Yeah, the trend has been spiraling downward. Back then The corvette had true middle class pricing. Corvette is now leaning toward upper middle class and quality is ramped up drastically. More than its ever been. I give them like 35,000 units year one. Then 15,000 the next. Then they'll jump between 10,000-13,000 units every year till the C8.

Most car companies selling sports car would die for 10K / year.

The uptick in price for the C7 is only $1400 over the C6 for the base model. If you look at vette prices vs. average income, I wouldn't be surprised to see that it's actually dropped in relative price over the years.

The biggest price hike was during the C4 era, the price rose 63% in a 10 year span from 1984 to 1994. The original base price was $22K, finished at $36K.

Modest 24% price rise over 8 years for the C5.

The C6 base price held pricing very steady over the 9 years, likely in response to declining sales numbers and tough economy for sports cars.

Does anyone know if the 370z's lighting lap time was done with an oil cooler in the car?

Yes, they added a cooler. No way you're running VIR without one.

I don't remember where I saw that Nissan was targeting Porsche Cayman's performance with the 370z. Just as they did with the GTR beating the 911 turbo.

Still there's a huge performance gap


.

It was R&T who directly pinned the Z against the Cayman. They were basically tied for performance on the track they used. The porsche was more graceful in it's track performance though.

The porsche is a MR and the Z is FR/midship. The porsche cayman on certain tracks will exceed the Z and on others it will be a drivers race where the Z may win. Straight line speed the Z has shown to be mildly faster but carries a lower top speed.

Nissan Z has always competed with the Porsche as far as road feel, design, and performance. Porsche is of course more refined with better feel, but at 2x the price. That's where the whole "poor man's Porsche" came from. That's why these times don't make too much sense. The difference between the 370Z and cayman should of been much closer.

If you've ever driven the two... it's very obvious which car is better... by far. But it's double the freakin' price.

MR is just more balanced. The Z takes more skill to achieve what the Porsche can. You really gotta become one with the Z. The porsche is effortless driving. Better is subjective to your driving expectations. MR puts up less of a fight, like AWD/FR does. So criticisms of whats better can go on all day if you're driving expectations are high, low, moderate etc

But the Porsche undoubtedly has a more refined engine and a more balanced chassis, not to mention a better feeling shifter.
The Z feels more aggressive under load, is more fun and leaves a lot less room for error., The porsche is a sword and the Z is a hatchet. But with one swing of both, you can cut anything in half.

I contend that the Z doesn't quite achieve what the Cayman can. It's not that it takes more skill to drive... it just doesn't match it. Period. You have a (relatively) heavy, front-biased car vs. a lighter and much better balanced car.

But again... $30k premium.

Price goes up with everything else.

Look at the price of a car in the 70's... now look average income.

Stop making me want a Cayman, Steve. :mad:

Awesome car... Just too expensive IMO. For the price of a new one I would rather have the c7.

I did research some CPO models but even still they were a bit more pricy than a new Z even with quite a few miles on them.

It's just one of those cars I love but would never actually buy because it doesn't present itself as a very good value relative to what else is on the market.

This says it better than words can:
http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/up...udi-BMW-02.jpg

I own both and I know why they aren't closer.............I love the 370 Z Sport but it doesn't handle like the Cayman S. Yes in a straight line its faster (on the lower end, but not by much at all) but once you hit the twisties they can not even be compared.

:iagree:

Contributed to the MR platform.

I'd love to have one... If I was a Porsche mechanic. ;)

I think they're SOMEWHAT reasonably priced used from what I recall but the maintenance costs and price of parts would be the issue for me.

I think since R&T published this comparison, people (myself included) had the idea that the performance difference between 370z and Caymans is really short.

It may look weird that 370z's time is nearly 3 seconds slower than Cayman's

But I don't think Nissan could have improved the 350z that much as for having a big difference between the 370z and the 350z.

This^ The one thing I will say is in the twisties the Z is more fun as you really HAVE to drive it.

Last night when we went out and the wife was driving the Porsche, she kept saying that the Z is raw and the Porsche refined, pretty much like you stated. She won't let me get rid of the Z though nor would I want to. For the money, and cost of upkeep you can't beat a Z. (Edit: and the fun factor! The Z is a blast to drive)

I agree for the most part. The Z tends to drive more like a muscle car than a lot of people care to admit. You have to wrestle with it which is always fun.

Why don't we compare 2013 Cayman to 2013 370z :shakes head:

Hahaha...not even on the same planet!

In what sense?

2013 Cayman is a big step up. Practically a brand new car for 2013 while the Z has stayed mostly the same. The Cayman entered a new performance envelope so you can't really compare them like in years past.

And this is most likely why Nissan is taking an extra year to develop the Z35. To make a proper yet, attainable Cayman fighter...














I hope? :ughdance:

I agree it handles Muscle-car'ish, but the Z still feels way more precise and it's chassis supports that feeling. Like stated a million times before. The z is a jack of all trades a master of none. It's 8/10's precision, 8/10's muscle, 9/10'ths GT. No other car is like this. There are 10/10th cars that can't fit the multi-role like the Z. Most people have a one-track mind and need wish for 10/10th cars. The Z isn't such which leaves it a low selling car for a small market.

Thank you Nissan for thinking about a small special market. But the Z34 was not updated as needed. Just hoping the Z35 gets all the attention the Z34 didn't get.

:iagree:


If the 370z couldn't keep up with the 2008 cayman, I think there is an even wider gap between a 370z and a 2013 cayman

wonder what ideas Nissan has in mind for the z35. I don't expect a big improvement.

They can't handle cooling issues while staying on a budget, therefore turbocharging is far from being the solution. Maybe the only way they can improve the z is with a serious weight reduction

.

It was stated well over a year ago the next gen Z will be much lighter and leaner. So expect in the 300lb reduction arena. The 2012+ Z's received a moderate cooling improvement. I expect to see cooling improvements in the next gen.
Also, if the Z gets a smaller displacement and a larger bay? Cooling will come much easier to attain. Also, if they go turbo? I'm sure there will be engineering for better cooling. The GT-R doesn't have a cooling problem so i wouldn't expect to see the next gen Z with one. I don't forsee Nissan going ror more criticism on the Z. Mr. K complained and i think Nissan listened to him.

Remember: Porsche got a complete redesign in 2013. We got DRL's woohoo!!!! Expect to see a competitive car in 2015. It's not realistic to compare last gen tech to new gen objectively.

1st gen Cayman came out in 2005, so everyone was comparing a 2009 car to a 2005?

1. They were comparing it to the 2008 which had updates in 2008,
2. Then in 2010, it went from 6 speed auto to PDK transmission.
3. The nissan to porsche redesign cycle is 3 years apart. Our redesign happens during there refresh. Actually, Porsche does things annual/2yr with some type of significance. Nissan doesn't.

For a car thats $30,000 more than the Z. Its fair to judge a 2008, cayman refresh to a 2009 Z redesign. Don't misinform to prove a borderline fanboy point.

i think one interesting thing to note from the data sheet is the noise levels between the two, funny how many people and reviewers moan and groan about the Z being noisy on the inside when the freakin cayman in their test is just as noisy and even noisier in some situations lol

Noise levels had to be the stupidest major complaint of the Z. Completely normal for a dedicated sports car platform. No offense to the sound deadening crew. To each his own, but to make it a topic in sports car reviews is insanely retarded.
Any real sports car's charm is NOT having a quiet interior. Tire roar can be a little annoying, but the engine being harsh is ridiculous. Review only Cadillac if they want quiet engines. Speaking of which, The ATS turbo has a loud azz bov/wastegate for a luxury sedan. I wouldn't complain about it but, by reviewers standards... Why aren't they bytchin' bout the loud azz ATS 2.0 Turbo?

There's definitely a double-standard in this country for JDM sports cars.

It's all about the quality of the noise, rather than the raw volume.

It has nothing to do with country of origin--if anything Japanese cars get favorable treatment in nvh commentary (s2000, the whole Lexus line). The Z just happens to have a lot of less-pleasant noises (and a terrible stock tire)

Some people can't handle raw. I like raw... Raw and Real rather than fake and synthesized.

Raw means different things to different people.

I don't mind a raw experience if the whole car is raw, but I don't want a dead silent exhaust and a ton of insulation up front alongside diff whine and tire noise.

Tire noise can be fixed. Diff whine??? I don't have that or don't hear it? And you don't drive a Z so you don't have to deal with it. Owners will tend to find it less of an issue. That's why we haven't traded.:tiphat:

I never really cared about the noise, but then again I was coming from a convertible with an exhaust that sounded like the space shuttle, that rattled like a tool chest on a shaker table.


I'm simply making the point that the NVH in the Z is unpleasant to many, which is why it's a discussion point. It's not really any louder than most comparable cars, it's just a different type of noise.

The Z noise is far from "raw." I'd recommend hopping in the roadster of your choice for that experience--you'll find the noise to correlate more closely with what the car is doing. Hell, even the Cayman manages to do a good job of providing audio feedback.

The good news is, audio quality is low on the list of most potential shoppers, and exhaust and stereo pretty quickly get things into a better place on that front.