OK, maybe its me...

ZCanadian · 01-17-2019, 05:54 PM

Everyone uses the brakes differently.
Perhaps brake ducting is the answer. Or maybe changing your technique is a better answer.
One thing to keep in mind - adding brake ducting will put you in a much tougher class in time attack or auto cross.

Consider this quote:
"A lot of people jump on the brakes very hard. I was always a guy who braked, for the most part, very easy. I didn’t use up the brakes at all since I tended to roll off the throttle and onto the brake more easily.
“To put it in perspective, at Laguna Seca, which is hard on brakes, Rick Mears and I were teammates at Penske and Rick finished the race with only 70 thousandths of an inch of brake pad material left. I only used 70 thousandths of the pad in winning the race. People brake differently but can still run the same lap time, especially in a race."
- Danny Sullivan

That's driving the same cars. Different cars (weight & distribution, brake bias, grip, brake effectiveness) have to be driven through corners differently. The general "racing line" is typically the rule, though. Straighten the corners, don't square them. Squaring the corners is a sign of early or late apexing (depending on where you are doing the sharper turn). Be accurate. Be consistent. That's how to drive fast.

A few thoughts which help me..
#1 - LOOK where you are going - before the braking zone look to turn in, before the end of the braking zone look to the apex and even past that to track-out. This will help you gauge the speed you need, turn-in point to apex properly, and where you can start to add power. Once you see that line through the corner, TAKE IT. Looking down just past the hood leads to bad lines and poor driving on the street or the track. But we all do it! Don't be afraid to look out your side windows! Front windshields are for drag races.

#2 Get your braking done earlier and you can probably brake less - often burying the car deep into the braking zone causes panic over-braking and too much speed loss (and needlessly heating the brakes up). You gain very little time by braking late, compared to coming out of the corner faster.

#3 Apply the brakes light-heavy-light. You can hold more weight on the nose that way, to improve turn-in at higher speed. And keep the suspension from bouncing around just as you need the car settled for a fast turn. As you learn to trail brake (if needed), you will adjust the amount of heavy braking.

#4 Learn to modulate the brake pedal by PRESSURE rather than TRAVEL. On the street, we move our leg and step on the brake. On track, where you brake so much heavier, you need to take advantage of the find adjustments that come from slightly adjusting the pedal pressure. Especially if you run with the nannies / ABS off!

#5 What @God-Speed said!

Rusty · 01-17-2019, 11:25 PM

It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. On the track. I hate the Spec Miata's. Pass them on the straights, only to have them pass you under braking and through the turn.

I was taught to brake lightly. Easy on, easy off. Don't go jumping on the brake pedal. When you jump on the brakes.The nose goes down too quick, and the rear wants to lift. Upsetting the balance. And when you release the brakes. You don't want to just lift, come up slowly. When you lift quick. The front springs will want to bounce the front up too quickly. Then you are playing around with your dampening setting trying to find a compromise.

God-Speed · 01-18-2019, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. On the track. I hate the Spec Miata's. Pass them on the straights, only to have them pass you under braking and through the turn.

I was taught to brake lightly. Easy on, easy off. Don't go jumping on the brake pedal. When you jump on the brakes.The nose goes down too quick, and the rear wants to lift. Upsetting the balance. And when you release the brakes. You don't want to just lift, come up slowly. When you lift quick. The front springs will want to bounce the front up too quickly. Then you are playing around with your dampening setting trying to find a compromise.

Enough Said!!!!

osbornsm · 01-18-2019, 09:48 AM

Previous Rides were all lower power than the Camaro.

So i started slow... see chart below.

It seems the way i make it around a road course is not conducive to brake longevity. :-\

Rusty · 01-18-2019, 10:18 AM

Yeah, and each time you moved up in power. You increased weight.

osbornsm · 01-18-2019, 11:30 AM

I'm happy with the power/weight ratio of the Camaro.
I am NOT happy with the weight/brake ratio.

01-17-2019, 05:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
ZCanadian A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Canada Posts: 1,061 Drives: 2013 370Z Rep Power: 60275	Everyone uses the brakes differently. Perhaps brake ducting is the answer. Or maybe changing your technique is a better answer. One thing to keep in mind - adding brake ducting will put you in a much tougher class in time attack or auto cross. Consider this quote: "A lot of people jump on the brakes very hard. I was always a guy who braked, for the most part, very easy. I didn’t use up the brakes at all since I tended to roll off the throttle and onto the brake more easily. “To put it in perspective, at Laguna Seca, which is hard on brakes, Rick Mears and I were teammates at Penske and Rick finished the race with only 70 thousandths of an inch of brake pad material left. I only used 70 thousandths of the pad in winning the race. People brake differently but can still run the same lap time, especially in a race." - Danny Sullivan That's driving the same cars. Different cars (weight & distribution, brake bias, grip, brake effectiveness) have to be driven through corners differently. The general "racing line" is typically the rule, though. Straighten the corners, don't square them. Squaring the corners is a sign of early or late apexing (depending on where you are doing the sharper turn). Be accurate. Be consistent. That's how to drive fast. A few thoughts which help me.. #1 - LOOK where you are going - before the braking zone look to turn in, before the end of the braking zone look to the apex and even past that to track-out. This will help you gauge the speed you need, turn-in point to apex properly, and where you can start to add power. Once you see that line through the corner, TAKE IT. Looking down just past the hood leads to bad lines and poor driving on the street or the track. But we all do it! Don't be afraid to look out your side windows! Front windshields are for drag races. #2 Get your braking done earlier and you can probably brake less - often burying the car deep into the braking zone causes panic over-braking and too much speed loss (and needlessly heating the brakes up). You gain very little time by braking late, compared to coming out of the corner faster. #3 Apply the brakes light-heavy-light. You can hold more weight on the nose that way, to improve turn-in at higher speed. And keep the suspension from bouncing around just as you need the car settled for a fast turn. As you learn to trail brake (if needed), you will adjust the amount of heavy braking. #4 Learn to modulate the brake pedal by PRESSURE rather than TRAVEL. On the street, we move our leg and step on the brake. On track, where you brake so much heavier, you need to take advantage of the find adjustments that come from slightly adjusting the pedal pressure. Especially if you run with the nannies / ABS off! #5 What @God-Speed said! God-Speed, JARblue, Rusty and 3 others like this. Last edited by ZCanadian; 01-17-2019 at 06:05 PM.

01-17-2019, 11:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rusty A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 70 Posts: 35,571 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684440	It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. On the track. I hate the Spec Miata's. Pass them on the straights, only to have them pass you under braking and through the turn. I was taught to brake lightly. Easy on, easy off. Don't go jumping on the brake pedal. When you jump on the brakes.The nose goes down too quick, and the rear wants to lift. Upsetting the balance. And when you release the brakes. You don't want to just lift, come up slowly. When you lift quick. The front springs will want to bounce the front up too quickly. Then you are playing around with your dampening setting trying to find a compromise. God-Speed, Hotrodz, wideglideleon and 2 others like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-18-2019, 09:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
osbornsm A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: WHAT Posts: 2,551 Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Rep Power: 425	Previous Rides were all lower power than the Camaro. So i started slow... see chart below. It seems the way i make it around a road course is not conducive to brake longevity. :-\ __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE (455hp) - 2011 Nissan 370z (333hp) - 2004 VW R32 (240hp) - 2000 Civic Si (160hp)

01-18-2019, 10:18 AM	#5 (permalink)
Rusty A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 70 Posts: 35,571 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684440	Yeah, and each time you moved up in power. You increased weight. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

01-18-2019, 11:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
osbornsm A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: WHAT Posts: 2,551 Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Rep Power: 425	I'm happy with the power/weight ratio of the Camaro. I am NOT happy with the weight/brake ratio. __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE (455hp) - 2011 Nissan 370z (333hp) - 2004 VW R32 (240hp) - 2000 Civic Si (160hp)