[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

Chuck33079 · 12-06-2016, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraphiteZ

By the time the economy got better in 2012, it was already in the 4th MY and new competitors showed up and the rest is history.

Not to mention that the competition has gotten much better. 332-350 hp isn't as impressive now as it was in 2008.

mishuko · 12-06-2016, 12:20 PM

Everyone wants more power but at the end of the day can they use it all to the full potential?

Eh 30k for 332hp can't complain. Can't find a better bargain dollar for hp around... well I guess the Mustang gt but everything else with higher numbers also are bigger tag and also things I don't want.

Driving then is350 yesterday and it's a... boring drive lol

Chuck33079 · 12-06-2016, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishuko

Everyone wants more power but at the end of the day can they use it all to the full potential?

That doesn't matter from a marketing perspective. People just want more, whether they'll ever use it or not.

mishuko · 12-07-2016, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

That doesn't matter from a marketing perspective. People just want more, whether they'll ever use it or not.

Very true. At the end of the day it's all about bells and whistles with some big factory numbers.

True car enthusiasts know the difference between gimmicks and driving. Unfortunately that puts cars like ours in a very precarious position in terms for the manufacturer... how to attract people to drive a car that isn't all that practical vs a sport sedan

Chuck33079 · 12-07-2016, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishuko

Very true. At the end of the day it's all about bells and whistles with some big factory numbers.

True car enthusiasts know the difference between gimmicks and driving. Unfortunately that puts cars like ours in a very precarious position in terms for the manufacturer... how to attract people to drive a car that isn't all that practical vs a sport sedan

True car enthusiasts aren't even a blip on the radar to manufacturers. There aren't enough of them to make a car a sales success. That means the car has to appeal to the average buyer, and as we all know, the average person is a complete moron.

sx moneypit · 12-07-2016, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

True car enthusiasts aren't even a blip on the radar to manufacturers. There aren't enough of them to make a car a sales success. That means the car has to appeal to the average buyer, and as we all know, the average person is a complete moron.

JARblue · 12-07-2016, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

True car enthusiasts aren't even a blip on the radar to manufacturers. There aren't enough of them to make a car a sales success.

Agree with the exception of the hypercar market. It's pretty crazy that a manufacturer can do well selling barely a dozen cars a year, like Koenigsegg.

UNKNOWN_370 · 12-07-2016, 05:33 PM

2+2 cars will always outsell 2 seaters.... And you gotta think. The Z is truly the poor man's "dedicated" sports car. Most people that shop in the Z price range are looking for practical or versatile performance. Most people whohave the income to buy a Proper Z with SP or Nismo. May not be able to buy tires, pads, and other types of real sports car maintenance.

A car like the vette starts at a price where you have another tier of buyer. One that drives a nice car but is practical enough to want the most performance for the best money. If a higher tier purchaser is looking at the Z and the vette. He'll choose the vette.

The Z represents a balance of car with a tiny market. The 350z was also $25,000 to start vs the 370 being 30,000. At 30,000 in a 350 you had a well appointed car for the coin.

The 2009 370z was now a $40,000 car well appointed. So the way packages were done, you were jumping into an extra $7,000 of car compared to a comparable Z 3 years earlier. That's over $100 a month payment. And as stated. It happened during a recessio.

I think the Z power is fine for what you get. I would love to see the more powerful turbo but power would be on the bottom of my complaints.
But America is mostly about horsepower wars so the Z once again narrows the customer base by being ultra niche.

The populous for our cars in this income bracket is dismal. But that's EXACTLY what makes the Z so special. Most problems are small in the solution but huge in the ideology of being a competitive sports car. And it's because Nissan ignores the small things. Irs why the Z still suffers in sales right now.

Jordo! · 12-07-2016, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

2+2 cars will always outsell 2 seaters.... And you gotta think. The Z is truly the poor man's "dedicated" sports car. Most people that shop in the Z price range are looking for practical or versatile performance. Most people whohave the income to buy a Proper Z with SP or Nismo. May not be able to buy tires, pads, and other types of real sports car maintenance.

A car like the vette starts at a price where you have another tier of buyer. One that drives a nice car but is practical enough to want the most performance for the best money. If a higher tier purchaser is looking at the Z and the vette. He'll choose the vette.

The Z represents a balance of car with a tiny market. The 350z was also $25,000 to start vs the 370 being 30,000. At 30,000 in a 350 you had a well appointed car for the coin.

The 2009 370z was now a $40,000 car well appointed. So the way packages were done, you were jumping into an extra $7,000 of car compared to a comparable Z 3 years earlier. That's over $100 a month payment. And as stated. It happened during a recessio.

I think the Z power is fine for what you get. I would love to see the more powerful turbo but power would be on the bottom of my complaints.
But America is mostly about horsepower wars so the Z once again narrows the customer base by being ultra niche.

The populous for our cars in this income bracket is dismal. But that's EXACTLY what makes the Z so special. Most problems are small in the solution but huge in the ideology of being a competitive sports car. And it's because Nissan ignores the small things. Irs why the Z still suffers in sales right now.

Well said

I think it will be interesting to see what happens if the Supra and the Z35 are released at the same time.

I'm a little more excited by (the idea of, at least,) the Supra, but I'd be very happy with either. However, it will most likely be far easier to tune the Z, and I'm sure I'll want to do some tuning, especially if its factory boosted.

The relevant target consumers will probably all be thinking the same thing... and if they aren't, the car magazine's will be sure to remind us

Zala · 12-09-2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

2+2 cars will always outsell 2 seaters.... And you gotta think. The Z is truly the poor man's "dedicated" sports car. Most people that shop in the Z price range are looking for practical or versatile performance. Most people whohave the income to buy a Proper Z with SP or Nismo. May not be able to buy tires, pads, and other types of real sports car maintenance.

A car like the vette starts at a price where you have another tier of buyer. One that drives a nice car but is practical enough to want the most performance for the best money. If a higher tier purchaser is looking at the Z and the vette. He'll choose the vette.

The Z represents a balance of car with a tiny market. The 350z was also $25,000 to start vs the 370 being 30,000. At 30,000 in a 350 you had a well appointed car for the coin.

The 2009 370z was now a $40,000 car well appointed. So the way packages were done, you were jumping into an extra $7,000 of car compared to a comparable Z 3 years earlier. That's over $100 a month payment. And as stated. It happened during a recessio.

I think the Z power is fine for what you get. I would love to see the more powerful turbo but power would be on the bottom of my complaints.
But America is mostly about horsepower wars so the Z once again narrows the customer base by being ultra niche.

The populous for our cars in this income bracket is dismal. But that's EXACTLY what makes the Z so special. Most problems are small in the solution but huge in the ideology of being a competitive sports car. And it's because Nissan ignores the small things. Irs why the Z still suffers in sales right now.

While I agree with you on a lot of points and the overall theme of your opinion, I disagree that it is today's poor man's sports car. Assuming with thinking about 2 seat coupes and not 2+2 (disqualifies BRZ/FRS), that pretty much puts the latest (ND) and last generation (NC) miata as the crown holder. Say what you want about it, but it's the most affordable sports car you can buy new in dedicated soft top or a hardtop/hybrid couple both countering regular and convertible Z.

You allude to it as well, but the Z is pretty pricey for the target market it is trying to appeal to, which is the affordable sports car buyer. Parts (maintenance and aftermarket), insurance, and fuel consumption do not favor it against other cars said buyer could choose instead.

Personally, I think 1-2 year old prices of these Zs are truly where the price market should have been new. I've purchased a new Z in the past (2010 sport+touring) and a 1 year old used Nismo (2016 tech). It's no surprise that I got way more car for nearly the same cash.

That's probably what hurts the Z the most. A lot of people in this segment have to make a choice rather than have multiple vehicles and lots of other choices have far more practicality, affordability, and/or power for around the same cash spent.

Keep in mind, I love my Z and I'm glad I was able to pick one up before they change from the traditional NA 6 cylinder coupe I find makes it different than my other cars (turbo hatch and a boosted miata coupe), therefore worth having to me.

Again, I agree with you on a lot of points, especially about cars having more than enough power for the street. I personally find any car below a 13Lbs/1HP ratio to be plenty fun for the street. My cars range from 7.9 to 12.8 at this point, so I have a good idea about what's probably too much to fully use around town.

I personally hope the Z evolves and continues to stay relatively attainable and a fun to drive. I find it hard to justify shelling out more than $50k for a loaded car, but I'm obviously spoiled by today's cheap speed options. :-)

laserbluemini · 12-09-2016, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zala

While I agree with you on a lot of points and the overall theme of your opinion, I disagree that it is today's poor man's sports car. Assuming with thinking about 2 seat coupes and not 2+2 (disqualifies BRZ/FRS), that pretty much puts the latest (ND) and last generation (NC) miata as the crown holder. Say what you want about it, but it's the most affordable sports car you can buy new in dedicated soft top or a hardtop/hybrid couple both countering regular and convertible Z.

You allude to it as well, but the Z is pretty pricey for the target market it is trying to appeal to, which is the affordable sports car buyer. Parts (maintenance and aftermarket), insurance, and fuel consumption do not favor it against other cars said buyer could choose instead.

Personally, I think 1-2 year old prices of these Zs are truly where the price market should have been new. I've purchased a new Z in the past (2010 sport+touring) and a 1 year old used Nismo (2016 tech). It's no surprise that I got way more car for nearly the same cash.

That's probably what hurts the Z the most. A lot of people in this segment have to make a choice rather than have multiple vehicles and lots of other choices have far more practicality, affordability, and/or power for around the same cash spent.

Keep in mind, I love my Z and I'm glad I was able to pick one up before they change from the traditional NA 6 cylinder coupe I find makes it different than my other cars (turbo hatch and a boosted miata coupe), therefore worth having to me.

Again, I agree with you on a lot of points, especially about cars having more than enough power for the street. I personally find any car below a 13Lbs/1HP ratio to be plenty fun for the street. My cars range from 7.9 to 12.8 at this point, so I have a good idea about what's probably too much to fully use around town.

I personally hope the Z evolves and continues to stay relatively attainable and a fun to drive. I find it hard to justify shelling out more than $50k for a loaded car, but I'm obviously spoiled by today's cheap speed options. :-)

i agree with your point on the hp/weight ratio idea. i personally find mashing full throttle on my beater csx more fun then the 370 because i dun have to worry about speeding. if i did that in the 370 i'd have my car tolled by the police and charged with stunt driving. however the 370 is superior in every single way to my beater.

I think if Nissan wants to follow the original fairlady concept then it would be too niche to be a big seller. It probably needs to upsize to become a 2+2 to compete in america, and increase the hp to compete with the camaros and mustangs. Then it will stray far away from the concept of a fairlady and lose the identity totally.

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Trips · 12-09-2016, 12:36 PM

Thread cleared of off topic posts.

jeritol · 12-09-2016, 01:17 PM

I agree with unknown 370 to a point. I bought a 2014 370Z base. A really good car for the money. The problem with sales is that Nissan and the dealers make no effort to market the car! Nissan had the 0% interest promotion on my Z but you had to scour the Website to find it. They run ads for Altimas and Maximas and Jokes with 0% but they don't even put a Z in the picture!
I called some dealers around here and most didn't know if they even had a Z or
where on the lot it was. The salesman for my Z said in 7 years he had never sold one and he was the Internet sales Manager! But look at it this way, I see dozens of Mustangs and Corvettes before I see another Z! A security guard where I work saw mine one morning and asked if it cost $100,000 or more.
WOW!

njobe89 · 12-09-2016, 01:53 PM

the z doesn't sell, it is what it is. my friend is a manager at nissan, before he was the manager he used to do sales. he sold cars for 5 years and in 5 years he said he sold 2 z's. nissan made the mistake of not updating the car and leaving it the same year in and year out.

Nithmo · 01-02-2017, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njobe89

the z doesn't sell, it is what it is. my friend is a manager at nissan, before he was the manager he used to do sales. he sold cars for 5 years and in 5 years he said he sold 2 z's. nissan made the mistake of not updating the car and leaving it the same year in and year out.

Just curious- is the dealership your friend works at in the middle of nowhere? Like, the South Pole, or the Galápagos Islands?

12-07-2016, 05:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14859	2+2 cars will always outsell 2 seaters.... And you gotta think. The Z is truly the poor man's "dedicated" sports car. Most people that shop in the Z price range are looking for practical or versatile performance. Most people whohave the income to buy a Proper Z with SP or Nismo. May not be able to buy tires, pads, and other types of real sports car maintenance. A car like the vette starts at a price where you have another tier of buyer. One that drives a nice car but is practical enough to want the most performance for the best money. If a higher tier purchaser is looking at the Z and the vette. He'll choose the vette. The Z represents a balance of car with a tiny market. The 350z was also $25,000 to start vs the 370 being 30,000. At 30,000 in a 350 you had a well appointed car for the coin. The 2009 370z was now a $40,000 car well appointed. So the way packages were done, you were jumping into an extra $7,000 of car compared to a comparable Z 3 years earlier. That's over $100 a month payment. And as stated. It happened during a recessio. I think the Z power is fine for what you get. I would love to see the more powerful turbo but power would be on the bottom of my complaints. But America is mostly about horsepower wars so the Z once again narrows the customer base by being ultra niche. The populous for our cars in this income bracket is dismal. But that's EXACTLY what makes the Z so special. Most problems are small in the solution but huge in the ideology of being a competitive sports car. And it's because Nissan ignores the small things. Irs why the Z still suffers in sales right now. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

12-09-2016, 12:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,732 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	Thread cleared of off topic posts. __________________

12-09-2016, 01:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
njobe89 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2014 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 5,227 Drives: 2013 370z BS 6MT Rep Power: 174285	the z doesn't sell, it is what it is. my friend is a manager at nissan, before he was the manager he used to do sales. he sold cars for 5 years and in 5 years he said he sold 2 z's. nissan made the mistake of not updating the car and leaving it the same year in and year out. __________________ 2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8 Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq

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12-06-2016, 12:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
mishuko A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: bouncin on tigga Posts: 8,062 Drives: '12 Z Rep Power: 9436	Everyone wants more power but at the end of the day can they use it all to the full potential? Eh 30k for 332hp can't complain. Can't find a better bargain dollar for hp around... well I guess the Mustang gt but everything else with higher numbers also are bigger tag and also things I don't want. Driving then is350 yesterday and it's a... boring drive lol

12-09-2016, 01:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
jeritol Base Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: North Georgia Posts: 9 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 12	I agree with unknown 370 to a point. I bought a 2014 370Z base. A really good car for the money. The problem with sales is that Nissan and the dealers make no effort to market the car! Nissan had the 0% interest promotion on my Z but you had to scour the Website to find it. They run ads for Altimas and Maximas and Jokes with 0% but they don't even put a Z in the picture! I called some dealers around here and most didn't know if they even had a Z or where on the lot it was. The salesman for my Z said in 7 years he had never sold one and he was the Internet sales Manager! But look at it this way, I see dozens of Mustangs and Corvettes before I see another Z! A security guard where I work saw mine one morning and asked if it cost $100,000 or more. WOW!