Bikers Attack Driver After Accident: Caught on Tape

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElVee

I'm likely not going to get a very accurate legal definition, but a riot is just a group of people with common intent to cause violence.

"Riot" is very often associated with political meanings, picketing, looting, public assembly. But it's more broad than that. In regards to unlawful assembly, the inclusion of violence is what moves that term up to "riot."

From there, you get down to who is a participant in a riot or not, and typically if you're in the vicinity, you're a participant. It's even more damning if you're previously part of the group, in shared uniform, or otherwise moving in concert with the group.

There is (I should say "should be" since I'm not smart enough nor in the legal field and experienced in looking it up) case precedence that nearby persons are charged/tried as participants when they've said they were not.

More than likely that is all arguable based on context and whether a prosecutor in a criminal case feels it worthwhile to pursue.

The burden for being a participant of a riot requires active encouragement, not merely presence.

There are a lot of legal tricks that could be used against roadkill, but claiming he was part of a riot is pretty unlikely. The group (from all appearances) was largely non-violent and the aggressive actions were that of the minority (most of the guys stayed planted on their bikes even during the beating). If you could build a case that there was a riot, you would need to show participation by roadkill, which is a challenge as he got run over before anything started. Then, to my knowledge, there's no precedent saying that if you are threatened by part of a rioting group you can use deadly force against any of them.

It would be a very uphill legal battle and there are easier methods to get the guy, if that's the route they want to take.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElVee

Yes, I think we're talking pretty much the same thing there. It's called "law of parties" in Texas.

Yup, just referencing the broader legal concept as more people are likely to be familiar with the global terminology.

ElVee · 10-02-2013, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The burden for being a participant of a riot requires active encouragement, not merely presence.

There are a lot of legal tricks that could be used against roadkill, but claiming he was part of a riot is pretty unlikely. The group (from all appearances) was largely non-violent and the aggressive actions were that of the minority (most of the guys stayed planted on their bikes even during the beating). If you could build a case that there was a riot, you would need to show participation by roadkill, which is a challenge as he got run over before anything started. Then, to my knowledge, there's no precedent saying that if you are threatened by part of a rioting group you can use deadly force against any of them.

It would be a very uphill legal battle and there are easier methods to get the guy, if that's the route they want to take.

I'd love to disagree here, as I think there is precedent on who is considered included in a riot (aka mob violence) or not, but I'm not versed enough in it. I can just futilely say I disagree and whimper into the corner.

DEpointfive0 · 10-02-2013, 04:40 PM

Damn there are some funny memes online

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElVee

I'd love to disagree here, as I think there is precedent on who is considered included in a riot (aka mob violence) or not, but I'm not versed enough in it. I can just futilely say I disagree and whimper into the corner.

To be clear here I'm not arguing what I think should be the case, I'm just pointing out what is. My personal opinions on matters like this is they should never happen because guys that recklessly endanger the public like this should have been placed in jail a long time ago.

The dude that got run over was cited many times for driving without a license. The fact that he's free indicates a painful failing of the legal system. This should have never happened because half those bikers should have already been in jail.

But, it's important to not set dangerous precedents either. Built by association seems fine in this case, but it would be a bummer if you were on a forum that got out of hand and you wound up in jail because of it.

Caving to bad rules in order to catch bad guys in one case leads to things like a ball-fondling surcharge on your plane tickets, or rules like the Canadian-street-racing car impound (if you're in a nice car near a street race, you lose your car)

XiP · 10-02-2013, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

To be clear here I'm not arguing what I think should be the case, I'm just pointing out what is. My personal opinions on matters like this is they should never happen because guys that recklessly endanger the public like this should have been placed in jail a long time ago.

The dude that got run over was cited many times for driving without a license. The fact that he's free indicates a painful failing of the legal system. This should have never happened because half those bikers should have already been in jail.

But, it's important to not set dangerous precedents either. Built by association seems fine in this case, but it would be a bummer if you were on a forum that got out of hand and you wound up in jail because of it.

Caving to bad rules in order to catch bad guys in one case leads to things like a ball-fondling surcharge on your plane tickets, or rules like the Canadian-street-racing car impound (if you're in a nice car near a street race, you lose your car)

you sound like a lawyer

ElVee · 10-02-2013, 04:47 PM

Part of me wishes I had gotten into law way back when, since this stuff fascinates me and gets the juices going.

But then I realize I dislike people and get over it.

Red__Zed · 10-02-2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XiP

you sound like a lawyer

no, but I play one on TV

XiP · 10-02-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

no, but I play one on TV

everything about the legal process seems so stressful
it's like your job is conflict management... and people's lives/money/etc are at stake
i dont think i could ever do that kind of stuff

andre12031948 · 10-02-2013, 04:58 PM

They are parading all over the street & I'm not able to drive through. Then they give me the finger & come knocking on my window. Am I allowed to drive OVER them because I felt threatened????

The freaken guy gunned his SUV straight at the riders in front of him. If they wouldn't have reacted as quickly as they had, many would be run over & dead!!!! He felt threatened/scared????? He & his family was NOT touched & weren't going to be. Just because he thought different does not give him the right to accelerate straight right into & over a bunch of people.

Even after he ran over & possibly killed a person, the driver was not beat up/hurt that badly.

You can't just drive over people!!!!!! When someone points a gun to your face you should feel threatened, not if someone made a gesture to slice your tires or knocks/bangs on your car door.

andre12031948 · 10-02-2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElVee

Part of me wishes I had gotten into law way back when, since this stuff fascinates me and gets the juices going.

But then I realize I dislike people and get over it.

Prosecutor material^^^^

XiP · 10-02-2013, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

Prosecutor material^^^^

were you born on 12/03/1948?

if yes i think im detective material

andre12031948 · 10-02-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XiP

were you born on 12/03/1948?

if yes i think im detective material

I can't tell you that, but I can say that I'll be 65 before the year ends

XiP · 10-02-2013, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andre12031948

I can't tell you that, but I can say that I'll be 65 before the year ends

i have no clue why but you remind of me tweety bird

andre12031948 · 10-02-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XiP

i have no clue why but you remind of me tweety bird

If you're young & female, let's talk. Utherwise

10-02-2013, 04:40 PM	#289 (permalink)
DEpointfive0 Premium Member Bitches Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SoCal Posts: 14,824 Drives: a lot Rep Power: 17151	Damn there are some funny memes online __________________ Do YOU want to know what/where I got my username from? ( Click to show/hide ) NSFW due to language:

10-02-2013, 04:58 PM	#295 (permalink)
andre12031948 Banned Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: monticello new york 127 Posts: 1,095 Drives: 08 350z black 6m/t Rep Power: 0	what if I came up to a crowd of people/a picket line They are parading all over the street & I'm not able to drive through. Then they give me the finger & come knocking on my window. Am I allowed to drive OVER them because I felt threatened???? The freaken guy gunned his SUV straight at the riders in front of him. If they wouldn't have reacted as quickly as they had, many would be run over & dead!!!! He felt threatened/scared????? He & his family was NOT touched & weren't going to be. Just because he thought different does not give him the right to accelerate straight right into & over a bunch of people. Even after he ran over & possibly killed a person, the driver was not beat up/hurt that badly. You can't just drive over people!!!!!! When someone points a gun to your face you should feel threatened, not if someone made a gesture to slice your tires or knocks/bangs on your car door.

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10-02-2013, 04:47 PM	#292 (permalink)
ElVee Track Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Iowa Posts: 750 Drives: 13 370z 7at t+s grey Rep Power: 16	Part of me wishes I had gotten into law way back when, since this stuff fascinates me and gets the juices going. But then I realize I dislike people and get over it.