 10-12-2017, 02:52 PM   #248 (permalink)
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Lauda opens up on Rosberg/Hamilton relationship

Niki knows nothing about struggle in F1 either I guess LOL.

He is old and he might sound stupid at some point nowadays, but Niki Lauda knows how to drive an F1 car, how to build up an F1 team and how politics work in F1 better than anyone.


He went to Ferrari when the team was struggling badly at that time and than he took WDC with Ferrari.

When he won his 3rd and last WDC with McLaren in 1984, he knew he just need to finish 3rd to take the tittle even if Prost wins the race, thus when he was up in 3rd, he started cruising, even let the slower cars un-lap him, that year, he took the WDC by a 0.5 point advantage.

In 1985, where Ron Dennis said they want to put Prost as the 1st driver and have Lauda to support Prost, Lauda refused and told Ron he will drive in his own term. That year, McLaren favorite Prost a big time, where Prost took the WDC and Lauda was down the table nowhere, that's when Lauda retired.

He is old and maybe arrogant, but he is very very smart.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:00 PM   #249 (permalink)
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He is old and he might sound stupid at some point nowadays, but Niki Lauda knows how to drive an F1 car, how to build up an F1 team and how politics work in F1 better than anyone.


He went to Ferrari when the team was struggling badly at that time and than he took WDC with Ferrari.

When he won his 3rd and last WDC with McLaren in 1984, he knew he just need to finish 3rd to take the tittle even if Prost wins the race, thus when he was up in 3rd, he started cruising, even let the slower cars un-lap him, that year, he took the WDC by a 0.5 point advantage.

In 1985, where Ron Dennis said they want to put Prost as the 1st driver and have Lauda to support Prost, Lauda refused and told Ron he will drive in his own term. That year, McLaren favorite Prost a big time, where Prost took the WDC and Lauda was down the table nowhere, that's when Lauda retired.

He is old and maybe arrogant, but he is very very smart.
He had a thankless job managing Nico and LH. He did the best he could and holds nothing back. I like Niki alot and its fun to hear him assess issues in F1.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:23 PM   #250 (permalink)
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He had a thankless job managing Nico and LH. He did the best he could and holds nothing back. I like Niki alot and its fun to hear him assess issues in F1.

I think it's very similar to Vettel + Webber, or, the toughest one I bet is that year when McLaren had Alonso and Hamilton.


I think, though, rosberg is easier to handle than hamilton.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:29 PM   #251 (permalink)
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Hulk......please the epitome of journeyman. He can hang out with Heidfeld. I have the address. How many wins does Hulk have or even podiums LOL. Whatever....
Doesn't this point make it even more laughable that Rosberg is a champion? Being beat by a "journeymen". why is it that he needs to go train in karting as a current f1 driver? Perfect his race craft? Lol he's had as much time as Hamilton if not more to perfect his driving coming up the ranks. Him needing additional training is laughable just so he can win one championship and quit.

And i don't see how Lauda's opinions mean anything. His role as as a manager is as glorified as Trump being president now. It's a thankless job because he offers absolutely nothing to the overall sucess of a race weekend. He's not a drivers coach nor is he a race engineer. So what if blames LH for the crash in spain. Everyone watching the disaster can clearly see who caused the incident. Just as we could in Austria. Its funny how you don't have an opinion on that incident.

Nico hanging along with Schumacher? Lol what a joke. Hamilton came along and outraced him handedly for 3 straight seasons before he could even challenge him with the help of the team.

I'm not getting wrapped up in this useless argument about a quitter who may never return to the sport. We can agree to disagree.

Thank you alcheng for trying to shift the topic to something better such as new tech and engine changes for the future.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:50 PM   #252 (permalink)
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I like complicated because it really allows the top teams to shine when they build right. But costly means that teams with more money have an inherent advantage, which I'm not a fan of at all.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:05 PM   #253 (permalink)
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Just for argument sake do ya think that a NA V10 could compete given the aero of today? Aero seems to be as important as the PU and can level the playing field depending on the track.

I don't think NA PU can make the need mpg to finish a race even with aero consideration.

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Old 10-13-2017, 12:23 AM   #254 (permalink)
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Just for argument sake do ya think that a NA V10 could compete given the aero of today? Aero seems to be as important as the PU and can level the playing field depending on the track.

I don't think NA PU can make the need mpg to finish a race even with aero consideration.

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With weight penalties as a BOP, i think it could. But the v6th makes about 400ft/ib of torque more throughout the rev range and over 150hp, and this is back from 2014/5 studies. The offset in weight penalties would need to be in excess of 300ibs. There are to many variables to say.

I think it will be a case where some cars have the advantage at certain tracks. The turbo hybrids at the faster tracks. And the n/a lighter cars at the tighter tracks. This would make for a great spectacle.

For argument sake, i wish some team would just try the options with the current chassis format. We don't even truly know which chassis was the best because there has been so many formula changes and track changes that render the track record statistics almost incomparable..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs8P...yqw-ZIvz31zFvo

Here is probably the most consistent comparison thus far. Then on top of this, the 2017 car was 2.6 seconds faster! However the 2016 cars are still the fastest F1 cars in a straight line.

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Old 10-13-2017, 12:54 AM   #255 (permalink)
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Doesn't this point make it even more laughable that Rosberg is a champion? Being beat by a "journeymen". why is it that he needs to go train in karting as a current f1 driver? Perfect his race craft? Lol he's had as much time as Hamilton if not more to perfect his driving coming up the ranks. Him needing additional training is laughable just so he can win one championship and quit.

And i don't see how Lauda's opinions mean anything. His role as as a manager is as glorified as Trump being president now. It's a thankless job because he offers absolutely nothing to the overall sucess of a race weekend. He's not a drivers coach nor is he a race engineer. So what if blames LH for the crash in spain. Everyone watching the disaster can clearly see who caused the incident. Just as we could in Austria. Its funny how you don't have an opinion on that incident.



Nico hanging along with Schumacher? Lol what a joke. Hamilton came along and outraced him handedly for 3 straight seasons before he could even challenge him with the help of the team.

I'm not getting wrapped up in this useless argument about a quitter who may never return to the sport. We can agree to disagree.

Thank you alcheng for trying to shift the topic to something better such as new tech and engine changes for the future.
LH was beat. Nico won. He drove to win. I guess thats not good enough since you simply dont like him LOL. Im amazed as the reference to Hulk LOL. He has done what?

I dont like any one driver over another, but Im not dumb or blind enough to say a driver making the effort isnt good enough or doesnt rate the title.

Quitter. All driver leave the sport. Another rather ridiculous point. Say you simply dont like Nico and it might give you some credibility.

What we see this year is what we saw last year. Vettel having issues and LH making his own luck to win a title in a car that is in fact less capable in general than the Ferrari. Should I say LH is not worthy since its Vettel's mistakes and car issues really helping LH?

Seriously seek help or post elsewhere. If you want a discussion start by being rational. Bias and blatant ignorance dont make a good argument. Useless rather describes your points well.
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