[OFFICIAL] Discussion for the next new Nissan 400Z Z35?

RicerX · 06-16-2016, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooler

WOW, it seems some of you guys don't understand what a Z is all about. It is a no frills driver car that is a great driving experience for a great price. The 300zxtt went way above that at a cost too. Z's have always been mod friendly so you can customize them to your own liking. The 350z was a good try but totally missed the styling of a Z. I never liked them. I would personally like to see a through back design more like a 240z of the new age. The 370z is close to that. Anyway, whatever. I love what I have and don't see changing anytime soon.

I agree it is a great drivers' car. Pricing is not so great for the level of drivers car you get. The Miata (for most people) is arguably a better drivers' car for $10k less. People would also argue the BRZ is a better drivers' car than the Z... for $10k less. On the other side of that, many find it difficult to argue the level of driver's car you get in a Vette for less than $10k more than a NISMO.

Sure a Z is customizable to your liking. You can also modify a Camry to your liking. However, as far as performance goes? The Z is NOT cost effective to modify... for anything. Performance, cosmetics, nothing. It may be the most expensive Z for customization, ever.

I completely understand what the Z is about, however. Most, if not all, people here do. However, I have had 3 Z34s myself, and have been around Z cars for nearly 20 years... the Z34 is in a weird place compared to every Z before it as far as what it's trying to do and where it fits.

The S30 hung with a Vette for less than half the money. The Z32 twin turbo hung with a Vette for less money. The Z33 was a massive success despite what you may think about its styling - it sold in droves and helped reawaken the affordable sports car arena (they could be had in the $20k range new), because during that time period we saw a new S2000, RX-8, and the sales of those vehicles motivated GM and Ford to rethink the Camaro and Mustang, and those cars motivated Dodge to recreate the Challenger. It was a VERY relevant car.

Things have changed, and car buyers have changed. Z owners have changed. The benchmark for what a sports car should do for the money has changed, just as it has for the last 47 years of the Z's existence. You say some of us don't understand what a Z is all about. I say you don't understand what the Z is meant to be about and what it should become. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, but I think rather than interpreting this discussion as misunderstanding of what a Z is about, I think you're demonstrating a misunderstanding of the point.

The Z is a great car. All of them (save the awkward late 70s/early 80s years... this was also a time when shag carpet and doorway beads were fashionable). I worry Nissan doesn't have the balls to evolve this car the way it needs to be evolved to stay relevant in the market after this iteration.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-16-2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

I agree it is a great drivers' car. Pricing is not so great for the level of drivers car you get. The Miata (for most people) is arguably a better drivers' car for $10k less. People would also argue the BRZ is a better drivers' car than the Z... for $10k less. On the other side of that, many find it difficult to argue the level of driver's car you get in a Vette for less than $10k more than a NISMO.

Sure a Z is customizable to your liking. You can also modify a Camry to your liking. However, as far as performance goes? The Z is NOT cost effective to modify... for anything. Performance, cosmetics, nothing. It may be the most expensive Z for customization, ever.

I completely understand what the Z is about, however. Most, if not all, people here do. However, I have had 3 Z34s myself, and have been around Z cars for nearly 20 years... the Z34 is in a weird place compared to every Z before it as far as what it's trying to do and where it fits.

The S30 hung with a Vette for less than half the money. The Z32 twin turbo hung with a Vette for less money. The Z33 was a massive success despite what you may think about its styling - it sold in droves and helped reawaken the affordable sports car arena (they could be had in the $20k range new), because during that time period we saw a new S2000, RX-8, and the sales of those vehicles motivated GM and Ford to rethink the Camaro and Mustang, and those cars motivated Dodge to recreate the Challenger. It was a VERY relevant car.

Things have changed, and car buyers have changed. Z owners have changed. The benchmark for what a sports car should do for the money has changed, just as it has for the last 47 years of the Z's existence. You say some of us don't understand what a Z is all about. I say you don't understand what the Z is meant to be about and what it should become. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, but I think rather than interpreting this discussion as misunderstanding of what a Z is about, I think you're demonstrating a misunderstanding of the point.

The Z is a great car. All of them (save the awkward late 70s/early 80s years... this was also a time when shag carpet and doorway beads were fashionable). I worry Nissan doesn't have the balls to evolve this car the way it needs to be evolved to stay relevant in the market after this iteration.

I didn't see who wrote this first. I should've known. Well said bruh!!!

killrain · 06-16-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

I agree it is a great drivers' car. Pricing is not so great for the level of drivers car you get. The Miata (for most people) is arguably a better drivers' car for $10k less. People would also argue the BRZ is a better drivers' car than the Z... for $10k less. On the other side of that, many find it difficult to argue the level of driver's car you get in a Vette for less than $10k more than a NISMO.

Sure a Z is customizable to your liking. You can also modify a Camry to your liking. However, as far as performance goes? The Z is NOT cost effective to modify... for anything. Performance, cosmetics, nothing. It may be the most expensive Z for customization, ever.

I completely understand what the Z is about, however. Most, if not all, people here do. However, I have had 3 Z34s myself, and have been around Z cars for nearly 20 years... the Z34 is in a weird place compared to every Z before it as far as what it's trying to do and where it fits.

The S30 hung with a Vette for less than half the money. The Z32 twin turbo hung with a Vette for less money. The Z33 was a massive success despite what you may think about its styling - it sold in droves and helped reawaken the affordable sports car arena (they could be had in the $20k range new), because during that time period we saw a new S2000, RX-8, and the sales of those vehicles motivated GM and Ford to rethink the Camaro and Mustang, and those cars motivated Dodge to recreate the Challenger. It was a VERY relevant car.

Things have changed, and car buyers have changed. Z owners have changed. The benchmark for what a sports car should do for the money has changed, just as it has for the last 47 years of the Z's existence. You say some of us don't understand what a Z is all about. I say you don't understand what the Z is meant to be about and what it should become. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, but I think rather than interpreting this discussion as misunderstanding of what a Z is about, I think you're demonstrating a misunderstanding of the point.

The Z is a great car. All of them (save the awkward late 70s/early 80s years... this was also a time when shag carpet and doorway beads were fashionable). I worry Nissan doesn't have the balls to evolve this car the way it needs to be evolved to stay relevant in the market after this iteration.

ZHighlander · 06-16-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

I agree it is a great drivers' car. Pricing is not so great for the level of drivers car you get. The Miata (for most people) is arguably a better drivers' car for $10k less. People would also argue the BRZ is a better drivers' car than the Z... for $10k less. On the other side of that, many find it difficult to argue the level of driver's car you get in a Vette for less than $10k more than a NISMO.

Sure a Z is customizable to your liking. You can also modify a Camry to your liking. However, as far as performance goes? The Z is NOT cost effective to modify... for anything. Performance, cosmetics, nothing. It may be the most expensive Z for customization, ever.

I completely understand what the Z is about, however. Most, if not all, people here do. However, I have had 3 Z34s myself, and have been around Z cars for nearly 20 years... the Z34 is in a weird place compared to every Z before it as far as what it's trying to do and where it fits.

The S30 hung with a Vette for less than half the money. The Z32 twin turbo hung with a Vette for less money. The Z33 was a massive success despite what you may think about its styling - it sold in droves and helped reawaken the affordable sports car arena (they could be had in the $20k range new), because during that time period we saw a new S2000, RX-8, and the sales of those vehicles motivated GM and Ford to rethink the Camaro and Mustang, and those cars motivated Dodge to recreate the Challenger. It was a VERY relevant car.

Things have changed, and car buyers have changed. Z owners have changed. The benchmark for what a sports car should do for the money has changed, just as it has for the last 47 years of the Z's existence. You say some of us don't understand what a Z is all about. I say you don't understand what the Z is meant to be about and what it should become. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase, but I think rather than interpreting this discussion as misunderstanding of what a Z is about, I think you're demonstrating a misunderstanding of the point.

The Z is a great car. All of them (save the awkward late 70s/early 80s years... this was also a time when shag carpet and doorway beads were fashionable). I worry Nissan doesn't have the balls to evolve this car the way it needs to be evolved to stay relevant in the market after this iteration.

I'd have to agree, although I love my 16 Nismo. But as far as bang for the buck, the Z right now is really not as competitive.

I was willing to pay the "premium" because I always wanted a Z and finally decided to go all out on one, loved the style of the new Nismo, and I didn't want to go Bodykit and too many aftermarket parts (mainly cuz I don't know what I'm doing).

As far as what I paid, I've been quite happy. Non-stop compliments, really fun to drive, and just feels great. But, again... premium.

For the price, you could get a lot more tech and relatively more performance with other competitors. If I were into muscle cars I would've considered the Camaro 2SS for the price range. Or for more luxury, comfort and tech I'd consider the Lexus RC 350 F Sport.

The Z really is a relatively niche market nowadays. Regardless, I also like the unique factor, at least in my area. Very rarely do I see another 370z, and even more rare is a 15/16 Nismo. If I happen to drive next to a Camaro, Lexus RC (or even RC F), Mustang GT, BRZ, etc., the spectators will usually be glued to my car instead, lol.

We have our reasons for loving the Z, and it's all valid. But lets also be realistic... it's really far from being competitive given all the other performance and tech that's available nowadays. Especially the Tech... you know what I mean when comparing interior and tech options compared to others. Yes, the Z is much more raw and feels great, but Screen controls and Backup cam really should be closer to standard options, and more modernized meters wouldn't hurt.

But with that said, performance shouldn't just be looked at with HP, as many tend to do. There are turns in the roads, and on tracks, and the Z's handling is absolutely phenomenal when it comes to that, and should be considered in the comparison.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-16-2016, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZHighlander

I'd have to agree, although I love my 16 Nismo. But as far as bang for the buck, the Z right now is really not as competitive.

I was willing to pay the "premium" because I always wanted a Z and finally decided to go all out on one, loved the style of the new Nismo, and I didn't want to go Bodykit and too many aftermarket parts (mainly cuz I don't know what I'm doing).

As far as what I paid, I've been quite happy. Non-stop compliments, really fun to drive, and just feels great. But, again... premium.

For the price, you could get a lot more tech and relatively more performance with other competitors. If I were into muscle cars I would've considered the Camaro 2SS for the price range. Or for more luxury, comfort and tech I'd consider the Lexus RC 350 F Sport.

The Z really is a relatively niche market nowadays. Regardless, I also like the unique factor, at least in my area. Very rarely do I see another 370z, and even more rare is a 15/16 Nismo. If I happen to drive next to a Camaro, Lexus RC (or even RC F), Mustang GT, BRZ, etc., the spectators will usually be glued to my car instead, lol.

We have our reasons for loving the Z, and it's all valid. But lets also be realistic... it's really far from being competitive given all the other performance and tech that's available nowadays. Especially the Tech... you know what I mean when comparing interior and tech options compared to others. Yes, the Z is much more raw and feels great, but Screen controls and Backup cam really should be closer to standard options, and more modernized meters wouldn't hurt.

But with that said, performance shouldn't just be looked at with HP, as many tend to do. There are turns in the roads, and on tracks, and the Z's handling is absolutely phenomenal when it comes to that, and should be considered in the comparison.

To your last line about Z handling. Absolutely. Everyone compares the Z to other cars. I could care less about the other cars. I just want another Z with the enhancements Nissan implied in 2012...Period.

MagmaRed370z · 06-16-2016, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

To your last line about Z handling. Absolutely. Everyone compares the Z to other cars. I could care less about the other cars. I just want another Z with the enhancements Nissan implied in 2012...Period.

Can you refresh my memory and advise on the "upgrades/enhancements" that Nissan implied in 2012? I don't recall.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-17-2016, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schellingr

Can you refresh my memory and advise on the "upgrades/enhancements" that Nissan implied in 2012? I don't recall.

They implied a car is closer to the original Z in weight, design and handling. A car that's more versatile with a bigger trunk for better grand touring capability while maintaining a true sports car feel. They said they were looking into offering different engine options to cater to more customers around and offering a benchmark in modern technology. That's what was said in Jay Leno's garage.

Z_ealot · 06-17-2016, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

They implied a car is closer to the original Z in weight, design and handling. A car that's more versatile with a bigger trunk for better grand touring capability while maintaining a true sports car feel. They said they were looking into offering different engine options to cater to more customers around and offering a benchmark in modern technology. That's what was said in Jay Leno's garage.

Yeah, that was until the bean counters saw that video and probably chastised shiro nakamura for speaking out of line lol

Godzilla35 · 06-18-2016, 01:43 AM

a lot has changed since that video though...

The iDX got cancelled. The FRS didn't do that well (fair for me to say, I DD one). I've been out of the G/Z scene for awhile (sold my 04 back in 2010ish). But I am gonna take a wild guess and say the Z will be akin to this...?...

2017 Infiniti Q60 Luxury Coupe | Infiniti USA

I sincerely hope it doesn't take too many styling cues from this because it isn't my cup of tea. But the engine sounds like a natural progression... V6TT to make it relateable to the GTR at 400hp, but not encroaching on Nissan's halo car prowess...

The one thing I hope that they take away from the iDX + FRS + oldschool Datsun "anniversary" idea is lighter weight. I drift now and I realize how heavy my G was and what a big difference that makes. Straight line is great but I hope that the handling is drastically improved.

Davey · 06-19-2016, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

To your last line about Z handling. Absolutely. Everyone compares the Z to other cars. I could care less about the other cars. I just want another Z with the enhancements Nissan implied in 2012...Period.

I would like a Z like the current Z with some enhancements like improved brake cooling, no fuel starvation, less intrusive Vehicle Stability Assistance mode, a Torsen diff, without having to resort to the aftermarket.

It could stand to be lighter, too.

Davey · 06-19-2016, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RicerX

I agree it is a great drivers' car. Pricing is not so great for the level of drivers car you get. The Miata (for most people) is arguably a better drivers' car for $10k less. People would also argue the BRZ is a better drivers' car than the Z... for $10k less. On the other side of that, many find it difficult to argue the level of driver's car you get in a Vette for less than $10k more than a NISMO.

You're stretching the dollars a little.

A Miata starts at $25K, the FR-S $26K, and the Z at 30K, rounding up. And, the Corvette starts at $55K, which is $13K more than the NISMO.

I don't know about you, but I'm not that comfortable throwing the word "only" in front of $13K when I'm talking about relatively useless depreciating assets like 2-seat cars that probably can't function as anything other than a weekend toy very effectively. Not that you did, but, point being, $10K is a lot of ******* money to most people.

Does a Z "do" 4K more than an FR-S? Or $5K more than a Miata?

Does a Z do everything you need for $23K less than a Corvette?

Is the NISMO worth $10K more than a base Z, even though it isn't actually faster?

These are subjective questions, but my answer is "Yes."

Further, consider the Cayman, which costs a little more than $20K more than the 370Z and has a slower 0-60 time. How can Porsche justify that kind of performance to dollar ratio? Why wouldn't you just buy a Corvette instead, for the same money? I guess *you* would, but I would not.

The Z needs to be improved, but it's still a good value vs. the Camaro and Mustang if you want a car that feels like a sports car and not a fat tub of V8 boat for your $30K (I've driven the new Mustang and it's great but it's no Z), given that you don't really care that you're a few 10ths slower in the quarter mile. It's still a good value compared to the Corvette and Cayman because it provides some of the experience of a powerful sports car for tens of thousands less. It's still a good value compared to the Miata and FR-S because it provides some of the experience of an inexpensive driver-focused car without being underpowered.

I'm not really sure what more you could expect for $30K.

UNKNOWN_370 · 06-19-2016, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

You're stretching the dollars a little.

A Miata starts at $25K, the FR-S $26K, and the Z at 30K, rounding up. And, the Corvette starts at $55K, which is $13K more than the NISMO.

I don't know about you, but I'm not that comfortable throwing the word "only" in front of $13K when I'm talking about relatively useless depreciating assets like 2-seat cars that probably can't function as anything other than a weekend toy very effectively. Not that you did, but, point being, $10K is a lot of ******* money to most people.

Does a Z "do" 4K more than an FR-S? Or $5K more than a Miata?

Does a Z do everything you need for $23K less than a Corvette?

Is the NISMO worth $10K more than a base Z, even though it isn't actually faster?

These are subjective questions, but my answer is "Yes."

Further, consider the Cayman, which costs a little more than $20K more than the 370Z and has a slower 0-60 time. How can Porsche justify that kind of performance to dollar ratio? Why wouldn't you just buy a Corvette instead, for the same money? I guess *you* would, but I would not.

The Z needs to be improved, but it's still a good value vs. the Camaro and Mustang if you want a car that feels like a sports car and not a fat tub of V8 boat for your $30K (I've driven the new Mustang and it's great but it's no Z), given that you don't really care that you're a few 10ths slower in the quarter mile. It's still a good value compared to the Corvette and Cayman because it provides some of the experience of a powerful sports car for tens of thousands less. It's still a good value compared to the Miata and FR-S because it provides some of the experience of an inexpensive driver-focused car without being underpowered.

I'm not really sure what more you could expect for $30K.

I agree with every philosophy you speak of concerning the Z. In my opinion, the Z is a better performance value than people give it credit for. And I guess maybe at $30k. It is a good value.

But the real issue here are other aspects of the Z. Remember, us O.G.'s were haggling for the $30k before 2013 when Nissan decided to go back to 09 pricing. We saw nearly $33,000 as a base price.And up top the Nismo could lose about $3,000.

What I think the real issue here is at 3 and 6 years Nissan should have done more to update , materials and the gauge cowel to get smoothed out in a refresh. They had opportunities to add the foglight, upgrade the stereo with Bluetooth and USB, much earlier in the game. They could have tuned the exhaust. Also been more proactive with the CSC failure and a couple of other situations.

As sophomoric as this may sound.... Unfortunately, in a consumer driven society, car companies create the competitive edge with there advertising and engineering claims. It's what sells sports cars. Nissan is playing in a very competitive segment. We'd like to see updates if we're not going to get a new sports car in the traditional 6 year life cycle.

Another thing is. Even though we get Mr. Myagi news from nissan. We don't get the type of news that keeps the consumer excited about the brand.
Loyalists and enthusiasts want to be tantalized. They want to know their car company is working hard at that next level driving experience. Nissan only does that for GT-R and leaf owners. Even Juke owners get more enthusiast attention than we do. Not cool.

This kind of sways people to seeing the Z worse than it is. Because everyone else's car companies engage with them on any financial level. Chevy, Ford, BMW, Dodge, Mercedes, etc. All are creating excitement and buzz and they all have cars in the same price arena as our Z's.

Old heads are ready for the next level. We've been in a Z34 a Looooong Time.

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06-18-2016, 01:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
Godzilla35 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: LA / SD Posts: 17 Drives: 04 G35 coupe 5AT Rep Power: 16	a lot has changed since that video though... The iDX got cancelled. The FRS didn't do that well (fair for me to say, I DD one). I've been out of the G/Z scene for awhile (sold my 04 back in 2010ish). But I am gonna take a wild guess and say the Z will be akin to this...?... 2017 Infiniti Q60 Luxury Coupe \| Infiniti USA I sincerely hope it doesn't take too many styling cues from this because it isn't my cup of tea. But the engine sounds like a natural progression... V6TT to make it relateable to the GTR at 400hp, but not encroaching on Nissan's halo car prowess... The one thing I hope that they take away from the iDX + FRS + oldschool Datsun "anniversary" idea is lighter weight. I drift now and I realize how heavy my G was and what a big difference that makes. Straight line is great but I hope that the handling is drastically improved.