[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

ZHighlander · 06-16-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

I agree it is a great drivers' car. Pricing is not so great for the level of drivers car you get. The Miata (for most people) is arguably a better drivers' car for $10k less. People would also argue the BRZ is a better drivers' car than the Z... for $10k less. On the other side of that, many find it difficult to argue the level of driver's car you get in a Vette for less than $10k more than a NISMO.

Sure a Z is customizable to your liking. You can also modify a Camry to your liking. However, as far as performance goes? The Z is NOT cost effective to modify... for anything. Performance, cosmetics, nothing. It may be the most expensive Z for customization, ever.

I completely understand what the Z is about, however. Most, if not all, people here do. However, I have had 3 Z34s myself, and have been around Z cars for nearly 20 years... the Z34 is in a weird place compared to every Z before it as far as what it's trying to do and where it fits.

The S30 hung with a Vette for less than half the money. The Z32 twin turbo hung with a Vette for less money. The Z33 was a massive success despite what you may think about its styling - it sold in droves and helped reawaken the affordable sports car arena (they could be had in the $20k range new), because during that time period we saw a new S2000, RX-8, and the sales of those vehicles motivated GM and Ford to rethink the Camaro and Mustang, and those cars motivated Dodge to recreate the Challenger. It was a VERY relevant car.

Things have changed, and car buyers have changed. Z owners have changed. The benchmark for what a sports car should do for the money has changed, just as it has for the last 47 years of the Z's existence. You say some of us don't understand what a Z is all about. I say you don't understand what the Z is meant to be about and what it should become. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, but I think rather than interpreting this discussion as misunderstanding of what a Z is about, I think you're demonstrating a misunderstanding of the point.

The Z is a great car. All of them (save the awkward late 70s/early 80s years... this was also a time when shag carpet and doorway beads were fashionable). I worry Nissan doesn't have the balls to evolve this car the way it needs to be evolved to stay relevant in the market after this iteration.

I'd have to agree, although I love my 16 Nismo. But as far as bang for the buck, the Z right now is really not as competitive.

I was willing to pay the "premium" because I always wanted a Z and finally decided to go all out on one, loved the style of the new Nismo, and I didn't want to go Bodykit and too many aftermarket parts (mainly cuz I don't know what I'm doing).

As far as what I paid, I've been quite happy. Non-stop compliments, really fun to drive, and just feels great. But, again... premium.

For the price, you could get a lot more tech and relatively more performance with other competitors. If I were into muscle cars I would've considered the Camaro 2SS for the price range. Or for more luxury, comfort and tech I'd consider the Lexus RC 350 F Sport.

The Z really is a relatively niche market nowadays. Regardless, I also like the unique factor, at least in my area. Very rarely do I see another 370z, and even more rare is a 15/16 Nismo. If I happen to drive next to a Camaro, Lexus RC (or even RC F), Mustang GT, BRZ, etc., the spectators will usually be glued to my car instead, lol.

We have our reasons for loving the Z, and it's all valid. But lets also be realistic... it's really far from being competitive given all the other performance and tech that's available nowadays. Especially the Tech... you know what I mean when comparing interior and tech options compared to others. Yes, the Z is much more raw and feels great, but Screen controls and Backup cam really should be closer to standard options, and more modernized meters wouldn't hurt.

But with that said, performance shouldn't just be looked at with HP, as many tend to do. There are turns in the roads, and on tracks, and the Z's handling is absolutely phenomenal when it comes to that, and should be considered in the comparison.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-16-2016, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZHighlander

I'd have to agree, although I love my 16 Nismo. But as far as bang for the buck, the Z right now is really not as competitive.

I was willing to pay the "premium" because I always wanted a Z and finally decided to go all out on one, loved the style of the new Nismo, and I didn't want to go Bodykit and too many aftermarket parts (mainly cuz I don't know what I'm doing).

As far as what I paid, I've been quite happy. Non-stop compliments, really fun to drive, and just feels great. But, again... premium.

For the price, you could get a lot more tech and relatively more performance with other competitors. If I were into muscle cars I would've considered the Camaro 2SS for the price range. Or for more luxury, comfort and tech I'd consider the Lexus RC 350 F Sport.

The Z really is a relatively niche market nowadays. Regardless, I also like the unique factor, at least in my area. Very rarely do I see another 370z, and even more rare is a 15/16 Nismo. If I happen to drive next to a Camaro, Lexus RC (or even RC F), Mustang GT, BRZ, etc., the spectators will usually be glued to my car instead, lol.

We have our reasons for loving the Z, and it's all valid. But lets also be realistic... it's really far from being competitive given all the other performance and tech that's available nowadays. Especially the Tech... you know what I mean when comparing interior and tech options compared to others. Yes, the Z is much more raw and feels great, but Screen controls and Backup cam really should be closer to standard options, and more modernized meters wouldn't hurt.

But with that said, performance shouldn't just be looked at with HP, as many tend to do. There are turns in the roads, and on tracks, and the Z's handling is absolutely phenomenal when it comes to that, and should be considered in the comparison.

To your last line about Z handling. Absolutely. Everyone compares the Z to other cars. I could care less about the other cars. I just want another Z with the enhancements Nissan implied in 2012...Period.

MagmaRed370z · 06-16-2016, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

To your last line about Z handling. Absolutely. Everyone compares the Z to other cars. I could care less about the other cars. I just want another Z with the enhancements Nissan implied in 2012...Period.

Can you refresh my memory and advise on the "upgrades/enhancements" that Nissan implied in 2012? I don't recall.

Davey · 06-19-2016, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

To your last line about Z handling. Absolutely. Everyone compares the Z to other cars. I could care less about the other cars. I just want another Z with the enhancements Nissan implied in 2012...Period.

I would like a Z like the current Z with some enhancements like improved brake cooling, no fuel starvation, less intrusive Vehicle Stability Assistance mode, a Torsen diff, without having to resort to the aftermarket.

It could stand to be lighter, too.

Davey · 06-19-2016, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

I agree it is a great drivers' car. Pricing is not so great for the level of drivers car you get. The Miata (for most people) is arguably a better drivers' car for $10k less. People would also argue the BRZ is a better drivers' car than the Z... for $10k less. On the other side of that, many find it difficult to argue the level of driver's car you get in a Vette for less than $10k more than a NISMO.

You're stretching the dollars a little.

A Miata starts at $25K, the FR-S $26K, and the Z at 30K, rounding up. And, the Corvette starts at $55K, which is $13K more than the NISMO.

I don't know about you, but I'm not that comfortable throwing the word "only" in front of $13K when I'm talking about relatively useless depreciating assets like 2-seat cars that probably can't function as anything other than a weekend toy very effectively. Not that you did, but, point being, $10K is a lot of ******* money to most people.

Does a Z "do" 4K more than an FR-S? Or $5K more than a Miata?

Does a Z do everything you need for $23K less than a Corvette?

Is the NISMO worth $10K more than a base Z, even though it isn't actually faster?

These are subjective questions, but my answer is "Yes."

Further, consider the Cayman, which costs a little more than $20K more than the 370Z and has a slower 0-60 time. How can Porsche justify that kind of performance to dollar ratio? Why wouldn't you just buy a Corvette instead, for the same money? I guess *you* would, but I would not.

The Z needs to be improved, but it's still a good value vs. the Camaro and Mustang if you want a car that feels like a sports car and not a fat tub of V8 boat for your $30K (I've driven the new Mustang and it's great but it's no Z), given that you don't really care that you're a few 10ths slower in the quarter mile. It's still a good value compared to the Corvette and Cayman because it provides some of the experience of a powerful sports car for tens of thousands less. It's still a good value compared to the Miata and FR-S because it provides some of the experience of an inexpensive driver-focused car without being underpowered.

I'm not really sure what more you could expect for $30K.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-19-2016, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

You're stretching the dollars a little.

A Miata starts at $25K, the FR-S $26K, and the Z at 30K, rounding up. And, the Corvette starts at $55K, which is $13K more than the NISMO.

I don't know about you, but I'm not that comfortable throwing the word "only" in front of $13K when I'm talking about relatively useless depreciating assets like 2-seat cars that probably can't function as anything other than a weekend toy very effectively. Not that you did, but, point being, $10K is a lot of ******* money to most people.

Does a Z "do" 4K more than an FR-S? Or $5K more than a Miata?

Does a Z do everything you need for $23K less than a Corvette?

Is the NISMO worth $10K more than a base Z, even though it isn't actually faster?

These are subjective questions, but my answer is "Yes."

Further, consider the Cayman, which costs a little more than $20K more than the 370Z and has a slower 0-60 time. How can Porsche justify that kind of performance to dollar ratio? Why wouldn't you just buy a Corvette instead, for the same money? I guess *you* would, but I would not.

The Z needs to be improved, but it's still a good value vs. the Camaro and Mustang if you want a car that feels like a sports car and not a fat tub of V8 boat for your $30K (I've driven the new Mustang and it's great but it's no Z), given that you don't really care that you're a few 10ths slower in the quarter mile. It's still a good value compared to the Corvette and Cayman because it provides some of the experience of a powerful sports car for tens of thousands less. It's still a good value compared to the Miata and FR-S because it provides some of the experience of an inexpensive driver-focused car without being underpowered.

I'm not really sure what more you could expect for $30K.

I agree with every philosophy you speak of concerning the Z. In my opinion, the Z is a better performance value than people give it credit for. And I guess maybe at $30k. It is a good value.

But the real issue here are other aspects of the Z. Remember, us O.G.'s were haggling for the $30k before 2013 when Nissan decided to go back to 09 pricing. We saw nearly $33,000 as a base price.And up top the Nismo could lose about $3,000.

What I think the real issue here is at 3 and 6 years Nissan should have done more to update , materials and the gauge cowel to get smoothed out in a refresh. They had opportunities to add the foglight, upgrade the stereo with Bluetooth and USB, much earlier in the game. They could have tuned the exhaust. Also been more proactive with the CSC failure and a couple of other situations.

As sophomoric as this may sound.... Unfortunately, in a consumer driven society, car companies create the competitive edge with there advertising and engineering claims. It's what sells sports cars. Nissan is playing in a very competitive segment. We'd like to see updates if we're not going to get a new sports car in the traditional 6 year life cycle.

Another thing is. Even though we get Mr. Myagi news from nissan. We don't get the type of news that keeps the consumer excited about the brand.
Loyalists and enthusiasts want to be tantalized. They want to know their car company is working hard at that next level driving experience. Nissan only does that for GT-R and leaf owners. Even Juke owners get more enthusiast attention than we do. Not cool.

This kind of sways people to seeing the Z worse than it is. Because everyone else's car companies engage with them on any financial level. Chevy, Ford, BMW, Dodge, Mercedes, etc. All are creating excitement and buzz and they all have cars in the same price arena as our Z's.

Old heads are ready for the next level. We've been in a Z34 a Looooong Time.

FPenvy · 06-15-2016, 08:01 PM

Honestly the pricing doesn't matter. The real question here is will there be a new model

edk370 · 06-15-2016, 11:40 PM

The Z through all its generations never had a dud like the Mazda RX8; the late 90s to early 2000s Mustangs (even the 4.6 wasn't all that then); the Eclipse after they did away with the turbo motor; and lots of other cars that were supposed to carry the torch in subsequent generations....The only car that never missed, and always won praise, is the Mazda Miata. Critics love this car, through all its generations.

Back on topic. I think the Z35 will get the 3.0 V6 twin turbo. I mean think about it. How can Nissan let diehard Z fans down. I think Nissan will make it as quick as a stock V8 Mustang or Camaro...and the rest is up to you to tune.....I think the Z35 will be a pleasant surprise. That's why I say save up for it so you can get it when it comes out. It will be somewhat more expensive, but worth it.

....I think it'll target the BMW M2 for competition. We will see.

NRTim · 06-16-2016, 09:03 AM

Sad there's no info on a 370Z successor

My head is telling me R32 GTR but my heart is telling me to wait it out for a Z35 with the TT V6 engine if there is gonna be one......

RicerX · 06-16-2016, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edk370

....I think it'll target the BMW M2 for competition. We will see.

The only thing that makes sense for them to do in the grand scheme of things when you consider pricing and market conditions is build a smaller/lighter Z, toss in the 300hp version of the motor, and leave the M2 to a performance variant of the upcoming Q60. The Q60 is lower, lighter, and shorter than the outgoing G37/Q60 coupe - it won't be as small as the M2, but it will be close.

Think about it - why not rock out a $35k Z that could take a few bits from Cobb and be at 400hp for less than $40k and roast the Mustang and Camaro? Build the car with a solid foundation and the tuner crowd that loves the Z will come out in droves and buy it.

The Z is already a slow seller at $40k. Magically pricing it at $60k with the same power output as cars that cost $40k will kill it, no matter how good the chassis or driving experience is. At least... not on a Nissan nameplate. (I'm looking at you, Porsche Cayman - somehow, you sell doing what you do). The Nissan (or Infiniti brand, as of yet) don't have the level of prestige to make that work. The GT-R is a tad of an anomaly here, but not an extreme one.

RicerX · 06-16-2016, 09:59 AM

I'm likely doing one of two things -

1) Keeping my 2015 Q50, paying it off, and buying an R33 or R34 to toss into the garage.
2) If Infiniti adds a dual clutch and LSD to the Red Sport at the full mid-cycle refresh of the Q50, I'm just buying that and keeping it forever. The Q50 is a solid vehicle as long as you skip the electric steering. I have always been a manual purist, but I haven't had an automatic since my Chevy Cavalier, and I gotta say, the Jatco 7AT in the G/Z/Q50 is a pretty decent transmission.

A 400hp Red Sport with a dual clutch... NOM NOM.

brucelidat · 06-18-2016, 11:14 AM

I'm expecting the 300hp tt engine in the normal z maybe tuned up slightly and the 400hp in the Nismo. I am hoping this 400hp nismo is about the same price as the nismo now and has more storage so I can use it for work occasionally (have a big luggage sized case of equipment I carry to jobs). Oh yeah, and I hope the Nismo looks nice and not too over the top boy racer. I like the current one a lot.

VidkidZ · 06-18-2016, 08:42 PM

With Nissan marketing pushing the 370z as the ultimate drifting car, its clear that the q60 platform and its drive by wire system isn't up to what makes a Z. Maybe next year.

RicerX · 06-18-2016, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VidkidZ

With Nissan marketing pushing the 370z as the ultimate drifting car, its clear that the q60 platform and its drive by wire system isn't up to what makes a Z. Maybe next year.

... So you've driven a car that's not out yet? Please share some details!

I'm also going to assume you mean steer by wire. Your Z is drive by wire, just like most vehicles. The steer by wire system is optional, and by all means, if anyone ever drives the new Q50 or Q60, skip that garbage. It's not ready for prime time just yet.

Godzilla35 · 06-20-2016, 01:42 AM

^exactly... I am hoping with a new Z platform, Nissan can bring some excitement back to the brand. When Scion dropped the FRS, they treated first few of us extremely well. Even gave us hotel rooms and passes to SEMA. With the likes of Chris Forsberg and other Nissan Racing drivers, you would think that they would push to "leak" some tidbits, but all I hear is that we aren't getting the iDX anymore (bummer as I thought the NISMO version had potential)... I even heard rumors that it was based on a 240SX wheelbase (I need a drift car Nissan are you listening???) haha...

In any case. If they add weight, which let's be honest, is generally speaking a trend nowadays... the 400hp mark for the standard model doesn't seem to be a big stretch to me. Maybe they will have a 250-300hp "base" model but if they don't bring 400hp to the table, who are they competing with then? Rumors say the new Genesis will even have more than 300hp+...

Please. Insiders. Anyone. ... there has to be SOME info around? I am from the GTR crowd so I know that the GTR is set for the next gen and it is in development (the R35 platform is maxed out). One would think the Z would have more hub-hub since it is a presumably better selling / more accessible car....?....

06-18-2016, 11:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
brucelidat A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: temple city, ca Posts: 2,432 Drives: 2011 370z 7AT GM Sp Rep Power: 32	I'm expecting the 300hp tt engine in the normal z maybe tuned up slightly and the 400hp in the Nismo. I am hoping this 400hp nismo is about the same price as the nismo now and has more storage so I can use it for work occasionally (have a big luggage sized case of equipment I carry to jobs). Oh yeah, and I hope the Nismo looks nice and not too over the top boy racer. I like the current one a lot. __________________ Works Emotion CR Ultimate - FI CBE w/ 18" resonators - Ecutek - eibach sways - Quaife - FI LTH w/race cats - kw v3 - spl - Topgunz SC - 488whp 398trq

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06-15-2016, 11:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
edk370 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: So Cal Posts: 296 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 13	The Z through all its generations never had a dud like the Mazda RX8; the late 90s to early 2000s Mustangs (even the 4.6 wasn't all that then); the Eclipse after they did away with the turbo motor; and lots of other cars that were supposed to carry the torch in subsequent generations....The only car that never missed, and always won praise, is the Mazda Miata. Critics love this car, through all its generations. Back on topic. I think the Z35 will get the 3.0 V6 twin turbo. I mean think about it. How can Nissan let diehard Z fans down. I think Nissan will make it as quick as a stock V8 Mustang or Camaro...and the rest is up to you to tune.....I think the Z35 will be a pleasant surprise. That's why I say save up for it so you can get it when it comes out. It will be somewhat more expensive, but worth it. ....I think it'll target the BMW M2 for competition. We will see.

06-16-2016, 09:03 AM	#9 (permalink)
NRTim Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nowhere,TX Age: 39 Posts: 131 Drives: 2017 ??? Rep Power: 17	Sad there's no info on a 370Z successor My head is telling me R32 GTR but my heart is telling me to wait it out for a Z35 with the TT V6 engine if there is gonna be one......

06-16-2016, 09:59 AM	#11 (permalink)
RicerX Track Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: TN Posts: 597 Drives: To the Pizza joint. Rep Power: 7721	I'm likely doing one of two things - 1) Keeping my 2015 Q50, paying it off, and buying an R33 or R34 to toss into the garage. 2) If Infiniti adds a dual clutch and LSD to the Red Sport at the full mid-cycle refresh of the Q50, I'm just buying that and keeping it forever. The Q50 is a solid vehicle as long as you skip the electric steering. I have always been a manual purist, but I haven't had an automatic since my Chevy Cavalier, and I gotta say, the Jatco 7AT in the G/Z/Q50 is a pretty decent transmission. A 400hp Red Sport with a dual clutch... NOM NOM.

06-18-2016, 08:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
VidkidZ Base Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 6 Drives: 09 Touring 7AT Rep Power: 10	With Nissan marketing pushing the 370z as the ultimate drifting car, its clear that the q60 platform and its drive by wire system isn't up to what makes a Z. Maybe next year.

06-20-2016, 01:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
Godzilla35 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: LA / SD Posts: 17 Drives: 04 G35 coupe 5AT Rep Power: 16	^exactly... I am hoping with a new Z platform, Nissan can bring some excitement back to the brand. When Scion dropped the FRS, they treated first few of us extremely well. Even gave us hotel rooms and passes to SEMA. With the likes of Chris Forsberg and other Nissan Racing drivers, you would think that they would push to "leak" some tidbits, but all I hear is that we aren't getting the iDX anymore (bummer as I thought the NISMO version had potential)... I even heard rumors that it was based on a 240SX wheelbase (I need a drift car Nissan are you listening???) haha... In any case. If they add weight, which let's be honest, is generally speaking a trend nowadays... the 400hp mark for the standard model doesn't seem to be a big stretch to me. Maybe they will have a 250-300hp "base" model but if they don't bring 400hp to the table, who are they competing with then? Rumors say the new Genesis will even have more than 300hp+... Please. Insiders. Anyone. ... there has to be SOME info around? I am from the GTR crowd so I know that the GTR is set for the next gen and it is in development (the R35 platform is maxed out). One would think the Z would have more hub-hub since it is a presumably better selling / more accessible car....?....