I think the top tier Turbo is considered a supercar and the cars below are exotics.

Yep, put an AT in and it's hilariously overpriced ;)

i mean if one would get a 911 a PDK is the only way to go.

:stirthepot:

Not sure if this was discussed in this thread already, but I don't think Nissan will come out with a manual trans, if and when they make the new Z.

Being very realistic, the C7 sells around 3k a month, and that's the best selling 2 seat sports car. So even if Nissan could somehow match those numbers and 1/3 decide to get a manual trans. That's only 12k (and that's a far stretch) for a whole year. I just don't see how Nissan would get the go ahead from Carlos Gohsn to approve a new manual trans for those numbers.

I guess for those of us who have a 6mt, we'd better enjoy it. :driving:

Why wouldn't they sell a manual? It helps lower the price of the car. I don't think Nissan cares about how many manual cars they sell. I always thought one of the selling points of the Z was price and if Nissan still cares about that selling point then they will still offer a manual.

I don't think that it will lower the price of the car, as I highly doubt that they'd use the same manual transmission as in our current Z. So a new one would have to be developed, which would increase expenses for R&D and retooling of the assembly plant costs. Currently the Z, Q50/Q60 & GTR are assembled in the same plant in Japan and if they continue this business model. It's just seems much more cost efficient to use the same engines & trans as the Q cars. Plus add to the fact that Carlos Ghosn's M.O. is one of cost efficiency and it doesn't appear good for a MT option.

Chevrolet/GM and BMW, which come quickly to my mind, have multiple cars that will share a manual trans, thus making it much more cost efficient than a specially made transmission for a single low volume sales car. Hope I'm wrong, but at this point, with no manual trans for the Q60. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't come with one, or the manual trans will be an add on option with a higher cost than it's automatic sibling.

They can use the same transmission, and just change the bell housing and CSC.

Jesus man........... :eek:

I think this is the one situation where Ghosn will be forced to concede on the cost-efficiency option as far as transmission offerings.

The Z primarily sells to the Z cult following. If you eliminate the manual transmission, you had better hope that your potential conquest sales base is large enough to compensate for the Z cult buyers that will undoubtedly buy something else. A large chunk of the cult Z buyers have the buying power to move to something like a Porsche Cayman S or 911 to get their purist MT sports car. The Corvette also comes to mind.

They can dork with engine choices all they want. This was already tested when they abandoned the carburetor ... tested again when they boosted... tested again when they abandoned the straight six... tested again when they went back to NA. As long as it makes appropriate power, you'll keep the OGs. The way power can be made has certainly evolved since the carb'ed 240Z days. One might argue that the way power is put to the ground has evolved, but there's more at stake than efficiency here - we're talking about engagement with the driver. The Z is one car that has to go against the grain of automated numbnut machines being stamped out with CVTs and tempurpedic seats.

$60K for next new Z35?
 

But if the Z platform is the only one using the manual, sales most likely won't be where they need to be to justify the tooling, etc. When they could use the manual on the G as well, they could spread the costs around. If it's gone for the G, it's bad news for the Z.

Z cult buyers were barely keeping this model on life support. They won't base a decision like this on the wants of a group who buys >5k cars a year. They want mass success, not something propped up by a very small group of enthusiasts.

I'm wondering if one day manufacturers will start making faux manuals and charging a premium. Manuals have died for the normal driver, now they are dying for enthusiasts.

Personally, I wouldn't trade my 7AT for anything. I had a 2013 Altima with that stupid CVT. ::shudder::

Glad that nightmare is over.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Sure, but look at how many other cars are out there in and around this segment that are using one-off transmissions. The Miata and the BRZ are two examples of this. You also have to look at the market mix. What was the take rate on the Z coupe as far as manual vs automatic? If it's larger than 30%, then there is your incentive to produce it. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

Also - where does the new Z coupe compete? Is it in the Miata/BRZ space? If so, you have to build a manual judging by the take rates in each of those cars (about 50% on average). Is it in the Camaro/Mustang space? If so, it'd be the only one offered without a manual if it went that route, regardless of trim. Is it a premium sports car offering like the Corvette and Cayman/911? Needs a manual.

I am one that agrees that automated dual clutch transmissions are where the future of speed lies in performance cars. However, we're not quite there yet with respect to adoption due to many external factors, but the main one is this - we may be the last generation of buyers that gives a **** about a manual transmission, and they gotta flush us out first. Right now, there's strength in numbers on our side.

Given that the transmission used in the new Q50/Q60 twin turbos is little more than the 7AT used on the M56/Q70 5.6 (needed to handle the torque of the new motor), there's room for an updated 6MT. We all know that the current 6MT can handle added power on the current Z. I don't see it as much of a stretch to R&D an appropriate bell housing and slap the current 6MT on either the 300hp turbo 6 or the 400hp turbo 6. They didn't go too crazy with the automatic, and that's where the bread and butter of Infiniti sales are.

Also - the take rate on the G was 5% or less (I read it in an interview a while back... I'll try to dig it up) and in the space that the G/Q competes, the manual option is borderline non-existent. They're not going to lose prospective buyers for this specific offering in the luxury sport space, but I see them losing prospective Z buyers if they do not offer one. Different demographic altogether.

I'm going to assume they will have both options... but on the manual one they will keep the same old CSC... again to force auto's on us.


and unfortunately the last part is true. take queue the recent base price cuts needed to help stimulate sales.

mind you an issue with this car is it came out during the recession / financial crisis and a lot of people that had disposable income to buy a sports car was in question when they needed something more practical. at the release it was great in terms of competition. nothing really in 09'.

since the economy has been recovering (albeit slowly) and the reemergence of the middle class they have more money to blow on sports cars and then we have more choice/options now for the price of the Z...

Ricer, In your above example of the Miata, yes it still has a manual trans but that's because they're using the same trans as always. No need to retool the factory to do this, kind of like the current Z, keeping the manual trans adds no additional cost to keep it in the line up.

Regarding the BRZ, that's not a singular trans for a singular vehicle. FRS also uses it and I'm sure it came from some other Subaru model.

As Chuck has also mentioned above, the Z is in a very small market. Then add to the fact that the manual trans driver is a niche buyer in this small market, and it won't make sense to build it, especially for a $$ guy like Carlos Ghosn.

Also keep in mind, Nissan's ultimate sports car, the GTR came out with no manual trans. While I would love to be wrong and have Nissan come out with a 400hp manual trans Z. I'm not going to hold out for this.

$60K for next new Z35?
 

Ricer, the only issue with the cars you compare it against is that they all sell 10x times what a Z does. They sell hundreds of thousands of Miata, mustangs and camaros. The frs uses the same off the shelf Aisin tranny that toyotas used in other cars. The German cars have a higher margin on them, so you can absorb the costs easier. It's easy to amortize a bunch of different options when you sell like that. When you move 5k units a year, we're lucky they didn't completely kill it again.

Not to mention, Porsche has been moving away from manuals for a while now, Benz doesn't have one and bmw has only a very few models available. Only the Vette in your list is really easily available with a stick. It's sad, but that's the way the world seems to be going.

How is the Toybaru using the same transmission as any of Toyota's other cars?

It's the same gearbox as the one in the IS250. Not sure what other ones it's available in.

Yes, Chuck is correct. One of the earlier concepts of the 86 cars came with the Subaru engine and gearbox from the Impreza. However actual production ended up with the Subaru engine and gearbox from the IS250. Production for both cars are done at the Subaru plant in Gunma Japan.

Another Gloriously, well executed and precise opinion from Ricer X. :tup:

If thread posts were the movie twins. You'd be shawarzenegger..

And whatever Danny devito flushed down the toilet in the bathroom scene... That would a be a Jungle Z post. :rofl2:

FTR, I'd buy a 911 R over a Z if I was a wealthy businessman.

We do agree that the trend going forward is automatics for the masses, but I stand behind my point that certain segments can afford to keep them for a while longer. The recent debut of the Porsche 911 R reinforces that - if they were truly dedicated in dumping the manual altogether, why did they build this car?

Also - the Aisin transmission you mention is now exclusively used in the FRS/BRZ. The Lexus has dumped it as an option altogether. I'm not aware of another vehicle that uses it in the Toyota/Lexus lineup.

You mention margins - the current Z still shares a platform with the Q50 and upcoming Q60, and it's highly unlikely the next Z goes to something else. They can stand to slightly retool the 370Z's existing manual and pair it with the VR30DETT, especially when the sales of the Q50 are continually increasing to make up for any costs you incur customizing its platform enough to extend it to another product like the Z.

First - name another Mazda that uses the Miata's transmission. Also - the transmission was reworked fairly extensively with the new Miata for a couple reasons - the SkyActiv motor is completely different, and the target with this car was weight savings. Even then, the cost is justified. Sure they have sales numbers behind them, but only a goofy Fiat shares a platform with the Miata now, and that's the first time that has happened. The 350Z forward always had a platform partner to help the business end of things work.

Second - as I mentioned above, the FRS/BRZ is now the singular user of said transmission. At one point, 60% of those sales were manual transmissions. I would say the cost of producing that transmission is more than justified.

Third - yes Ghosn is a money guy... a money guy smart enough to know that you don't toss a product into the mix of other products you're competing with that's short on offerings, especially when those offerings may push potential buyers to the competition. We have plenty of 7AT lovers here, but how many guys would have explored their options a bit more extensively if a 6MT wasn't offered in the Z? Sure the Z is getting outsold by those cars, but I can't imagine offering a manual hurt the numbers.

Finally - the GT-R was meant to be the bleeding edge performance marque for Nissan. To slightly oversimplify, currently, bleeding edge speed means dual clutch automated transmissions. The transmission of the GT-R is mounted in the rear of the vehicle for various reasons, but the main one would be weight distribution. A manual transmission absolutely does not fit the mantra of this car. The GR6 is massively expensive to produce. I believe OEM replacement assemblies hover around $20k. If you were designing a car to be the fastest thing possibly obtained for under $80k (at release), and its transmission was one of the main facilitators to that goal, would you spend time engineering another transmission that would have to be designed unlike anything you've ever designed, and in the end, it would severely inhibit the performance goals of the car? Sure many of us would have loved a manual in this car. However, even beyond the business case, a manual tranny didn't make sense for the R35 on so many levels, and it's really not a good example of a counterpoint, especially when you're comparing its situation to a car that costs 30%. It's like asking why the upcoming Ford GT doesn't have the same powertrain options as an EcoBoost Mustang.

Not sure all of your facts are correct or interpreted correctly Ricer but I'm not going to argue them as I hope you're right on this and I'm wrong.

I'm with you that sure Nissan will most likely use the Q50/60 platform but I'd like to see Nissan integrate some of the GTR technology as well. So we'll most likely get the 3 & 400 hp tt engines. But if Nissan used the low center of gravity weight model (like the GTR) and move the transmission to the rear, but keep it a rwd. This would definitely be a Z I'd be interested in and wouldn't mind paying more for it than the current Z.

I don't think the Z is big enough for a transmission in the rear. The GT-R and Aston Martins are both larger than the Z. Plus we have that massive fuel tank, which I honestly want to keep since we are one of the few cars capable of 500 miles between gas stops.

There's a video (or two) about the development of the Q50 Eau Rouge and how they got to where they got with the configuration of the prototype. When they got to the decision of using the GT-R engine, there were several reasons why they didn't go with its transmission. The first one? It didn't fit - the platform of the GT-R was designed around the chassis and powertrain. It was never intended to be a "volume" car per say, and they had the luxury of doing whatever they wanted with it.

So the transmission choice for the Eau Rouge concept? The M56 7AT (with a few tweaks). The Q50 Eau Rouge was created with a single mandate - raid the parts bin. There were to be no one-off parts. It is a GT-R motor with the AWD system and transmission from the M56S. This is why, as a concept it was completely driveable.

This circles back to my belief in shoehorning the existing 6MT into the next gen Z. The gearing is fine, and if it needs some tweaking, they can pull a 2015 Nismo and modify the final drive on it and bill it as improved acceleration or, in the opposite direction, improved fuel economy. Also, if the M's 7AT can be mated to a VR38 without extensive rework, then the Z's 6MT can be mated to the new VR30.

If the sales tank on the next gen Z, then you haven't built a new transmission that can't be used in any other model. You haven't designed a platform that won't be used elsewhere. You haven't built a motor that isn't being used elsewhere.

It doesn't get less risky than that for an automaker, honestly. All the pieces are there. It's just a matter of putting them together.

Nissan has axed so many concepts I'm beginning to question if the GRIP Z chassis will be used but I'm hoping. But also... the G37 was about 3700lbs and the Z is about 3,300lbs. The Q60 coupe is supposed to be about 3,400 to 3,500lbs.
If Nissan still uses the modified FM platform for the next Z? That's 3,000-3,100lbs. If you average it against the logical the current Z and G platform.

Increasing Q sales would mean the Z will see production as it shows interest in the platform.

Of course, more rumors but I hope that's not near the expected design (Picture).

2018 Nissan Z | car review @ Top Speed

That looks like an Altima in front. Ugh

Looks like an aborted fetus in front. Ugh.

I like where they said '2 seater convertible with 2.0L turbo hybrid motor'. They've been saying the same thing about the Honda S2000 coming back as such.

I'm surprised someone hasn't said this is the new Z:


Nissan Concept 2020 Vision Gran Turismo | Nissan USA



:stirthepot:

For all those hoping nissan would discontinue the Z :P


Nissan Has No Plans to Build a Smaller Miata Competitor

But not all the news from Nakamura was disappointing. He also said the GT-R and Z are permanent parts of the Nissan lineup and aren't going anywhere. So even though both cars are aging and dated, at least fans don't have to worry about them being canceled.

I like this. At least not cancelled.

:tup:

Stupid road and track with the old a$$ news....

thats good news, now nissan give us something more concrete!

As mentioned before, the new Z will most likely share a lot with the Q50/60 cars and have the new TT 3.0 engines. Problem is the new Q50 Red Sport (400hp) model with the RWD is coming in at 3,853 lbs. While the Z is definitely a shorter car, hoping for the new Z to have the same weight as ours will most likely be wishful thinking.

Gut feeling is that the new Z will not be too much lighter, because of safety standards.

Good info..... now maybe someone we know will STFU

We're not Ford. It will be lighter.

:iagree: