[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

b15 · 04-03-2015, 04:27 PM

It's perception and the Z can't seem to stray from the $30k range of buyers. Nothing wrong with that but it will forever limit how nice the Z can be. $30k is nothing nowadays. If Nissan put out a Z that was a nice step up from the Z34 in the $60k range loaded, I'd buy it as an alternative to the Cayman. Then have a stripped down entry version in the mid $30k for those who want a cheap car. This is the Mustang formula and it works. Sadly though this will never happen because the Z doesn't sell in volumes like the domestics, so I doubt well see multiple iterations. I'd be shocked if we see two engine options like the z32 days

b15 · 04-03-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

Just for comparison sake i found the window sticker for a 1990 300zx turbo

This is equal to about $60,000 in 2015.

6spd · 04-03-2015, 04:47 PM

What was the price of one the last year it was made. If the price stayed the same and didn't increase with inflation, then this subject is moot. I'm interested in this.

b15 · 04-03-2015, 04:49 PM

I think the pricing subject was moot a long time ago.

Z_ealot · 04-03-2015, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spd

What was the price of one the last year it was made. If the price stayed the same and didn't increase with inflation, then this subject is moot. I'm interested in this.

1995 300zx turbo with leather

UNKNOWN_370 · 04-03-2015, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15

It's perception and the Z can't seem to stray from the $30k range of buyers. Nothing wrong with that but it will forever limit how nice the Z can be. $30k is nothing nowadays. If Nissan put out a Z that was a nice step up from the Z34 in the $60k range loaded, I'd buy it as an alternative to the Cayman. Then have a stripped down entry version in the mid $30k for those who want a cheap car. This is the Mustang formula and it works. Sadly though this will never happen because the Z doesn't sell in volumes like the domestics, so I doubt well see multiple iterations. I'd be shocked if we see two engine options like the z32 days

The Z just won't survive that way. The only way t will work is if they do something dramatic like....

a) make huge changes to the car every year or two and raise the MSRP along with the changes...

Example:

2017 Z35 comes standard climate control and 6 way power seat for $35,000

2018 Z35 comes standard with dual zone climate control and 12 way power seat. $37,000.

2019 comes standard with leather and a bump of 20hp and standard homelink mirror. $40,000

2020 dramatic refresh... $42,000

nissan just can't bump the price meninglessly and without justifiable means.

Jordo! · 04-03-2015, 07:11 PM

^^^ That 60K equivalent price tag is also what killed the Z for many, many, years.

Nissan isn't going to do that again.

cautupwitdm · 04-03-2015, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bshields22

No way anyone is going to buy a Z35 for $60K as wonderful as these cars are and like everyone has already mentioned, your getting into another class of car for that amount.

Just some food for thought though...I've noticed some of these Z35 articles coming out of Australia, where the price for cars is about double then what is is here in the US. There may be some confusion with this $60K price tag floating around.

I think a lot of you are debating price based off of misinformation. I'm thinking Bshileds22 has something right here. I'm guessing the author of this article saw $60k in his research but didn't notice it is 60k AUS dollars which comes out to be about 45k-46k. Also I read where someone said they saw an article of the new Z weighing 1300 lbs. Again I think this is someone's failure to pay attention to the units of measurement. I am sure they meant to write 1300 kg or about 2886 lbs.

A 400-450 hp 3.0TT at 2900lbs for about 45k sounds very believable. This is based on a ton of speculation of course but I think this is more realistic and believable than a Z35 at 1300lb and 60k.

Actually here in an OOOLD article that matches some of the points I made.
Next Nissan Z scooped - motoring.com.au

Well since I am commenting I might as will throw in my hopes for what the next Z is so it stays relevant/competitive. I think they should definitely have 2 powertrain options. A turbo 4 cylinder, possibly the 2.0T Mercedes that has been suggested in other articles, with somewhere around 300HP @ 2900lbs would be a great frs/brz killer that could start around 25k that maxes out at 35k with sport and touring style packages. The other option could be a twin turbo 6 cylinder, again some articles suggest it would be a 3.0TT also be powered by Mercedes. Output could be north of 400HP @ 3100lbs allowing it to compete with the Mustang shopper. The price would need to stay around 35k base and max out around 45k with sport and touring packages. Maybe a Nismo version at 50-55k. Total speculation but just what I think should and could happen with the very limited info released so far.

Majorwoody · 04-03-2015, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

A little odd yes, but all the other window stickers i found were no where near the 65k that was claimed as the selling price of a supra turbo back in the 90's...most expensive i saw which had a leather package on it was i believe around 52k

I saw one on ebay a few days back. I was shocked myself but it was around the $60,000 plus sticker price. I'll find it later.

My post was more of an innocent question and I've learn something new..

BTW, while I was trying to look for that 60K plus Supra, I have ran into this Mk3....just for grins

http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/own-th...nvy-1609797631

shika805 · 04-04-2015, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

A Corvette Stingray is 500 hp and starts in the $50k range. If you push the Z into the $50k range without matching or exceeding the Corvette pound for pound, dollar for dollar, and hp for hp, it will last maybe as long as the Z32. If the Z ends up there, it's truly in the Corvette class, whether you want it to be or not - the cars are both two seat sports cars at that point, and you're not going to convert very many, if any, Corvette buyers. The demographic is too "BY MURICA FOR MURICA" to buy a Japanese two seat alternative.

On the other hand, if they do match or exceed it, then you provide a Nissan alternative to the GT-R for less money (500 hp range), and you'll find out how many people bought the GT-R because the Z didn't reach high enough for them. (I'll be willing to bet there are at least a few GT-R owners that would have a Z instead if it had 500 hp).

It's a dangerous place to be in and they have to be meticulously strategic with it.

The smartest thing you could possibly do with this car is find a way to make it a Camaro SS/Mustang GT/Challenger RT alternative (biggest chunk of the market) while retaining the Z formula. This means that 400-450hp at the same price point given all other things equal (weight from the Z34 for example) would be a larger hit than the Z34 on the market, especially if you gave it some sort of a backseat a la Z32.

They have to go where the market is for this car while still being unique.

That's why half of these reports are so freakin illogical. A Z with a turbo 4 by itself makes ZERO sense - why move the car to a smaller market (BRZ)? It only makes sense if it's one piece of the puzzle where a higher performance version is offered (turbo 6) because then the market coverage expands to a Camaro/Mustang alternative (multiple powertrains, lower cost of entry, high performance bargain). Those things only work if they meet competitors in the market. Sure a $25k turbo 4 Z makes a ton of sense only if the turbo 6 Z offered with it is in the $40k range (TOPS), not $60k.

yes! i agree! hell no to the 4 banger Z! Like i said, just revive the 240sx for a few years, and come back with bad'er better Z later when there is a market for it. They just came out with its third face lift 15 nismo. Relax nissan...

6spd · 04-04-2015, 04:34 PM

Another thing to consider is that at that time, there was no REAL domestic threats and the japanese manufacturers ran the show. Now there is a lot more competition, and a lot of that has vehicles ranging from lethargic slushboxes with v6's and no features for low 20's, to crazy HP decked out death traps for around 50K, and all the crap in between. It'd make sense for Nissan to follow suit, but we'll see.

Jordo! · 04-05-2015, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

A Corvette Stingray is 500 hp and starts in the $50k range. If you push the Z into the $50k range without matching or exceeding the Corvette pound for pound, dollar for dollar, and hp for hp, it will last maybe as long as the Z32. If the Z ends up there, it's truly in the Corvette class, whether you want it to be or not - the cars are both two seat sports cars at that point, and you're not going to convert very many, if any, Corvette buyers. The demographic is too "BY MURICA FOR MURICA" to buy a Japanese two seat alternative.

On the other hand, if they do match or exceed it, then you provide a Nissan alternative to the GT-R for less money (500 hp range), and you'll find out how many people bought the GT-R because the Z didn't reach high enough for them. (I'll be willing to bet there are at least a few GT-R owners that would have a Z instead if it had 500 hp).

It's a dangerous place to be in and they have to be meticulously strategic with it.

The smartest thing you could possibly do with this car is find a way to make it a Camaro SS/Mustang GT/Challenger RT alternative (biggest chunk of the market) while retaining the Z formula. This means that 400-450hp at the same price point given all other things equal (weight from the Z34 for example) would be a larger hit than the Z34 on the market, especially if you gave it some sort of a backseat a la Z32.

They have to go where the market is for this car while still being unique.

That's why half of these reports are so freakin illogical. A Z with a turbo 4 by itself makes ZERO sense - why move the car to a smaller market (BRZ)? It only makes sense if it's one piece of the puzzle where a higher performance version is offered (turbo 6) because then the market coverage expands to a Camaro/Mustang alternative (multiple powertrains, lower cost of entry, high performance bargain). Those things only work if they meet competitors in the market. Sure a $25k turbo 4 Z makes a ton of sense only if the turbo 6 Z offered with it is in the $40k range (TOPS), not $60k.

Very well said

As to the turbo 4, notwithstanding the lack of sales for the Gen coupe, the latest iteration of the Mustang has a turbo 4 as its midlevel option priced and making power greater than their 6 cyl (funnily enough, also a 3.7 ltr motor), but well below the V8.

I could see Nissan doing that: NA 6, turbo 4, turbo 6. That would be a nice range of options. If they did that, it could go $35K, $40K, $45K ballpark, and the hp could be, say, 350, 375, 400-425ish, respectively.

I think if they offered something like that -- kept the weight down, and the fit and finish looking sharp -- it would be a real hit with current Z fans and really give the pony car crowd something to seriously mull over.

I don't know what the hell Toyota is thinking regarding the FR-S. Its doomed to be an afterthought for someone considering a MX-5 if they don't give it a significant bump in power. A factory roots blower making another 60- 80 hp and tq right off idle would make that car PERFECT.

Vichtz · 04-05-2015, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKraken22

Well one i wouldnt want a base Z. Fully loaded please. and two your missing alot of things on that list. like Transmission work, built motor.

DEFINATELY don't need a built motor. It's not gonna hurt, but people make over 500 without touching internals. I added price of fuel pump and injectors into cost. Also, transmission not necessity but a z1 flywheel/clutch combo are always very reasonably priced. Even if you built the motor, you would get out for less than 60k. That's my point haha. Like everyone has always said I just hope there is a factory turbo option, otherwise 60k is gonna be a hard sell

UNKNOWN_370 · 04-05-2015, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Very well said

As to the turbo 4, notwithstanding the lack of sales for the Gen coupe, the latest iteration of the Mustang has a turbo 4 as its midlevel option priced and making power greater than their 6 cyl (funnily enough, also a 3.7 ltr motor), but well below the V8.

I could see Nissan doing that: NA 6, turbo 4, turbo 6. That would be a nice range of options. If they did that, it could go $35K, $40K, $45K ballpark, and the hp could be, say, 350, 375, 400-425ish, respectively.

I think if they offered something like that -- kept the weight down, and the fit and finish looking sharp -- it would be a real hit with current Z fans and really give the pony car crowd something to seriously mull over.

I don't know what the hell Toyota is thinking regarding the FR-S. Its doomed to be an afterthought for someone considering a MX-5 if they don't give it a significant bump in power. A factory roots blower making another 60- 80 hp and tq right off idle would make that car PERFECT.

Whose going to pay $35,000 for the heavily outdated VQ37? Not me... Time to move on

Houston Z33 · 04-05-2015, 11:09 PM

To touch back on the interior subject, Frankly the Z34 is just as "Luxurious" as a sports car needs to be - Only thing I can think of to add is A/C seats to the Coupe (why is this Roadster only?!)

Tech wise we're pretty damned outdated as well - Case in point....To this day we still need the Nav Package to stream BT Audio while the current Altima can stream it with no problem, without nav....My Wife's '15 Sonata Limited is mind blowing. The car damned near drives itself and it starts at 20k is about 30k fully dolled up like hers is.

Also, Hyundai BlueLink is BAD. ***. I really hope Nissan steps it's game up and adds something like this to it's lineup.

Power wise if we don't have 400+ HP, We're a failure - No questions asked....the V8s are kissing 450hp out the box nowadays.

IMO the 370Z was damned near perfect, it just needed more power.

04-03-2015, 04:27 PM	#166 (permalink)
b15 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,229 Drives: 4drz Rep Power: 36569	It's perception and the Z can't seem to stray from the $30k range of buyers. Nothing wrong with that but it will forever limit how nice the Z can be. $30k is nothing nowadays. If Nissan put out a Z that was a nice step up from the Z34 in the $60k range loaded, I'd buy it as an alternative to the Cayman. Then have a stripped down entry version in the mid $30k for those who want a cheap car. This is the Mustang formula and it works. Sadly though this will never happen because the Z doesn't sell in volumes like the domestics, so I doubt well see multiple iterations. I'd be shocked if we see two engine options like the z32 days Last edited by b15; 04-03-2015 at 04:29 PM.

04-03-2015, 04:47 PM	#168 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 23	What was the price of one the last year it was made. If the price stayed the same and didn't increase with inflation, then this subject is moot. I'm interested in this. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

04-03-2015, 07:11 PM	#172 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alfa 4C Posts: 6,394 Drives: The Ace of Spades Rep Power: 416	^^^ That 60K equivalent price tag is also what killed the Z for many, many, years. Nissan isn't going to do that again. UNKNOWN_370 and Houston Z33 like this. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

04-04-2015, 04:34 PM	#176 (permalink)
6spd A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,001 Drives: Q50RS Rep Power: 23	Another thing to consider is that at that time, there was no REAL domestic threats and the japanese manufacturers ran the show. Now there is a lot more competition, and a lot of that has vehicles ranging from lethargic slushboxes with v6's and no features for low 20's, to crazy HP decked out death traps for around 50K, and all the crap in between. It'd make sense for Nissan to follow suit, but we'll see. UNKNOWN_370, ZMan8 and Houston Z33 like this. __________________ -Jay- jonathanjamesphotographer.com

04-05-2015, 11:09 PM	#180 (permalink)
Houston Z33 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 57 Drives: Z34, 40th Anniv #524 Rep Power: 3366	To touch back on the interior subject, Frankly the Z34 is just as "Luxurious" as a sports car needs to be - Only thing I can think of to add is A/C seats to the Coupe (why is this Roadster only?!) Tech wise we're pretty damned outdated as well - Case in point....To this day we still need the Nav Package to stream BT Audio while the current Altima can stream it with no problem, without nav....My Wife's '15 Sonata Limited is mind blowing. The car damned near drives itself and it starts at 20k is about 30k fully dolled up like hers is. Also, Hyundai BlueLink is BAD. **. I really hope Nissan steps it's game up and adds something like this to it's lineup. Power wise if we don't have 400+ HP, We're a failure - No questions asked....the V8s are kissing 450hp out the box nowadays. IMO the 370Z was damned near perfect, it just needed more power. Last edited by Houston Z33; 04-05-2015 at 11:15 PM.*

04-03-2015, 04:49 PM	#169 (permalink)
b15 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,229 Drives: 4drz Rep Power: 36569	I think the pricing subject was moot a long time ago.

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