Why is Ford doing more than Nissan?

UNKNOWN_370

I gotta agree with that part.

Shamu

All I see here are bunch Ford lov'n of Nissan haters. Nissan is doing great stuff - way more innovative than Ford. Let me know when ford comes out with independent suspension 2 seat sports car.

So when Nissan unveils new 2 seater what's Fords response? 350 Hp fwd econoboost? Rolf

Guess you all missed the Nismo announcement too?

__________________
Grant

daisuke149

2 seater sports car with independent rear suspension is a sign of a companies progress??

news to me.

Also NISMO's announcement should have just been a letter they sent to a news paper... nothing big.

nuTinmuch

If I was buying a car today all I can tell you is that I wouldn't be visiting a Nissan showroom. That isn't because they don't make good cars, it's because as of right now they are behind the competition.

What do you think is so innovative about Nissan? I'm curious. The GT-R? Because the Evo X is basically technologically identical. The Leaf? Because while I don't have the same hate everyone else does for electric cars, it isn't exactly a leap forward in technology (if it was you'd see more of them on the road).

Likewise, I don't give two ***** about a car being a true "sports car." I don't care. I don't care at all. And really, the reality is that anyone who trashes a car for the sole reason of "it isn't a TRUE sports car" is... well, the nicest thing I can say is silly.

All I care about is fun. What car offers me fun? If I walk into a Ford showroom I can find cars that I can afford that are fun.

If I walk into a Nissan showroom I can find fun, too. But I can't afford it or it is outdated.

Also -- I don't get this racing legacy talk. What does it matter? If we are comparing Nissan and Ford, then Ford likely even wins there.

__________________
nuTinmuch! -- Platinum Graphite 370Z -- Check out my Gallery thread here!

SS_Firehawk

Explain to me "behind the competition"? Last time I checked, getting 38mpg on a 2.5L gas engine is pretty good. And amongst the 4 cylinder mid size, it's been tested to be the fastest along with the Accord. VVEL is still a technological marvel few companies can produce. Getting something like that to operate effectively at 7500rpm is impressive. 350hp from a 3.7 liter engine without the use of direct injection is also unheard of. Sure Porsche engines of similar displacement are pushing 400hp, but again, $80k+ and direct injection. The car wasn't made to compete with the Mustangs and Camaro's in the world, it was the Cayman S. The only thing comparable is the price range. The Juke is selling damn well, they created that market. Your comment about the Evo X having the same tech as the GTR is crap. Last time I checked, the Evo dual clutch tranny didn't last long when power was boosted. the AWD systems are similar, but I would still venture to say that Nissan's electronic diffs react much faster. Aero on the GTR is in a league of it's own, and how is it the GTR achieves similar mpg and makes 250 more hp? 500hp EVO's have been tested against the GTR, they lost. The Leaf, I don't care for, but it's been around longer than any other full electric car. First to market also means first to age. The Titan and Armada are laughable compared to competition, but the Frontier is still competitive with the Tacoma. Outside of that, there aren't any small truck options. Pathfinder is brand new, it's gotten good reviews. Engine is a bit long in the tooth though. The Quest is a good Minivan, but ugly as sin and massive. The Versa is terrible looking, but I wouldn't say it's a bad car, consumers agree, and they are buying them. They do get 40mpg. Sentra gets 39, it's refreshed, again, it wasn't considered crap when reviewed. There are things about Nissan that need updated. V6's do need refreshed, but they are still competitive. The Maxima faired well in it's last comparo and the only things they really complained about was rear seat space and trunk space.

Ford has it's sour apples. The Flex and the Expedition come to mind. The Taurus doesn't sell all that well and the entire Lincoln brand is a sinking ship they are finally trying to save. They made the 13' GT500, an engine so under matched by it's chassis and tires that are woefully inadequate. Last time I looked, it was owned repeatedly by the ZL1, the car it was supposed to stomp to the ground. Their super special Boss got it's @ss handed by the Camaro 1LE at VIR. A car that is 200lbs heavier, longer gearing, and less horsepower.

I can go on and on about each car manufacturer and their issues. I do not believe you are correct when you say Nissan as a company is "behind the competition".

__________________

nuTinmuch

You entirely misread what I had to say. Try again:

Perhaps I should've added "for me" at the end to emphasize I was speaking for myself.

As has been repeated many times in this thread -- yes, the Altima is a good car. It is impressive. But it is not a car I would buy as it is not a segment I am interested in.

But -- even past that -- I don't see how it is innovative. That 38mpg number is nice, but is it really outside of the ballpark of what other manufacturers are giving on their brand new sedans? The Camry is 25/35, the Fusion 22/34 (with 47/47 possible in the hybrid), the Accord is 27/37, and the Optima is 25/35. This makes the Altima a class leader, but if we're realistic all of these numbers will be within +/-1 of each other in the real world. Is this innovation?

The argument that "the Z wasn't made to compete with X" is ********. Who cares? When I drove the Z I wasn't comparing it to a Porsche. I can't afford a Porsche. I was comparing it to the Camaro, Mustang, Evo, STi, 135i, 335i, Genesis Coupe, etc.

The only comparison in the real world (for me) is price. If it costs X, I'm comparing it to other cars that cost X.

Which brings me to...

You missed the point, sort of. My point wasn't that they are comparable performance wise, but that the GT-R's innovations 5 years ago aren't enough to sustain the entire company. Some people in this thread just shout "GT-R!" whenever Nissan is challenged. Yes, yes, the GT-R is awesome. It is my favorite car. I want one. I want five. But who cares? The GT-R isn't what makes Nissan who they are.

Also, yes, Ford does have its bad apples... but let's be realistic -- most are holdovers from their darker days. Likewise, the Boss was beaten -- but it was beaten by a car that was released and developed a year after it was. The 5.0 GT also stomped on the Camaro -- but it also had quite some time to do so. I mean, duh. That's how the pony wars between Chevy and Ford work.

This is purely my opinion... but you're insane. If money was no object and I wanted a car to cruise in, I'd buy a Challenger in a heartbeat. That car is gorgeous.

The new Corvette is gorgeous. The Camaro was an aesthetic darling for a while. The new Chevy line is handsome (the Impala looks pretty good, imo -- as is the Cruze).

The CTS-V sedan and wagon are incredible looking -- the CTS (and ATS) are two of my favorite modern cars purely because of their aesthetics.

There really is no winning in this discussion, though. I think a lot of people are reading my posts as if I'm some huge Ford fanboy. I've never even owned a Ford, nor has anyone in my immediate family. I just think Nissan could be doing a better job -- and I also think that a lot of people in this thread (and forum) have blinders on when it comes to Nissan.

__________________
nuTinmuch! -- Platinum Graphite 370Z -- Check out my Gallery thread here!

Haboob

Definitely, it's all down to opinion, as I don't really care for the older cars, which means I don't care for the retro look on the newer cars nor do I like their incorporation into the new 'Vette.

The Challenger and Charger are boats, for me (Charger has gotten smaller in recent years).

Either way, Ford is doing well putting more (and better) technology in their cars (as far as in-cabin toys and such).

I'm pissed that I paid almost $40k for a car and can't even get a USB port, yet other $27k vehicles have bluetooth, USB, heated seats (cloth), etc.

Rooster89

If the charger came with a stick, I'd work the corner for one. I loved driving the new srt8. a car that big yet drives smaller. plus that 6.4 is amazing. and i know it is truly superfluous but even the cupholders have heating and cooling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just saying

__________________
OG3
Diligentia Vis Celeritas

Haboob

Styling is what sets them apart.

Ford (and all of the other American companies) lack in artistic capabilities - proven by their "retro" designs of their most popular cars.

Are you seriously marketing your higher-end cars to an older crowd? You're going to lose your fan base quickly.

The new Mustang body style is awful, and don't even get me started on the interior.

Same with the Camaro, Charger, and Challenger. Do they perform? Probably, but I wouldn't be caught dead in any one of them due to their ugly looks. Even the CTS-V Coupe has an ugly rear-end.

There isn't anything out there that compares to the Z's styling in or below it's price bracket - The Genesis Coupe is the closest.

As for legacy, Ford doesn't have much of one outside of NASCAR and post-GT40 era (and Australia). It's all been the other manufacturers (Dodge and Chevy) in the LeMans circuit, Daytona, etc.

UNKNOWN_370

You just contradicted yourself in one post...

the z is probably the most fun of the batch of cars you're bangin on about. (Mustang,Camaro,) Minus the Evo, that fun factor is crazy.


If all you care about is fun, the Z is gonna be on top. The stang is a track god but feels numb and is kinda boring when you factor in, seat position, steering feel, cornering and the overall sense of engaging to drive. Power is the major factor of being a winner. And if someone brings up that weak azz track pack again I'm gonna The Z is much more engaging. The Mustang is just winning on tracks. (Boss302 changes that but everyone svcks 5.0 c0ck for being something overall it's NOT). I'll give Ford props for the little computer accelerometer etc... Great track performance and an incredible powerful engine. But there are so many factors to the driving experience the Z can fill that Stang can't. And to deny this is fanboy...

Deep down inside what it really boils down to is that the mustang is the fastest on the block under $40k and some ego's are hurt they don't have the fastest car. But handling wise, quality and technology wise, the Mustang is still the inferior car. And remember, The Z compares in performance to a v6 and in price to a v8. They give you way more quality in structural design and the VQ 37 has tech advance firsts the 5.0 doesn't. The Z is the compromise car. There is NO Comparison. GEt OVER IT. NISSAN slated us an AFFORDABLE porsche fighter. Not a competitive mustang fighter. Can the mustang beat the cayman around the track? Most likely yes. AND??????????????????
You Make The Conscious Decision Of buying a 370Z to be an individual who appreciates UNIQUE performance atrributes or YOU BUY a mustang based on the muscle power wars and who has the biggest Car C0ck.(mustang, camaro or challenger) Thats's all there is and nothing more.

There are things to complain about the Z. But your post is contradictory to everything we're really discussing. a lot of what this post was about was the lack of tech innovation and OVERALL SPORTY entries from Nissan

Where is the Sentra SE-R?
What will happen to the altima coupe?
Why will the Z be a BRZ fighter instead of carrying the tradition of Cayman stopper?

Cars like the Focus St, upcoming Fiesta ST, the current mustang and the new focus show that they are injecting fun to their cars. Nissan, who was always the leader of injecting fun into cars (along with mazda) are slowing that down with current entries. At least it seems that way. That's the real Argument.

I agree, i wouldn't buy a Z right now if i was buying for strrictly performance. I'd buy a camaro !LE, because the suspension tuning on that car gives more feedback than our current Z. Really? A camaro? lol YES a Camaro. The track pack GT? Ancient history. It's outdated. The Boss 302 is the stang leader. Hmmm? Can you affrd it? Probably not? Which brings you back to 37k for a SS1LE or a Z. for $39k. I'll take the 1LE. If the Z was $35k from the 1Le, i'd choose the Z. BUT I'm looking at it from behind the wheel.

There's so many ways to look at a car purchase. Problem we have here is when we cross reasons for buying. Don't say you're all about fun and bring up tech issues in the cockpit. That's highly contradictory.