Ft-86 Prototype II

kenchan · 03-08-2011, 06:28 PM

the issue is the power to weight is about wat my 1998 prelude was doing if near 3k lbs.... it was never that fast. Quick for a car in the late 90's but too slow for 2012... if they can maintain the weight to 2700lbs that would be ideal... I thought the original proto was targeted for 2700lbs or "light weight"?

Zaggeron · 03-08-2011, 11:07 PM

The first prototype was about 1000kg -- roughly around 2200 lbs. Obviously, it was never going to make it into production with that weight. I would love 2700 lbs ... But I'm guessing it will probably be closer to 3k lbs. Not ideal, but still quick and nimble if it is packing 200 HP.

Isamu · 03-09-2011, 05:35 AM

220hp @ 2700lbs would be amazing..

jdmlove · 03-09-2011, 06:50 AM

it will be a very smart move if Toyota will make an option for 2 engines in the FT-86

With out a turbo with 200 HP to compete with the Miata and Geneses 2.0 and the 4 cylinders eclips!!

With a turbo 250hp+ to compete with the 370z and Genesis v6!!!

They can compete in 2 market segments!!

Saber Rider · 03-13-2011, 12:47 AM

Hmm... so if Toyota's Sports Car Program gestation period follows the same route as the LF-A, I look forward to seeing a concept facelift, then a convertible, then the actual production car in 2016...

In which case, it's direct competition would be the 400hp Nissan 420Z.

Kidding, kidding...

90 ST · 03-13-2011, 01:03 AM

I've heard as a 'yota it will be RWD and 200-220 hp, in Subi trim it will have 2 opitions RWD and 250-265 and AWD with 305, both turbo on the Subi side. Just what i've heard...

Found this:
Although Toyota’s version of the rear-wheel drive coupe made another step towards production with the FT-86 II concept, the Subaru version of the two-door appears to be lagging behind. The concept on display in Geneva is a mere skeleton of the real deal, featuring a see-through body with a mock-up drivetrain and suspension.

While many were likely hoping to finally see exactly what Subaru had come up with in order to make its take on the coupe differ from that of Toyota, it appears as if we will have to wait a bit longer before the true design is revealed.

What we know
The concept car in question is Subaru’s version of the Toyota FT-86, which was jointly developed by the two companies. As for the Subaru, we have a sneak-peak into the engine bay which will give this uniquely rear-wheel drive Subaru coupe its low center of gravity and torque-heavy characteristics.

Two months ago, spies captured the first images of Subaru’s RWD sports coupe in testing. The prototype pictured was adorned with heavy camouflage, making it impossible to see the real sheet metal. Although the previous teaser image only shows the car’s silhouette, the roofline and wheel arches look similar to leaked sketches from several months earlier.

Previous reports suggested the Subaru version of the FT-86 would utilize a turbocharged 2.0L flat-four developing 260 horsepower, but the model on display was equipped with a naturally aspirated four-banger. Still, it remains possible that Subaru could offer a turbocharged version of the coupe to sit atop the range, possibly under the STI banner.

Compared to the standard car, the STI version would sport a wider stance accented by wider wheel arches, a lowered suspension, a unique body kit, bigger wheels and a more aggressive spoiler. To complete the STI treatment, Subaru would likely opt for the turbocharged 2.5-liter boxer engine that is good for 305 horsepower in the Impreza WRX STI.

And this:
As for the actual development, Toyota is reportedly responsible for the styling of the car while Subaru is handling most of the engineering. This means the new model will be Subaru at heart, with a four-cylinder boxer engine in both naturally aspirated and turbocharged forms planned.

Base models will be strictly rear-wheel drive and have a power output of around 220 horsepower. Though no official details have been released, it’s expected that an all-wheel drive flagship with 300-horsepower from a turbocharged flat-four will be available as well. A six-speed manual transmission will be standard, although an automatic is also expected to be available.

The projected pricing for both cars will start around $25,000.

docaam · 03-14-2011, 04:22 AM

I am loving the shape, and would love more if there will be a turbocharged option. Its looks more like a mini LFA?

Isamu · 03-14-2011, 05:07 AM

if indeed it comes turbo'd for around 25k... and it's still around 2700-3000lbs... this will be a must have

nuTinmuch · 03-14-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isamu

if indeed it comes turbo'd for around 25k... and it's still around 2700-3000lbs... this will be a must have

Yup. A turbo will decide if this thing is a dud or a star.

If it has a turbo, it will compete in a crowded market. Toyota (and to a lesser extent, Subaru) will get their game back in the sports car market. You'll have an almost immediate aftermarket that will assist in selling the cars -- not to mention it will probably benefit massively from a simple tune.

Not to mention -- turbo and light? Stay out of boost and you'll have something that won't kill your wallet on a day to day basis.

But if it ships without a turbo? Total dud. It will sink to the bottom of the ocean and literally no one will care.

I mean, seriously, look at what you can get for 28k in this market -- a 370, a 5.0, a WRX (Not to mention a used Evo or STi), Mazdaspeed 3, Genesis Coupe -- probably a handful I'm missing as well.

Honestly, even if they turbo it, they've got to nail the price down. If it MSRPs for 30k it will probably get optioned up to 38-9k, at which honestly, unless it has -incredible- performance numbers, it won't sell either.

Zaggeron · 03-14-2011, 07:42 PM

Even at 220 HP if it were under 30k MSRP fully optioned out it would be desirable -- a light sporty RWD coupe with decent power.

I don't really get you guys that think this is fail unless it is turbo'd out and is equipped to compete against the Z, Mustang, Genesis, etc. Haven't you guys ever driven a light, moderately powered RWD car? -- you can have a lot of fun at way less than "go straight to jail" speeds. I agree that if it starts too close to 30K with only a NA 4-banger, then it would be a hard sell, but If I can get it for 30K OTD with leather and navigation I'll be one happy camper with a cool new commuter car.

PapoZalsa · 03-14-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC

no its not going to be in that performance or price segment... this is going to be like a mid 20K Scion when it comes to the US

Doubt it, it will be close if not in the $30K to compete in the market especially if is Turbo.

Brazilbro · 03-15-2011, 12:07 AM

If you want 2700lb and 220hp it already exists , its called the S2000.. Not really impressive in stock from.. I hope subie takes it to the next level with a turbo kit, not to say that the aftermarket wont make one for the toyo. I'm just over I4 cars.. been there , done that. I'd get one and swap a 2JZ in it.. that would be something.

Jordo! · 03-15-2011, 12:19 AM

There is an intense debate over what the car will need to sell well on the FT-86 forum, and I have to say, I agree primarily with the folks demanding it has impressive perfomance numbers over the ones who argue for a fun, but modestly powered car.

Why? There's simply no market for the latter vehicle. Nearly every car that once fit that bill is out of production or going out of production.

Yes there are people who want that, but they do not represent enough of the market. Toyota will have to give this some decent performance specs to sell.

Isamu · 03-15-2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaggeron

Even at 220 HP if it were under 30k MSRP fully optioned out it would be desirable -- a light sporty RWD coupe with decent power.

I don't really get you guys that think this is fail unless it is turbo'd out and is equipped to compete against the Z, Mustang, Genesis, etc. Haven't you guys ever driven a light, moderately powered RWD car? -- you can have a lot of fun at way less than "go straight to jail" speeds. I agree that if it starts too close to 30K with only a NA 4-banger, then it would be a hard sell, but If I can get it for 30K OTD with leather and navigation I'll be one happy camper with a cool new commuter car.

ill agree with you here.. it doesn't need break neck hp and tq numbers, but something competitive with its light weight and decent price tag... something in the range of 25k with some decent options will be a killer DD for me....

Isamu · 03-15-2011, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazilbro

If you want 2700lb and 220hp it already exists , its called the S2000.. Not really impressive in stock from.. I hope subie takes it to the next level with a turbo kit, not to say that the aftermarket wont make one for the toyo. I'm just over I4 cars.. been there , done that. I'd get one and swap a 2JZ in it.. that would be something.

I love the s2k, it was fun and easy to drive... but the ft-86 seems to have MORE potential, especially if it comes equipped with a turbo..

03-08-2011, 11:07 PM	#47 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 19	The first prototype was about 1000kg -- roughly around 2200 lbs. Obviously, it was never going to make it into production with that weight. I would love 2700 lbs ... But I'm guessing it will probably be closer to 3k lbs. Not ideal, but still quick and nimble if it is packing 200 HP. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

03-09-2011, 06:50 AM	#49 (permalink)
jdmlove Base Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bahrain Posts: 222 Drives: HR 350z - 07 M35X Rep Power: 16	it will be a very smart move if Toyota will make an option for 2 engines in the FT-86 With out a turbo with 200 HP to compete with the Miata and Geneses 2.0 and the 4 cylinders eclips!! With a turbo 250hp+ to compete with the 370z and Genesis v6!!! They can compete in 2 market segments!! __________________

03-13-2011, 01:03 AM	#51 (permalink)
90 ST A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,861 Drives: 90 and 15 GMC Sierra Rep Power: 422	I've heard as a 'yota it will be RWD and 200-220 hp, in Subi trim it will have 2 opitions RWD and 250-265 and AWD with 305, both turbo on the Subi side. Just what i've heard... Found this: Although Toyota’s version of the rear-wheel drive coupe made another step towards production with the FT-86 II concept, the Subaru version of the two-door appears to be lagging behind. The concept on display in Geneva is a mere skeleton of the real deal, featuring a see-through body with a mock-up drivetrain and suspension. While many were likely hoping to finally see exactly what Subaru had come up with in order to make its take on the coupe differ from that of Toyota, it appears as if we will have to wait a bit longer before the true design is revealed. What we know The concept car in question is Subaru’s version of the Toyota FT-86, which was jointly developed by the two companies. As for the Subaru, we have a sneak-peak into the engine bay which will give this uniquely rear-wheel drive Subaru coupe its low center of gravity and torque-heavy characteristics. Two months ago, spies captured the first images of Subaru’s RWD sports coupe in testing. The prototype pictured was adorned with heavy camouflage, making it impossible to see the real sheet metal. Although the previous teaser image only shows the car’s silhouette, the roofline and wheel arches look similar to leaked sketches from several months earlier. Previous reports suggested the Subaru version of the FT-86 would utilize a turbocharged 2.0L flat-four developing 260 horsepower, but the model on display was equipped with a naturally aspirated four-banger. Still, it remains possible that Subaru could offer a turbocharged version of the coupe to sit atop the range, possibly under the STI banner. Compared to the standard car, the STI version would sport a wider stance accented by wider wheel arches, a lowered suspension, a unique body kit, bigger wheels and a more aggressive spoiler. To complete the STI treatment, Subaru would likely opt for the turbocharged 2.5-liter boxer engine that is good for 305 horsepower in the Impreza WRX STI. And this: As for the actual development, Toyota is reportedly responsible for the styling of the car while Subaru is handling most of the engineering. This means the new model will be Subaru at heart, with a four-cylinder boxer engine in both naturally aspirated and turbocharged forms planned. Base models will be strictly rear-wheel drive and have a power output of around 220 horsepower. Though no official details have been released, it’s expected that an all-wheel drive flagship with 300-horsepower from a turbocharged flat-four will be available as well. A six-speed manual transmission will be standard, although an automatic is also expected to be available. The projected pricing for both cars will start around $25,000. Last edited by 90 ST; 03-13-2011 at 01:15 AM.

03-14-2011, 04:22 AM	#52 (permalink)
docaam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Dubai Posts: 2,532 Drives: Z34/240z/Hakosuka Rep Power: 29	I am loving the shape, and would love more if there will be a turbocharged option. Its looks more like a mini LFA? __________________ Old 370Z SOLD but not forgotten 370Z 40th, G37s, S30 RBZ, Hakosuka Skyline

03-14-2011, 07:42 PM	#55 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 19	Even at 220 HP if it were under 30k MSRP fully optioned out it would be desirable -- a light sporty RWD coupe with decent power. I don't really get you guys that think this is fail unless it is turbo'd out and is equipped to compete against the Z, Mustang, Genesis, etc. Haven't you guys ever driven a light, moderately powered RWD car? -- you can have a lot of fun at way less than "go straight to jail" speeds. I agree that if it starts too close to 30K with only a NA 4-banger, then it would be a hard sell, but If I can get it for 30K OTD with leather and navigation I'll be one happy camper with a cool new commuter car. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

03-08-2011, 06:28 PM	#46 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	the issue is the power to weight is about wat my 1998 prelude was doing if near 3k lbs.... it was never that fast. Quick for a car in the late 90's but too slow for 2012... if they can maintain the weight to 2700lbs that would be ideal... I thought the original proto was targeted for 2700lbs or "light weight"?

03-09-2011, 05:35 AM	#48 (permalink)
Isamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Minot ND Posts: 51,960 Drives: every day... Rep Power: 214	220hp @ 2700lbs would be amazing..

03-13-2011, 12:47 AM	#50 (permalink)
Saber Rider Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Manila Posts: 43 Drives: '94 S14K Rep Power: 17	Hmm... so if Toyota's Sports Car Program gestation period follows the same route as the LF-A, I look forward to seeing a concept facelift, then a convertible, then the actual production car in 2016... In which case, it's direct competition would be the 400hp Nissan 420Z. Kidding, kidding...

03-14-2011, 05:07 AM	#53 (permalink)
Isamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Minot ND Posts: 51,960 Drives: every day... Rep Power: 214	if indeed it comes turbo'd for around 25k... and it's still around 2700-3000lbs... this will be a must have

03-15-2011, 12:07 AM	#57 (permalink)
Brazilbro A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,131 Drives: Juke/240Z Rep Power: 849	If you want 2700lb and 220hp it already exists , its called the S2000.. Not really impressive in stock from.. I hope subie takes it to the next level with a turbo kit, not to say that the aftermarket wont make one for the toyo. I'm just over I4 cars.. been there , done that. I'd get one and swap a 2JZ in it.. that would be something. __________________ Juke AWD/240Z SR20 08 Evo 10(Stage 2) SOLD Fastest Sport 6spd 370Z 11.8 @126.5SOLD

03-15-2011, 12:19 AM	#58 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 419	There is an intense debate over what the car will need to sell well on the FT-86 forum, and I have to say, I agree primarily with the folks demanding it has impressive perfomance numbers over the ones who argue for a fun, but modestly powered car. Why? There's simply no market for the latter vehicle. Nearly every car that once fit that bill is out of production or going out of production. Yes there are people who want that, but they do not represent enough of the market. Toyota will have to give this some decent performance specs to sell. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

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